ALT LDN

[ace56blaa]

3 hours ago, thewayiam said:

Now I'm not going to down vote you on it etc or for the following comments you made and as you know I'm not that arsed by them.

But any money towards them is supporting and backing that up with it's not as much is pathetic!

The down voting you've given me recently for just giving a different view on events actually going ahead which I'm allowed to and isn't controversial, think about that next time that you disagree with what I've said because you have a different opinion.

There is being desperate for music being back and then there is supporting that kind of filth.

"In July 2017, Carter was arrested for domestic abuse charges after arguing with his girlfriend outside of the Los Angeles International Airport and then grabbing her by her backpack and pulling her out of the terminal.^[54] In August, it was announced that Carter would not face domestic abuse charges.^[55]

Carter punched a driver in Gretna, Scotland during his concert tour in February 2018.^[56] He was subsequently fined £800 after a trial.^[57]

Carter was arrested in Clayton County, Georgia on April 3, 2020, on drug and gun charges.^[58] He was released on bond the following day."

These are the Carti incidents you are talking about, he seems he face legal repercussions for all of them, not excusing the behaviour but if someone faces legal charges which are then dropped or he pays the fine in the Scotland. - 

I think why people are more upset about the Die Antwoord thing is because the two main issues is documented evidence of Ninja and Yolandi, making up sexual assault allegations against Andy from "Hercules and Love Affair." why they also use homophobic slurs against him. Literally all on video and it's fucked up. 

Ninja also has tons of sexual assault allegations against him from credible sources. - https://medium.com/@theroarofburningmemories/we-need-to-talk-about-what-is-happening-with-die-antwoord-now-6665305fc366. As well as the band having grooming allegations amongst other thing. - I think the band think they can get away with horrible shit because it fits with the aesthetic of the group.

I can see why artist on the lineup are less than happy to share the bill, because the band hasn't face any legal repercussions for any of this, never apologized for any of it. Festival were already canning them from bills when all this broke so weird ALT LDN must not have had the memo

 

[Andre91]

15 hours ago, thewayiam said:

Now I'm not going to down vote you on it etc or for the following comments you made and as you know I'm not that arsed by them.

But any money towards them is supporting and backing that up with it's not as much is pathetic!

The down voting you've given me recently for just giving a different view on events actually going ahead which I'm allowed to and isn't controversial, think about that next time that you disagree with what I've said because you have a different opinion.

There is being desperate for music being back and then there is supporting that kind of filth.

You care way too much about downvotes and stuff. 

[foolee]

Does anyone on this thread like or still listen to Michael Jackson? 

[Andre91]

38 minutes ago, foolee said:

Does anyone on this thread like or still listen to Michael Jackson? 

Absolutely. Bangers for days (stating the obvious, I know). 

If some people in this thread want to go down this route, I'm assuming none of them listen to The Beatles then, or anything John Lennon ever did full stop. I don't suppose they listen to any music that Phil Spector worked on, either (good thread on this over in the Glasto section btw). No watching any Kubrick films either. 

I'm clearly being facetious but I've expressed my point. Both sides of this argument are as valid as the other and land solely on personal preference. 

Die Antwoord have been removed from the festival now for the better. I enjoy their music but they are clearly not good people. Props to the other artists booked who have made this happen, it goes to show that speaking up about these things gets heard. 

Again, separating the art from the artist can be a tricky one, it isn't for everyone. If it isn't, fine. If it is, also fine. I don't think anyone in here's mind is going to change on the matter because of a few comments on a music forum. It's a contentious issue and one that people rightly have their own strong, personal, justified feelings on. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Andre91

[thewayiam]

2 hours ago, Andre91 said:

You care way too much about downvotes and stuff. 

And that's your reply? Just deflect away from it all. Nah you can piss off now.

[thewayiam]

1 hour ago, foolee said:

Does anyone on this thread like or still listen to Michael Jackson? 

There is so much miss match information in that trial.

His sister couldn't even provide solid evidence behind what she alleged and said you could not confirm what money was for. She basically got laughed out. Two people who defended him for years suddenly changed a plea when he was dead and there was money to be made....they also got thrown out of court.

Jackson was a strange man, a heavily abused when younger man by all accounts. He settled a lawsuit financially that was still not concrete to what actually occured. And how many times how we heard....person cries rape to then reveal a lie.

For all we know, his money was a huge benefitting factor to some. As much as people in the industry have forced as we've realised the past couple of years younger actors into thing for a step up. It works the other way too of abuse claims to exploit those with money.

