news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

2 hours ago, lost said:

But it is possible he's simply doing it because he believes we need some oil for things like plastics, fertilizers, air travel going forward. Just seems unfair he's got to constantly justify himself as acting in the interests of the country more than others.

there was a similar skepticism of motives for things spaffer did too. i guess its just the tory reputation sticking to them.

[Nobody Interesting]

5 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

There is an interesting report you can download here 

https://ukfires.org/impact/publications/reports/absolute-zero/

It discusses what the UK needs to do to meet net zero by 2050. One of the things is does mention is that all airports bar 3 should be closed immediately and that they should be closed by 2030. Airtravel should only commence once there are sustainable fuel.

Another thing is that shipping should be reduced and ships run on nuclear

 

A good job other countries are concentrating on non nuclear cargo ships as they could come online far sooner.

https://www.offshore-energy.biz/energy-observer-unveils-lh2-powered-cargo-ship-concept/

https://futurism.com/the-byte/worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-cargo-ship-set-sail

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, Skip997 said:

 

The transition to hydrogen has been talked about for decades and will be talked about for decades to come.

The only way we have out of this is to start living more sustainable lives and stop trying to retain our luxury through the use of inappropriate technologies.

Meanwhile:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66753909

Not just talked about, talked about, planned and acted upon.

Small scale so far but a 20 seater is in production and should fly next year and all that tech is easy to upscale to large planes - ask Airbus who are watching closely as well as working on their own methods.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2355826-largest-plane-yet-tested-with-hydrogen-powered-engine/

https://www.soglos.com/news/business/hydrogen-electric-powered-aircraft-firm-backed-by-bill-gates-moves-to-gloucestershire/16116/

https://electrek.co/2023/09/07/h2fly-completes-worlds-first-piloted-flight-liquid-hydrogen-electric-aircraft-video/

 

[Nobody Interesting]

31 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

 

 

 

No surprise there - election May/June if they think they can win.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

No surprise there - election May/June if they think they can win.

I doubt tax cuts are really go to move the dial much, we’ll barely feel the impacts. 

[Nobody Interesting]

59 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I think we should limit the amount people can fly in a calendar year. The climate crises is massive and we will have to take big steps at some point. People jetting all round the world might have to rein that in but that’s not gonna be popular. 

Well, as aviation overall accounts for only 2.5% of global carbon dioxide (CO 2) emissions that seems rather extreme for such a small benefit.
https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-aviation

Aviation is often targeted as a huge culprit when it actually is not. If we want to change things then the biggest change we could make is to industry that uses fossil fuels as that accounts for 24.2%.
 

https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector

[Nobody Interesting]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I doubt tax cuts are really go to move the dial much, we’ll barely feel the impacts. 

Previous election data shows up to a 5% swing (source You gov) and much of the electorate is easy to pursuade (see Brexit for proof)

Edited September 8, 2023 by Nobody Interesting

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Well, as aviation overall accounts for only 2.5% of global carbon dioxide (CO 2) emissions that seems rather extreme for such a small benefit.
https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-aviation

Aviation is often targeted as a huge culprit when it actually is not. If we want to change things then the biggest change we could make is to industry that uses fossil fuels as that accounts for 24.2%.
 

https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector

You’d think it would make a much impact, wouldn’t you?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Previous election data shows up to a 5% swing (source You gov)

That doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed to happen this time especially with all the other issues facing the country and people feel much poorer now anyway. People will need to feel the tangible difference for it to affect how they vote. 
 

Plus Rishi Sunak is very unpopular. 

[Nobody Interesting]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed to happen this time especially with all the other issues facing the country and people feel much poorer now anyway. People will need to feel the tangible difference for it to affect how they vote. 
 

Plus Rishi Sunak is very unpopular. 

Look at the election data for the 1992 GE. It happened then, it can happen again.

Here is a graph from back then of opinion polls.

Look at the gap 18 months out then look at the result.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Nobody Interesting

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

You’d think it would make a much impact, wouldn’t you?

