news & politics:discussion

[Skip997]

8 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

They cause something called the radical flank effect. Essentially people that may dislike their methods show sympathy to the more moderate protestors. Either way it is a win win whether you like them or not.

Interesting, never considered that.

[gizmoman]

Just now, steviewevie said:

 

Really good, some great points raised and discussed, pity the politicians governing us aren't as well informed and rational.

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

well given we are talking about them and the cause it seems to 

Yes but recently there has been push back from government, labour and some unions, despite scary weather around the world, so maybe not that effective?

[lost]

Tony Blair's point in the new statesman was that our countries emissions are currently 350 million tons of Co2. China produce 11.5 Billion and are still increasing at 510 million a year. People are probably not going to accept massive drops in living standards to meet net zero only to see China re-add our emissions to the global pool over a few months.

I tend to think he's right on that.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, lost said:

Tony Blair's point in the new statesman was that our countries emissions are currently 350 million tons of Co2. China produce 11.5 Billion and are still increasing at 510 million a year. People are probably not going to accept massive drops in living standards to meet net zero only to see China re-add our emissions to the global pool over a few months.

I tend to think he's right on that.

aren't china massively intensifying its efforts ? 

[Guest]

The Tories have precided over massive drop in living standards over the past 13 years, going for net zero won't make people's lives worse it will improve lives.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The Tories have precided over massive drop in living standards over the past 13 years, going for net zero won't make people's lives worse it will improve lives.

its a big sales job and needs to be done in the right way .... I don't think the ULEZ benefits were sold well by Sadiq ... they should be making more of the gains .... I guess its hard as people jump on the negatives more quickly 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

its a big sales job and needs to be done in the right way .... I don't think the ULEZ benefits were sold well by Sadiq ... they should be making more of the gains .... I guess its hard as people jump on the negatives more quickly 

Khan could've explained ULEZ much better that's for sure, ultimately though the public seem pretty committed to net zero and putting in measures to effect climate change. People that don't are either partly funded by the fossil fuel industry and for some reason hate to see any type of change.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

7 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

aren't china massively intensifying its efforts ? 

Yes but they are also increasing its coal consumption which negates the green tech.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Khan could've explained ULEZ much better that's for sure, ultimately though the public seem pretty committed to net zero and putting in measures to effect climate change. People that don't are either partly funded by the fossil fuel industry and for some reason hate to see any type of change.

lets hope so .... committed to climate change or committed to doing the stuff that helps ... we will see 

[Skip997]

10 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

aren't china massively intensifying its efforts ? 

China is an interesting case.

You could say they're "hedging their bets" as in they're going all in on every level, increased fossil fuel use and increased renewables use in tandom.

Another thing to bear in mind, which is rarely talked about and certainly not common knowledge is that a significant proportion of their emissions are actually ours (and America's/Europes/Austrailias/Indian Sub continents and increasingly Africa's). China produces a huge amount of products for the rest of the world, including a ridiculous amount of disposible crap. So while we may claim to be cleaning up our manufacturing, the truth is that we're just outsourcing it to China.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Skip997 said:

China is an interesting case.

You could say they're "hedging their bets" as in they're going all in on every level, increased fossil fuel use and increased renewables use in tandom.

Another thing to bear in mind, which is rarely talked about and certainly not common knowledge is that a significant proportion of their emissions are actually ours (and America's/Europes/Austrailias/Indian Sub continents and increasingly Africa's). China produces a huge amount of products for the rest of the world, including a ridiculous amount of disposible crap. So while we may claim to be cleaning up our manufacturing, the truth is that we're just outsourcing it to China.

indeed and we've already emitted more than enough as we industrialised .... 

[steviewevie]

16 minutes ago, lost said:

Tony Blair's point in the new statesman was that our countries emissions are currently 350 million tons of Co2. China produce 11.5 Billion and are still increasing at 510 million a year. People are probably not going to accept massive drops in living standards to meet net zero only to see China re-add our emissions to the global pool over a few months.

I tend to think he's right on that.

If we don't bother sticking to our COP agreements because a bit difficult than we can't expect others too.

[Guest]

I feel people use 'China' as an excuse to justify why they don't want to see any climate change policies in the UK, when in reality it's probably because they just don't like change. If the UK carries through their climate change commitments then they can put pressure on other countries to do the same which in-turn will lead to positive change.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

China is an interesting case.

You could say they're "hedging their bets" as in they're going all in on every level, increased fossil fuel use and increased renewables use in tandom.

Another thing to bear in mind, which is rarely talked about and certainly not common knowledge is that a significant proportion of their emissions are actually ours (and America's/Europes/Austrailias/Indian Sub continents and increasingly Africa's). China produces a huge amount of products for the rest of the world, including a ridiculous amount of disposible crap. So while we may claim to be cleaning up our manufacturing, the truth is that we're just outsourcing it to China.

Thing with CCP too is they definitely think long term as they don't have that silly democracy thing to worry about, and climate change could well and truly f**k them up too.

[lost]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

a significant proportion of their emissions are actually ours (and America's/Europes/Austrailias/Indian Sub continents and increasingly Africa's). China produces a huge amount of products for the rest of the world, including a ridiculous amount of disposible crap. So while we may claim to be cleaning up our manufacturing, the truth is that we're just outsourcing it to China.

Just playing around with the numbers on the world data site and it looks to be about 20%ish are "outsourced" emissions

 

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

indeed and we've already emitted more than enough as we industrialised .... 

Heres our emissions since the industrial revolution vs China:

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

Just playing around with the numbers on the world data site and it looks to be about 20%ish are "outsourced" emissions

 

Heres our emissions since the industrial revolution vs China:

how does that compare per person ? because obviously a massive population difference 

[lost]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

how does that compare per person ? because obviously a massive population difference 

But I think what Blair is saying is does it matter? Does climate change work on a per person basis? The world warms more slowly if the emissions are spread across more people?

Edited September 14, 2023 by lost

[Skip997]

6 minutes ago, lost said:

Just playing around with the numbers on the world data site and it looks to be about 20%ish are "outsourced" emissions

 

Heres our emissions since the industrial revolution vs China:

How does that work out per capita, considering the Chinese population is a lot bigger than ours?

Another thing that is conviently forgotten as we try to push all the blame on the Chinese.

[steviewevie]

Hopefully Starmer is ignoring Tony f**king Blair on this one.

Edited September 14, 2023 by steviewevie

[Guest]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Hopefully Starmer is ignoring Tony f**king Blair on this one.

Much to Lost's annoyance it would seem. We might as well not bother trying to address climate change because, China.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

But I think what Blair is saying is does it matter? Does climate change work on a per person basis? The world warms more slowly if the emissions are spread across more people?

well in the scheme of things it won't .... but in the interests of clarity it does ... 

[Skip997]

Maybe we should be blaming America and Canada

Edited September 14, 2023 by Skip997

[steviewevie]

Where did Blair actually say this. I have read that he thinks Britain's emissions are dwarfed by China, but he isn't saying we shouldn't do anything, we definitely should...but then just keeps banging on about AI and tech.

[lost]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Where did Blair actually say this. I have read that he thinks Britain's emissions are dwarfed by China, but he isn't saying we shouldn't do anything, we definitely should...but then just keeps banging on about AI and tech.

It wasnt nothing let me dig it out for you.

Here it was wasn't do "a huge amount"