news & politics:discussion

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

because of course there's never been any pro-Corbyn drivel. 😛 

The Corbynites won't even accept the documented facts Corbyn's 40 year political history. 

This was not about Corbyn, I’m just saying that an article which praises Starmer written by somebody who is a Starmer fan and uses Starmer’s appeal outside of Westminster as the central pivot of the argument whilst the author appears to himself be a card carrying member of the liberal elite, is basically a waste of everybody’s time. Just an expression of the author’s bias.
 

He may as well have saved us all the time and just written ’I don’t care What u say, I like Starmer me!!!!!’

[Ryan1984]

Big Nige is at it again:

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2021/02/17/farage-wants-to-scrap-legislation-that-doesnt-exist/?fbclid=IwAR25HF9Bko-rqoeZB91lURBUJ3U87TSP56RyJPDLO-aLCwW_903iSLPBo1I

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

This was not about Corbyn, I’m just saying that an article which praises Starmer ....

well it is, because your problem with Starmer is that he isn't Corbyn. 😛 

7 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

a waste of everybody’s time. Just an expression of the author’s bias.

like your own post.

Edited February 17, 2021 by eFestivals

[Mr.Tease]

Phew! 

[Guest]

Do we use this thread to discuss PMQs now?

[squirrelarmy]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Do we use this thread to discuss PMQs now?

Yep. 
 

[Guest]

 

[Homer]

11 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Yep. 
 

Whoops, I fired off the weekly klaxon in the other thread!

It does appear PMQs isn't on anyway for some reason.

[eFestivals]

Just now, Homer said:

It does appear PMQs isn't on anyway for some reason.

half-term, I'm guessing.

[Guest]

Oh yeah I forgot about their recess.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Ozanne

[Homer]

I found Tim Shipman's All Out War extremely illuminating as to why Corbyn was A Bit Crap. To save anyone bothering to read it:

On the day of launch, etc, having a press release land at the right time to ensure it hit the next morning's papers for maximum coverage was not done as it was regarded as being 'too Blairite/New Labour'.

McDonell was also asked to go and campaign in the north on a battle bus to support remain. This was also binned as the remain camp were told that 'standing on open top buses is too New Labour'.

[Gilgamesh69]

Yeah, Corbyn had his flaws for sure, but at least he's not Starmer. Supporting Keir either means you're in denial about being a Tory-lite, or that you care more about your side winning than about actual societal progress.

[Homer]

2 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Yeah, Corbyn had his flaws for sure, but at least he's not Starmer. Supporting Keir either means you're in denial about being a Tory-lite, or that you care more about your side winning than about actual societal progress.

I can understand why some people think Coybyn would be a better leader than Starmer (I voted for Corbyn twice). What I don't understand why they would prefer Johsnon over Starmer.

[rock the clock]

2 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Yeah, Corbyn had his flaws for sure, but at least he's not Starmer. Supporting Keir either means you're in denial about being a Tory-lite, or that you care more about your side winning than about actual societal progress.

That's an incredibly simplified perspective.

But any one who is still supporting Starmer because they care about their side winning is in for a shock... 

[eFestivals]

Just now, Gilgamesh69 said:

Yeah, Corbyn had his flaws for sure, but at least he's not Starmer. Supporting Keir either means you're in denial about being a Tory-lite, or that you care more about your side winning than about actual societal progress.

lol

without 'my' side winning there's only tory govts and no societal progress.

But more than this, there's only 'me' on 'my' side, and I can see the ideas of the electorate are wildly different. I'm smart enough to recognise that what 'I' want isn't ever going to be available. And anyway, does it get more tory than only serving 'me'?

So the next question is: what can I get of some of it?

Of course, in some people's worlds there are only full-on-evil-tories and the beautiful self. 

[eFestivals]

Just now, rock the clock said:

That's an incredibly simplified perspective.

But any one who is still supporting Starmer because they care about their side winning is in for a shock... 

Starmer is a stage Labour have to go through in order to get back to winning.

[rock the clock]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Starmer is a stage Labour have to go through in order to get back to winning.

I think that is also a oversimplified perspective. 

Right now we have no idea where Labour will be when he leaves, or who the members will feel inclined to vote for next.

[Haan]

9 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Yeah, Corbyn had his flaws for sure, but at least he's not Starmer. Supporting Keir either means you're in denial about being a Tory-lite, or that you care more about your side winning than about actual societal progress.

I love Corbyn, but if Starmer wins with these pledges we will be in a decent position

[Haan]

I would also like to add that as long as the media is controlled by a handful of billionaires, and the education system continues to be underfunded and devalued, we will be fucked. According to recent polls we think immigration is a big problem, capital punishment should be reintroduced and the empire was a fine thing 

[hfuhruhurr]

If you want to be a protest group, fine, go ahead with whatever rocks your boat.

But, if you want to be in power to effect change, then you need to win an election.

Labour go in a lovely oscillation (beautifully illustrated in the play "Labour of Love") where:
1) They are in power
2) They go too far left
3) They lose power
4) They go further left and are determined that's why they lost, believing that socialism is the way forward
5) They argue with themselves until they realise the public isn't socialist (duh)
6) They go right
7) They get back into power
See (1)

It's happened so often and all it does it put Tories in power for more time than Labour. And you don't get to steer the ship from the opposition benches. The poorer get poorer, but at least Labour are faithful to their principles. What a load of bollocks.

Ugh, I despair. I want Labour in power, and for that they need to be electable by the public, not by several hundred thousand enthusiasts.

[Homer]

6 minutes ago, Haan said:

I would also like to add that as long as the media is controlled by a handful of billionaires, and the education system continues to be underfunded and devalued, we will be fucked. According to recent polls we think immigration is a big problem, capital punishment should be reintroduced and the empire was a fine thing 

That is a big problem. But what is the solution? I'm happy to go with getting someone in who appeals to a broader population than just me and who hasn't said and done countless things that make him so easily smearable by the right wing press (the Mail had a go at Starmer his owning a field and it backfired).

[Homer]

11 minutes ago, Haan said:

I love Corbyn, but if Starmer wins with these pledges we will be in a decent position

Ta, was gonna post this too. I don't see the problem with it either. Am sure someone can explain!

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, rock the clock said:

I think that is also a oversimplified perspective. 

Right now we have no idea where Labour will be when he leaves, or who the members will feel inclined to vote for next.

OK, put it another way...

We do know where Labour would be with a continuation of Corbynism, and that's a less good place than they stand a chance of being when Starmer moves on.

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, Haan said:

I would also like to add that as long as the media is controlled by a handful of billionaires, and the education system continues to be underfunded and devalued, we will be fucked. According to recent polls we think immigration is a big problem, capital punishment should be reintroduced and the empire was a fine thing 

There's nothing recent about those. Polls have been saying the same things about those for 50+ years.

And now you've recognised where a lot of public sentiment sits, what are you going to do to get elected, to improve some of the things that might be improved?

[Haan]

16 minutes ago, Homer said:

That is a big problem. But what is the solution? I'm happy to go with getting someone in who appeals to a broader population than just me and who hasn't said and done countless things that make him so easily smearable by the right wing press (the Mail had a go at Starmer his owning a field and it backfired).

I think there are a few things that might help like reversing the whole "gov can choose the head of the BBC" thing that Cameron introduced, setting up grants and schemes to get more working class journalists and editors in higher positions, maybe having more worker ownership models in some papers or outlets. And maybe killing Murdoch

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Haan