Given how much emphasis it put on it you would think that - and to me it looks like  a massive curve ball to make people look away from the worse culprits.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Look at the election data for the 1992 GE. It happened then, it can happen again.

I’m not doubting it happened then I’m doubting whether it’ll have the same impacts again. 

[steviewevie]

obviously we will still use fossil fuels for things like flying and other industrial uses for the foreseeable until something like hydrogen or whatever, but whole point is we get us much of our domestic energy from renewables as possible, and that means building wind farms onshore and offshore. I don't even know what the argument against this could be unless it comes from a climate change sceptic place.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Given how much emphasis it put on it you would think that - and to me it looks like  a massive curve ball to make people look away from the worse culprits.

Who puts the emphasis on it?

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Look at the election data for the 1992 GE. It happened then, it can happen again.

This.

And it's why Labour are terrified of looking like they're going to put up taxes.

[Nobody Interesting]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Who puts the emphasis on it?

Governments, media and given the conversation on here and other forums a lot of the population as a result.

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’m not doubting it happened then I’m doubting whether it’ll have the same impacts again. 

I have added some graphs and info to that post.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

This.

And it's why Labour are terrified of looking like they're going to put up taxes.

and the Tory/Right PR machine is strong - Brexit shows us that.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, lost said:

I'm happy for scrutiny but if there isn't any evidence? Starmers probably going to be PM (not here) elsewhere, a popular comment along the same theme seems to be Starmer wont stand up to Israel because his wife is Jewish. Again these sorts of comments make me uncomfortable.

Yeah throw that in there, why not?

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

I have added some graphs and info to that post.

As I said I’m not doing whether it happened but the situation now is nothing like 1992 so I’m saying I doubt whether it’ll have the same impact. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

As I said I’m not doing whether it happened but the situation now is nothing like 1992 so I’m saying I doubt whether it’ll have the same impact. 

bit silly comparing to previous elections, but is starting to look more like 97 than 92...in that there is a general feeling that a change of govt is required. But Labour seem to be sh*t scared because of 92 so have to go all blairite to ensure a 97...but I think things are different, more desperate, and I think people want and expect a bigger state now (but I would say that).

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

bit silly comparing to previous elections, but is starting to look more like 97 than 92...in that there is a general feeling that a change of govt is required. But Labour seem to be sh*t scared because of 92 so have to go all blairite to ensure a 97...but I think things are different, more desperate, and I think people want and expect a bigger state now (but I would say that).

I think that’s a fair assessment. Labour do seem terrified of f**king it up and scared by the past. They aren’t only scared by 92 but also if the Brexit wars too. They feel like they have to tip toe around voters which is fair given the deck is stacked against them. 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Not just talked about, talked about, planned and acted upon.

Small scale so far but a 20 seater is in production and should fly next year and all that tech is easy to upscale to large planes - ask Airbus who are watching closely as well as working on their own methods.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2355826-largest-plane-yet-tested-with-hydrogen-powered-engine/

https://www.soglos.com/news/business/hydrogen-electric-powered-aircraft-firm-backed-by-bill-gates-moves-to-gloucestershire/16116/

https://electrek.co/2023/09/07/h2fly-completes-worlds-first-piloted-flight-liquid-hydrogen-electric-aircraft-video/

 

It's not going to happen until there's hydrogen production facilities all over the world.

[Skip997]

2 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Given how much emphasis it put on it you would think that - and to me it looks like  a massive curve ball to make people look away from the worse culprits.

Along with the clean air zones in cities.

Here's one; pineapples picked in S. America get shipped/flown to The Far East to be processed and packed, then flown to Europe to be consumed and yet my diesel van is the problem.

[Neil]

26 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Along with the clean air zones in cities.

Here's one; pineapples picked in S. America get shipped/flown to The Far East to be processed and packed, then flown to Europe to be consumed and yet my diesel van is the problem.

right there its your inability to think rationally that's the problem.