news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yup.

Brexit gave us a nice way of finding out where our friends and family are politically.

Right = Brexiteers and Left = Remainers *

 

*sweeping generalisation!

yeah...I would actually say...

Far Right = Brexiteers, Far Left = Brexiteers, Centre mush = Remainers.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...I would actually say...

Far Right = Brexiteers, Far Left = Brexiteers, Centre mush = Remainers.

and actually that doesn't work with actual voters...many red wall or blue wall voters who voted leave probably don't see themselves as far left or far right...some wanted to go back to some previous era, some wanted fewer immigrants and to take back control, some just wanted change from status quo because they felt they weren't benefitting at all from EU membership.

[Skip997]

Just now, steviewevie said:

some wanted fewer immigrants

some where racist and very happy to not have to hide it anymore

[Neil]

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

Yup.

Brexit gave us a nice way of finding out where our friends and family are politically.

i recently discovered that my cousin was elected as a UKIP councillor  and was then thrown out of UKIP for being too extreme.

(since finding that out i've been tolling him with anti-brexit and anti-farage stuff. 😛 )

 

 

 

 

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

, some just wanted change from status quo because they felt they weren't benefitting at all from EU membership.

they wanted an end to change (like less change to the uk's ethnic demographic) and blamed the EU for changes in the UK.  in general people don't like change as it unsettles them.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

some where racist and very happy to not have to hide it anymore

yes, this is true. My Dad is a prime example.

But also the whole brexit thing showed, and what someone said in that Kuenssberg doc the other night, is that referendum just pulls everyone to either extremes...so in the end it became all or nothing, no deal brexit or peoples vote...no compromise which is what parliament normally does could be found..and Johnson and Cummings just forced the hardest brexit with a deal possible through and here we are. Will take a while to recover from that leave/remain division.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

they wanted an end to change (like less change to the uk's ethnic demographic) and blamed the EU for changes in the UK.  in general people don't like change as it unsettles them.

yes, different people voted leave for different reasons.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

yes, this is true. My Dad is a prime example.

But also the whole brexit thing showed, and what someone said in that Kuenssberg doc the other night, is that referendum just pulls everyone to either extremes...so in the end it became all or nothing, no deal brexit or peoples vote...no compromise which is what parliament normally does could be found..and Johnson and Cummings just forced the hardest brexit with a deal possible through and here we are. Will take a while to recover from that leave/remain division.

much as i'd love to blame the tories for everything, kit was the result of what 'the people' voted for. it was all or nothing there was no half-out. and MPs ruled out the compromise options, leaving Johnson with one option, he couldn't have got anything else thru the HoC.

 

 

 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

much as i'd love to blame the tories for everything, kit was the result of what 'the people' voted for. it was all or nothing there was no half-out. and MPs ruled out the compromise options, leaving Johnson with one option, he couldn't have got anything else thru the HoC.

 

 

 

Yeah, parliament was too mixed. If May had won a big majority as was expected in 2017 I wonder what we would have got?

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yeah, parliament was too mixed. If May had won a big majority as was expected in 2017 I wonder what we would have got?

nothing sensible  as corbyn squashed those options.

[Neil]

just seen that Gove's constituency's local council (Surrey Heath; used to be my council) is about to declare bankruptcy.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/13/michael-goves-local-council-warns-of-bankruptcy-risk-after-failed-tory-investments

Edited September 13, 2023 by Neil

[Neil]

i see there's a also a neighbouring council  - 'Rushmoor'  -  on the risk of bankruptcy list, they've recently bought up Farnborough town centre (including their own council offices) to redevelop it.

 

 

[Nobody Interesting]

31 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and actually that doesn't work with actual voters...many red wall or blue wall voters who voted leave probably don't see themselves as far left or far right...some wanted to go back to some previous era, some wanted fewer immigrants and to take back control, some just wanted change from status quo because they felt they weren't benefitting at all from EU membership.

 

29 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

some where racist and very happy to not have to hide it anymore

The North East has one of the lowest numbers of immigrants - in some villages there are none - and yet up there they are very brexit loving and immigrant hating and often repeat the media quotes on there being no more room, we want our jobs back etc................................. and yet where they live it has made zero difference.