But there seems no differing of evidence in the Die Antwoord case. It seems pretty clear from all directions.

[JBarbour]

1 hour ago, foolee said:

Does anyone on this thread like or still listen to Michael Jackson? 

Why is he booked for a festival? 

Have you seen the list of things DA have done and been accused of? They are disgusting people.

Now I'm no MJ fan but did he get convicted? 

This forum/website has hit new lows. The Glastonbury section is bad enough. 

it's OK to support abusers because there are other abusers? 

Edited May 8, 2021 by JBarbour

[Newjem]

16 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

Now I'm no MJ fan but did he get convicted?

If you're using this logic... did DA get convicted for anything you've mentioned so far? Besides the homophobic part of course because there's a video.

[JBarbour]

3 minutes ago, Newjem said:

If you're using this logic... did DA get convicted for anything you've mentioned so far? Besides the homophobic part of course because there's a video.

They are on video being homophobic and have done music videos in black face. Ffs. Isn't that enough? Then accusations on top of all the other shit. 

Why are people defending this? I really don't get it. 

[thewayiam]

50 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

Why is he booked for a festival? 

Have you seen the list of things DA have done and been accused of? They are disgusting people.

Now I'm no MJ fan but did he get convicted? 

This forum/website has hit new lows. The Glastonbury section is bad enough. 

it's OK to support abusers because there are other abusers? 

Unfortunately this forum has gone to shit a long time a go. And people do/say/hide behind shit for anything that will see them be able to live music regardless of if the band are a music equivalent of Donald Trump or not.

Edited May 8, 2021 by thewayiam

[Newjem]

2 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

They are on video being homophobic and have done music videos in black face. Ffs. Isn't that enough? Then accusations on top of all the other shit. 

Why are people defending this? I really don't get it. 

Because I don't get it then... is Michael Jackson ok for you or not? Because so many artists got accused of so many horrible things and some of it is taken seriously and some of it isn't which is quite confusing for me.

The problem of black face is complicated. Each culture/nation have a different approach. It's obviously considered racist in the US and UK but I live in a country where you could see black face in one of the prime time TV shows until quite recently (its a show where singers and actors impersonate other famous singers including African Americans) and noone considered it racist over here. That's because we've never used slaves, had colonies or seperated people of colour from white majority. But back to Die Antwoord... they did the black face quite a long time ago. If people didn't care back then why would they care now?

[JBarbour]

16 minutes ago, Newjem said:

Because I don't get it then... is Michael Jackson ok for you or not? Because so many artists got accused of so many horrible things and some of it is taken seriously and some of it isn't which is quite confusing for me.

The problem of black face is complicated. Each culture/nation have a different approach. It's obviously considered racist in the US and UK but I live in a country where you could see black face in one of the prime time TV shows until quite recently (its a show where singers and actors impersonate other famous singers including African Americans) and noone considered it racist over here. That's because we've never used slaves, had colonies or seperated people of colour from white majority. But back to Die Antwoord... they did the black face quite a long time ago. If people didn't care back then why would they care now?

How many times do we have to go over this?

This thread is about ALT LDN that booked the band. I have no opinion on other acts at the moment and I have already stated any act that is an arse hole shouldn't be booked for festivals. 

This thread is like rape culture. It's OK because it's the norm? Let's compare the band to every other act that's done something wrong? Should we be booking any lowlife just because its been normalised due to societal attitudes? 

I can see you are finding this difficult to grasp. 

[thewayiam]

15 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

How many times do we have to go over this?

This thread is about ALT LDN that booked the band. I have no opinion on other acts at the moment and I have already stated any act that is an arse hole shouldn't be booked for festivals. 

This thread is like rape culture. It's OK because it's the norm? Let's compare the band to every other act that's done something wrong? Should we be booking any lowlife just because its been normalised due to societal attitudes? 

I can see you are finding this difficult to grasp. 

I also find it crazy that people can be so happy with Slowthai on lineups. Another low life scumbag

[ace56blaa]

2 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

I also find it crazy that people can be so happy with Slowthai on lineups. Another low life scumbag

Wait what? Are you talking about the NME awards cause being slightly creepy in a misjudged attempt to have stage chemistry with Katherine Ryan is not in the same universe as Die Antwoord, and something he apologized for and something Katherine Ryan wasn't bothered by. 

Unless there's something else.

