news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

43 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

one thing I found out recently is how in the 40s the labour left were the zionists, and Bevan was considered a massive antisemite.

anti-semetism was such a standard thing thru the ages  that it was an engrained thought in uk society - with a lot of encouragement from the church which wasn't keen on "heathens". so you shouldn't be surprised to find it anywhere!

[Neil]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I guess means don't go waving a Palestine flag in a Jewish area where could provoke trouble.

looks like skippy is being obtuse about things cos he's picked his side. and everyone else are evil imperialists.

[Skip997]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

looks like skippy is being obtuse about things cos he's picked his side. and everyone else are evil imperialists.

To some extent yes.

But I do have serious concerns about the implications of arresting someone for holding a flag.

Anyone likely to get arrested for holding an Israeli flag, regardless of where or in what circumstances?

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

ut I do have serious concerns about the implications of arresting someone for holding a flag.

i do but in most cases they'd be doing it to be provocative, and could quite reasonably put someone in fear for their life.

[steviewevie]

46 minutes ago, Neil said:

anti-semetism was such a standard thing thru the ages  that it was an engrained thought in uk society - with a lot of encouragement from the church which wasn't keen on "heathens". so you shouldn't be surprised to find it anywhere!

the left switched to antisemitism after 67 war when Israel occupation expanded...and zionism was accused of being racist and imperialist....and Israel did start becoming more right wing and revisionist Likud started winning power. The 48 and then 67 wars were both disasters for the Palestinians.

[Skip997]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Benjamin Franklin

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

The 48 and then 67 wars were both disasters for the Palestinians.

everything has been a disaster for the palestinians.

 

they do best when they do nothing.

[steviewevie]

37 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Anyone likely to get arrested for holding an Israeli flag, regardless of where or in what circumstances?

I imagine so. There are far more pro palestine protests though, big ones planned for next weekend. There was a big Israel vigil in Manchester a few days ago...that had a huge amount of police there....for protection more than anything.

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

I imagine so. There are far more pro palestine protests though, big ones planned for next weekend. There was a big Israel vigil in Manchester a few days ago...that had a huge amount of police there....for protection more than anything.

be a shame if some individuals decided to recreate the same troubles on our streets

[Skip997]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

everything has been a disaster for the palestinians.

 

they do best when they do nothing.

Oh great

They may as well just give up then

[Neil]

my locality has been full of lots of pro Palestine graffiti for years. particularly up down the Bristol/Bath railway path.

[Neil]

Just now, Skip997 said:

Oh great

They may as well just give up then

what they've done so far hasn't been effective and has cost hundreds of lives.so maybe better to do less

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Oh great

They may as well just give up then

They were a lot better off with the initial partition...

[Skip997]

Just now, steviewevie said:

They were a lot better off with the initial partition...

True, but it would never have remained that way regardless of what they did or didn't do.

[Neil]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

the left switched to antisemitism after 67 war when Israel occupation expanded

the left backing israel's enemy, probably has more to do with who the USSR was on-side with, which in '67  & '73 was Syria (which meant Lebanon too)/Egypt/Jordan - all  Ussr  armed  and dependant on soviet generosity.

[Crazyfool01]

Limited incursions .... I wonder how many hostages will get rescued ? 

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

True, but it would never have remained that way regardless of what they did or didn't do.

we'll never know.

[Guest]

What a guy. 

[steviewevie]

The thing with the Hamas attack is it came out of nowhere...just sudden horror...whereas the bombing of Gaza has been going on for days...and then the impending invasion which could be carnage and possibly lead to an escalation in the region..just feels like surely this thing can be stopped. I really don't know. Israel want to defeat Hamas and I can fully understand why, and they want their hostages freed, just how the f**k do you do that without killing a lot of Gazans, especially as there still isn't a route out of Gaza yet. The solution has to be political...some how. Grim.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

The thing with the Hamas attack is it came out of nowhere...just sudden horror...whereas the bombing of Gaza has been going on for days...and then the impending invasion which could be carnage and possibly lead to an escalation in the region..just feels like surely this thing can be stopped. I really don't know. Israel want to defeat Hamas and I can fully understand why, and they want their hostages freed, just how the f**k do you do that without killing a lot of Gazans, especially as there still isn't a route out of Gaza yet. The solution has to be political...some how. Grim.

They aren't getting hostages out are they ? Hamas will just kill them the only way is by negotiation because Hamas won't want the freed hostages shown as a success 

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, Neil said:

the left backing israel's enemy, probably has more to do with who the USSR was on-side with, which in '67  & '73 was Syria (which meant Lebanon too)/Egypt/Jordan - all  Ussr  armed  and dependant on soviet generosity.

yeah, apparently in 40s/50s both east and west supported Israel...

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

They aren't getting hostages out are they ? Hamas will just kill them the only way is by negotiation because Hamas won't want the freed hostages shown as a success 

no, I don't imagine they will.

If I put my optimistic hat on maybe this will be the end of Netanyahu and Likud as Israelis will see that further occupation/oppression of Palestinians just cannot work and will kick start a proper international push to a resolution to this. If I just take the hat off for a minute though, so much damage has been done I can't see how any resolution will be acceptable to both sides...like getting the Israeli settlers out of west bank. 

Or maybe it will become a wider war and lead to the end of Israel.

Or maybe Israel will take Gaza and then West Bank and there will be a huge Palestinian displacement/death.

Or maybe Egypt and Jordan will take over Gaza/West Bank like in 48.

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

 

[Neil]

41 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Israelis will see that further occupation/oppression of Palestinians just cannot work

i don' think that's anymore obvious this week than last week.