Friends in Newcaslte - one remain, one leave - even admit this.

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, Neil said:

nothing sensible  as corbyn squashed those options.

yeah but if tories had a big majority it wouldn't really matter.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

The North East has one of the lowest numbers of immigrants - in some villages there are none - and yet up there they are very brexit loving and immigrant hating and often repeat the media quotes on there being no more room, we want our jobs back etc................................. and yet where they live it has made zero difference.

Friends in Newcaslte - one remain, one leave - even admit this.

well yeah...and areas with high numbers of immigrants often voted remain...but it was areas where there were immigrants and local deprivation and poverty where there was an issue. 

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

well yeah...and areas with high numbers of immigrants often voted remain...but it was areas where there were immigrants and local deprivation and poverty where there was an issue. 

In the North East there are many areas of local deprivation and poverty............. woith no or very few immigrants..................

So what actually is the issue? Rhetorical cos I know the answer and it starts with R

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah but if tories had a big majority it wouldn't really matter.

if my autie was my uncle i'd have another uncle. 😛 

[Neil]

Just now, Nobody Interesting said:

In the North East there are many areas of local deprivation and poverty............. woith no or very few immigrants..................

So what actually is the issue? Rhetorical cos I know the answer and it starts with R

there used to be a geezer from that area who posted a lot  here until early in the brexit ref debate. he moaned about immigrants, we all told him he was talking rubbish for his area, he then buggered off  never seen again.

[lost]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

So what actually is the issue? Rhetorical cos I know the answer and it starts with R

Protectionism which the working class still believe in. Labour were very brexity before Blair for the same reason. In fact Blair hilariously had to campaign on the Michael Foot manifesto the year he was elected:

 

 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

if my autie was my uncle i'd have another uncle. 😛 

I just wonder if May had won that election comfortably so didn't need to worry about DUP and to a certain extent ERG what we would have got? We would likely be in customs union, and would be closer to single market than we are now? Or would there still be too many internal divisions and problems and Farage and co wouldn't shut up and on and on until hardest brexit possible.

And if Labour had actually won power we would have probably got a similar brexit proposal but then had similar problems because their electorate was split.

Whole thing was f**ked.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

So what actually is the issue? Rhetorical cos I know the answer and it starts with R

Randy?

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

Protectionism which the working class still believe in. Labour were very brexity before Blair for the same reason. In fact Blair hilariously had to campaign on the Michael Foot manifesto the year he was elected:

 

 

Ha! That's funny.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, lost said:

Protectionism which the working class still believe in. Labour were very brexity before Blair for the same reason. In fact Blair hilariously had to campaign on the Michael Foot manifesto the year he was elected:

 

 

but this is it...brexit wasn't just anti immigrant or racist or whatever...it was an anti globalisation vote/protest...and remember all the cool kids were anti globalisation in the 90s.....I think they call it neo-lib these days...

So it isn't that simple. 

[Nobody Interesting]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

but this is it...brexit wasn't just anti immigrant or racist or whatever...it was an anti globalisation vote/protest...and remember all the cool kids were anti globalisation in the 90s.....I think they call it neo-lib these days...

So it isn't that simple. 

Given the politicians have no idea what Brexit is, was, should be and never did as it is an 'individual thing' I doubt many really knew much about what they were voting for and just selected a thing or three from the pile of headlines about what would be great and voted on those as it matched their view.

 

If only those that called the referendum knew what it was and had a plan for if we voted for it!

Cest La Vie

 

[Nobody Interesting]

Henry Smith's bill would ban hunters from bringing body parts of endangered species, like tusks, to Great Britain.

It passed the House of Commons with support from MPs across the parties.

However, Mr Smith says a "very small minority" of peers are now using "parliamentary devices" to stop the bill passing in the House of Lords.

In order to become law, the bill would need to be approved by both the House of Commons and Lords before the end of the parliamentary session on 7 November.

If the bill fails to pass both houses, it will be abandoned and the process would have to start again in the new session.

Liberal Democrat Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville said some peers "of the landed gentry of the country, mostly hereditary" were "doing their utmost to filibuster and talk the bill out".