This is the problem with people calling everything "cancel culture" is when famous people commit actual crimes, people try to minimize it by comparing it to less serious shit or say stuff like "does no one here listen Michael Jackson then" 

There's a huge difference between giving money directly to a band by paying for a show they are doing, then separating the art from the artist n listening at home, especially if that artist is dead and gets no royalties. 

1 hour ago, JBarbour said:

They are on video being homophobic and have done music videos in black face. Ffs. Isn't that enough? Then accusations on top of all the other shit. 

Why are people defending this? I really don't get it. 

It's not just a video of them being homophobic, I've seen it, can try n find if people want? But the videos shows Yolanda and ninja straight up ochrestrating a plan to lie about this person assaulting Yolanda and then going round and spreading this rumour about someone they repeated call f*GG*t. 

 

[JBarbour]

15 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

I also find it crazy that people can be so happy with Slowthai on lineups. Another low life scumbag

What a lowlife he is. How quick the industry forgets, but gotta fill up these cock fest line ups some how. Bookers forget women on line ups but all about them rapey acts. DA takes the prize for worse booking of this year though. 

[ace56blaa]

https://mycitybynight.co.za/die-antwoord-dropped-from-festival-lineups-as-their-controversial-2019-scandal-continues-heres-the-full-breakdown/

Tons of evidence here, including the full video

[thewayiam]

18 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

What a lowlife he is. How quick the industry forgets, but gotta fill up these cock fest line ups some how. Bookers forget women on line ups but all about them rapey acts. DA takes the prize for worse booking of this year though. 

Agreed

Edited May 8, 2021 by thewayiam

[ace56blaa]

3 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

Agreed

Again, is there more Slowthai stuff beyond the NME awards. Which he apologized for which seemed sincere.  ?

I don't wanna minimize his actions, but neither did he, there's the difference he took accountability and learned from it. ? Die Antwoord flat out deny the accusations despite the evidence. - 

 

[JBarbour]

2 minutes ago, ace56blaa said:

Again, is there more Slowthai stuff beyond the NME awards. Which he apologized for which seemed sincere.  ?

I don't wanna minimize his actions, but neither did he, there's the difference he took accountability and learned from it. ? Die Antwoord flat out deny the accusations despite the evidence. - 
 

He's a raging lefty that likes to try and force himself on women

[JBarbour]

This is a great advertising tool for the ALT LDN promoters, wondering if we helping sell many tickets with this discussion 😄

@eFestivalsmaybe this thread needs nuking 

Edited May 8, 2021 by JBarbour

[ace56blaa]

4 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

He's a raging lefty that likes to try and force himself on women

Um, that doesn't answer my question, I agree that Slowthai was an arsehole for what he did. But if it was one isolated incident and this is what Katherine Ryan has to say about the incident: 

‘People are quick to judge a situation they didn’t see first-hand,’ she said. ‘When we take little clips of something and put them on the internet, it can easily be taken out of context.’

She added: ‘I really admire Slowthai and think that situation was missing a lot of nuances once it got on social media. ‘I was in a performative position where I was almost playing a character of myself. I was being a stand-up comedian. He was in a performative position where he was being a rock star. ‘It was like a pantomime and it’s very different if that interaction had taken place at a bus stop. It’s a show. It’s all about the comedy of that night, and I think people took it the wrong way.’

- I don't think Katherine Ryan is the be all and end all on whether the actions should be forgiven or not, but I don't agree that anyone should be deemed a lowlife when they make a isolated mistake like this, especially if they apologize and learn from the situation. - I've seen nothing else from slowthai that seems to suggest he is like this beyond these events.

But if you have actual conversation to add to topic beyond  the simply un backed up statement "he's a raging left that like to try and force himself on women"  I wanna hear it, If I'm wrong and there's anything else out there about Slowthai, i retract my statements, 

 

 

[JBarbour]

1 minute ago, ace56blaa said:

Um, that doesn't answer my question, I agree that Slowthai was an arsehole for what he did. But if it was one isolated incident and this is what Katherine Ryan has to say about the incident: 

‘People are quick to judge a situation they didn’t see first-hand,’ she said. ‘When we take little clips of something and put them on the internet, it can easily be taken out of context.’

She added: ‘I really admire Slowthai and think that situation was missing a lot of nuances once it got on social media. ‘I was in a performative position where I was almost playing a character of myself. I was being a stand-up comedian. He was in a performative position where he was being a rock star. ‘It was like a pantomime and it’s very different if that interaction had taken place at a bus stop. It’s a show. It’s all about the comedy of that night, and I think people took it the wrong way.’

