news & politics:discussion

[cellar]

48 minutes ago, lazyred said:

The propsed benefit cuts are to balance the tax cuts for the OBR report and a trap for Labour. They expect to lose and not  have to implement them. Just like the tax allowance freeze which is planned up for a few more years. In a coupe of years anyone with just a full state pension will have to pay tax so I donlt think they can keep it for that long

Yeah all fair enough, I just want to know what the actual proposals are and who they're going to affect. As I said, I could only find the detail about uprating to Oct inflation figures instead of Sept.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

would be smart if Starmer could pre-empt when the inevitable call for a ceasefire will come, so he doesn't just look like a sheep.

I don’t think it’s inevitable the call will come. Maybe they will agree some kind of diplomacy without publicly using the word “ceasefire “. It’s actions not words that I am interested in and hopefully diplomacy gets some positive results.

[pink_triangle]

16 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yes that's why I was saying it's a hideous move. It's an ideological move designed to impact the less fortunate in society. Whilst they cut IHT which only benefits the well-off.

Agree and when the left turn on the labour leadership for not saying words that are meaningless in terms of actions, let’s not forget who the real enemy are.

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Of course they have, that’s why Labour haven’t announced their tax plans yet because so much can change before the next election and it gives more time for the media/Tories to twist the narrative. People know this really. 

have announced their tax plans, mostly no rises.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Agree and when the left turn on the labour leadership for not saying words that are meaningless in terms of actions, let’s not forget who the real enemy are.

Yeah indeed, it’s best to just ignore them if you can and focus on the Tories who would be enacting these awful policies. I’m sure Labour will have prepared for these types of policies as they aren’t a surprise and will have their plans in place for their own policies. It’s also worth pointing out that Labour might not just repeal as they’ll have their own policies which will be better anyway. 

[cellar]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Agree and when the left turn on the labour leadership for not saying words that are meaningless in terms of actions, let’s not forget who the real enemy are.

I think about it differently to "turning on" Labour - I expect Labour to be more aligned with my values than Tories are, when they diverge significantly (as has happened a lot over the last year or so), its concerning because now my only alternative to the Tories is diminishing, in my eyes at least.

But I'm not sure who you mean about "the real enemy" - do you mean people like me who criticise Labour when I think they've done something wrong? 

[Guest]

The Tories are the real enemy. People on the left shouldn’t be fighting each other, they should focus on the Tories who are the ones that are ruining the country with all these horrible policies. As even the worst Labour government will be infinitely better than the best Tory one. 

[lazyred]

2 hours ago, cellar said:

Yeah all fair enough, I just want to know what the actual proposals are and who they're going to affect. As I said, I could only find the detail about uprating to Oct inflation figures instead of Sept.

Some stuff today about stopping free prescriptions if you don't look for work. Wrong headed as its illness and NHS backlogs that keep some people off work

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/18/jeremy-hunt-says-he-faces-difficult-decisions-on-tax-and-benefits

[lazyred]

More benefits changes here. Mentions using the Oct inflation figure to irate and other changes. Tax cuts now.,supposed savings from 2025

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b8396fb6-831f-11ee-8006-26a8adc181a5?shareToken=c6c05728ba0f0f1981b3c2c36a4043fa

 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The Tories are the real enemy. People on the left shouldn’t be fighting each other, they should focus on the Tories who are the ones that are ruining the country with all these horrible policies. As even the worst Labour government will be infinitely better than the best Tory one. 

Why are you stoking up hatred by referring to the Tories as 'The Enemy'?  Are you Momentum by any chance, because that's the language they use and they also can't abide anyone with even the slightest difference of opinion to theirs. Jo Cox was murdered by right wing extremists and people using words like that really don't help. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Ommadawn

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Ommadawn said:

Why are you stoking up hatred by referring to the Tories as 'The Enemy'?  Are you Momentum by any chance, because that's the language they use and they also can't abide anyone with even the slightest difference of opinion to theirs. Jo Cox was murdered by right wing extremists and people using words like that really don't help. 

Starmer is the enemy for Momentum.

[steviewevie]

4 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I don’t think it’s inevitable the call will come. Maybe they will agree some kind of diplomacy without publicly using the word “ceasefire “. It’s actions not words that I am interested in and hopefully diplomacy gets some positive results.

No, not inevitable, but doesn't look like diplomacy is getting anywhere, and unless Netanyahu is kicked out it probably never will. Patience is running out in western democracies where the majority of the public want a ceasefire, not sure how much more can be tolerated.

[lost]

All the SNP amendment seems to have done is change the tactics of protests from general marches to targetting specific MP's who didnt vote for a ceasefire. Its Starmer's turn today:

 

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, cellar said:

I think about it differently to "turning on" Labour - I expect Labour to be more aligned with my values than Tories are, when they diverge significantly (as has happened a lot over the last year or so), its concerning because now my only alternative to the Tories is diminishing, in my eyes at least.

But I'm not sure who you mean about "the real enemy" - do you mean people like me who criticise Labour when I think they've done something wrong? 

I mean the real enemy are the conservatives. If people on the left bash starmer enough then the only beneficiaries are the torys.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Starmer is the enemy for Momentum.

He won’t have any issue with that, just criticism of the Tories. Anyway I was only using the word figuratively. 
 

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I mean the real enemy are the conservatives. If people on the left bash starmer enough then the only beneficiaries are the torys.

This is very true, that’s why the Tories set these traps for Labour which Starmer has done well to avoid thus far. 

[steviewevie]

28 minutes ago, lost said:

All the SNP amendment seems to have done is change the tactics of protests from general marches to targetting specific MP's who didnt vote for a ceasefire. Its Starmer's turn today:

 

the state of some of the sh*t in that twitter thread. That old bloke, kin'ell.

[steviewevie]

Elon Musk is getting very good at blowing sh*t up.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Elon Musk is getting very good at blowing sh*t up.

Including his ad revenue it seems. 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, lazyred said:

Some stuff today about stopping free prescriptions if you don't look for work. Wrong headed as its illness and NHS backlogs that keep some people off work

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/18/jeremy-hunt-says-he-faces-difficult-decisions-on-tax-and-benefits

Love to see them try that for people with my level of disability, even govt agencies won't accept me for employment.

[steviewevie]

59 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

No, not inevitable, but doesn't look like diplomacy is getting anywhere, and unless Netanyahu is kicked out it probably never will. Patience is running out in western democracies where the majority of the public want a ceasefire, not sure how much more can be tolerated.

Apparently there is really horrific video footage of a UN school in N Gaza that was being used as a shelter and was hit...women and children injured and dead...the sort of video footage which will sicken people everywhere and hasten calls for a ceasefire.

[steviewevie]

It needs to end.

[steviewevie]

[Guest]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Apparently there is really horrific video footage of a UN school in N Gaza that was being used as a shelter and was hit...women and children injured and dead...the sort of video footage which will sicken people everywhere and hasten calls for a ceasefire.

Maybe it was really a Hamas Control Centre.

[steviewevie]

Corbyn has now labelled Hamas a terrorist group. I'm sure that news is reverberating throughout the middle east.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Corbyn has now labelled Hamas a terrorist group. I'm sure that news is reverberating throughout the middle east.

probably not even reverberating through the middle classes.