- I don't think Katherine Ryan is the be all and end all on whether the actions should be forgiven or not, but I don't agree that anyone should be deemed a lowlife when they make a isolated mistake like this, especially if they apologize and learn from the situation. - I've seen nothing else from slowthai that seems to suggest he is like this beyond these events.

But if you have actual conversation to add to topic beyond  the simply un backed up statement "he's a raging left that like to try and force himself on women"  I wanna hear it, If I'm wrong and there's anything else out there about Slowthai, i retract my statements, 

 

 

She responding in that way because she didn't want him to self destruct, he's a young lad and the world had just seen how he treats women when he's had a few beers, then gets aggressive with anyone that called him out. 

He was getting hammered for it on social media, but she was also getting abuse from the fan boys and girls. 

[ace56blaa]

2 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

She responding in that way because she didn't want him to self destruct, he's a young lad and the world had just seen how he treats women when he's had a few beers, then gets aggressive with anyone that called him out. 

He was getting hammered for it on social media, but she was also getting abuse from the fan boys and girls. 

Okay so your argument is just gonna vague points with no evidence? - This type of discussion requires nuance and you just keep throwing around unbacked up statements. - I don't think this is a case of someone getting away for something because it is societal norms. - I think you have to let people make mistakes (within reason) and learn from them and apologize, show that they've changed. There doesn't seem to be any pattern of behaviour here? 

The situation itself seems to be more complicated than it seems, I believe Katherine Ryan is telling the truth when she says there is more context, I don't believe she'd have any reason to try and protect him, "didn't want him to self destruct" seems like weird speculation to make when all indications show that Katherine Ryan is a no holds bar comedian who doesn't hold back and I doubt would do so to protect a male ego?

I'm not saying you have to forgive or like him, but to suggest festivals should stop booking him for it seems an overreaction that suggests that we can't let people grow or change. - They same way people should be allowed to apologize for bad old tweets and grow from them. 

I don't think someone should be given the benefit of the doubt or given a second chance if the situation is as serious as die Antwoord who show a pattern of behaviour, no indication of an apology and actual full on crimes commited and gotten away with. 
 

[JBarbour]

1 minute ago, ace56blaa said:

Okay so your argument is just gonna vague points with no evidence? - This type of discussion requires nuance and you just keep throwing around unbacked up statements. - I don't think this is a case of someone getting away for something because it is societal norms. - I think you have to let people make mistakes (within reason) and learn from them and apologize, show that they've changed. There doesn't seem to be any pattern of behaviour here? 

The situation itself seems to be more complicated than it seems, I believe Katherine Ryan is telling the truth when she says there is more context, I don't believe she'd have any reason to try and protect him, "didn't want him to self destruct" seems like weird speculation to make when all indications show that Katherine Ryan is a no holds bar comedian who doesn't hold back and I doubt would do so to protect a male ego?

I'm not saying you have to forgive or like him, but to suggest festivals should stop booking him for it seems an overreaction that suggests that we can't let people grow or change. - They same way people should be allowed to apologize for bad old tweets and grow from them. 

I don't think someone should be given the benefit of the doubt or given a second chance if the situation is as serious as die Antwoord who show a pattern of behaviour, no indication of an apology and actual full on crimes commited and gotten away with. 
 

What are you even talking about? 

You are trying to normalise rape culture? It's OK to try and force yourself on women, then attract someone that calls him out for his actions, and then just apologise the next day? You sound like a bit of a scumbag.

It's all on video like with DA, go and watch it again. Then come back here and says that's OK. 

[Andre91]

10 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

What are you even talking about? 

You are trying to normalise rape culture? It's OK to try and force yourself on women, then attract someone that calls him out for his actions, and then just apologise the next day? You sound like a bit of a scumbag.

It's all on video like with DA, go and watch it again. Then come back here and says that's OK. 

I’m guessing that the idea of prison rehabilitation is a no-go for you? 
 

Slowthai‘s isolated incident was a disgrace, of course, but it isn’t like he has said that he did nothing wrong or laughed it off. He has seemingly apologised sincerely and addressed his behaviour, understood how damaging that kind of behaviour is and wants to make an effort to learn from it and better himself. He has also clearly communicated with Katherine Ryan who has also forgiven him for his actions. 
 

Are people not supposed to learn and grow from their misdemeanours?