ALT LDN

[JBarbour]

7 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

I’m guessing that the idea of prison rehabilitation is a no-go for you? 
 

Slowthai‘s isolated incident was a disgrace, of course, but it isn’t like he has said that he did nothing wrong or laughed it off. He has seemingly apologised sincerely and addressed his behaviour, understood how damaging that kind of behaviour is and wants to make an effort to learn from it and better himself. He has also clearly communicated with Katherine Ryan who has also forgiven him for his actions. 
 

Are people not supposed to learn and grow from their misdemeanours? 

So we should just forget about all the bad things people have done?

I am not allowed to comment on it or have an opinion on the matter? 

Should it be normal to force yourself on women, attack people and then apologise? 

I'm not a fan of cancel culture but I also not a fan of people just shrugging things off. People can call other people out for their shitty behaviour and attitudes. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by JBarbour

[Andre91]

You didn’t answer my question. Do you believe in prison rehabilitation?

[JBarbour]

Just now, Andre91 said:

You didn’t answer my question. Do you believe in prison rehabilitation?

I'm not an expert in that field, I'm not sure what how to rehabilitate, re-educate abusers and scumbags. 

[atomised]

3 pages about a festival nobody was particularly interested in

[JBarbour]

Just now, atomised said:

3 pages about a festival nobody was particularly interested in

And only a few posts about the actual festival. The rest are people discussing the positive and negatives of rape culture it would seem. This forum is just weird lately. 😂

[Andre91]

2 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

I'm not an expert in that field, I'm not sure what how to rehabilitate, re-educate abusers and scumbags. 

Maybe the topic is something that you should take the time to look into. You might learn something, which is always good. 
 

[ace56blaa]

2 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

So we should just forget about all the bad things people have done?

I am not allowed to comment on it or have an opinion on the matter? 

Should it be normal to force yourself on women, attack people and then apologise? 

I'm not a fan of cancel culture but I also not a fan of people just shrugging things off. People can call other people out for their shitty behaviour and attitudes. 

I really admire you morals and conviction, I don't want to anyway suggest your wrong to be mad at Slowthai. But am Slightly upset that you are trying to suggest i am normalizing rape culture, when i didn't condone anything slowthai did, I didn't suggest in anyway it was normal. I said you or anyone else had the right to still be angry. - I tried to be measured and calm in my arguments, bringing in statements from Katherine Ryan, I'm sorry if you think I should disregard everythings she's saying because you assume it is to protect slowthai when she has no reason to protect slowthai. I believe her in the situation, but also acknowledge that even though she was victim her forgiveness doesn't mean anyone else has to. 
 

 - Also this is the full video of the the incident, for anyone who wants to see it for themselves

[dentalplan]

Slowthai didn't 'force himself on' Katherine Ryan. It was a poor joke that went even more sour when traded from a comedian to a drunk rapper. Read a report from someone who was there.

Absolutely no need to call someone a 'scumbag' and accuse them of normalising rape culture for using the words of the people involved and the people who were there to outline how that incident was completely different to the actions of Die Antwoord.

[Andre91]

1 minute ago, dentalplan said:

Slowthai didn't 'force himself on' Katherine Ryan. It was a poor joke that went even more sour when traded from a comedian to a drunk rapper. Read a report from someone who was there.

Absolutely no need to call someone a 'scumbag' and accuse them of normalising rape culture for using the words of the people involved and the people who were there to outline how that incident was completely different to the actions of Die Antwoord.

Perfectly put. 

[ace56blaa]

15 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Slowthai didn't 'force himself on' Katherine Ryan. It was a poor joke that went even more sour when traded from a comedian to a drunk rapper. Read a report from someone who was there.

Absolutely no need to call someone a 'scumbag' and accuse them of normalising rape culture for using the words of the people involved and the people who were there to outline how that incident was completely different to the actions of Die Antwoord.

Thank you, I still think it's good to talk about and it's good to question how problematic slowthai's actions were. But yeah, when you are discounting the woman's statement in the situation to make your point because of baseless assumptions, how is that standing against misogyny? 

I don't think JBarbour is the in the wrong for the most part, he is clearly coming from a good place and there is a conversation about not letting celebrities get into positions where they can push the boundaries like this, but also we always need to leave space for forgiveness and leaning from every situation. 

Thanks again. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by ace56blaa

[JBarbour]

This forum has gone mad. Like all of a sudden its OK to force yourself on women and attack people. Like I shouldn't have an opinion on that matter or call it out.  

18 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Slowthai didn't 'force himself on' Katherine Ryan. It was a poor joke that went even more sour when traded from a comedian to a drunk rapper. Read a report from someone who was there.

Absolutely no need to call someone a 'scumbag' and accuse them of normalising rape culture for using the words of the people involved and the people who were there to outline how that incident was completely different to the actions of Die Antwoord.

To try and justify someones scumbag behaviour is a scumbag thing to do. I was the one calling out DA, whereas a number of others including @Andre91 where happy for the scumbags to be on the line up as their art should be separated from their wrong-doings apparently.  

21 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Maybe the topic is something that you should take the time to look into. You might learn something, which is always good. 
 

So if I learn about it, it makes all this OK? 

19 minutes ago, ace56blaa said:

I really admire you morals and conviction, I don't want to anyway suggest your wrong to be mad at Slowthai. But am Slightly upset that you are trying to suggest i am normalizing rape culture, when i didn't condone anything slowthai did, I didn't suggest in anyway it was normal. I said you or anyone else had the right to still be angry. - I tried to be measured and calm in my arguments, bringing in statements from Katherine Ryan, I'm sorry if you think I should disregard everythings she's saying because you assume it is to protect slowthai when she has no reason to protect slowthai. I believe her in the situation, but also acknowledge that even though she was victim her forgiveness doesn't mean anyone else has to.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/02/14/katherine-ryan-was-concerned-for-slowthai-amid-misogyny-backlash-14081648/

"Katherine Ryan wants fans to uncancel Slowthai after he harassed her on stage at last year’s NME Awards, confessing she was worried about him amid the backlash he received."

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/katherine-ryan-slowthai-nme-awards-cancel-culture-feminist-b421860.html

"She was also accused of normalising sexual harassment."

"After the event, she said she felt “motherly concern” towards the rapper and “regret” about the potential effects of the exchange on his career. "

https://www.nme.com/features/tv-interviews/katherine-ryan-the-duchess-netflix-nme-awards-2747971

“I’m vehemently against ‘cancel culture’” 

“It didn’t bother me but it was very difficult to watch as a feminist,”

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by JBarbour

[Andre91]

19 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

  

So if I learn about it, it makes all this OK?

 

That’s not even remotely what I said, is it. 

[JBarbour]

Just now, Andre91 said:

That’s not even remotely what I said, is it. 

😆 OK enabler

[thetime]

One might suggest kasabian won't be withdrawn from festival lineups, when Tom Meighan rejoins.

[ace56blaa]

15 minutes ago, thetime said:

One might suggest kasabian won't be withdrawn from festival lineups, when Tom Meighan rejoins.

is he rejoining?

[JBarbour]

20 minutes ago, thetime said:

One might suggest kasabian won't be withdrawn from festival lineups, when Tom Meighan rejoins.

Until people start standing against abusers and stop buying tickets bookers/promoters will carry on as if its the norm.

It won't change anytime soon. For them to say sorry seems to be enough for some people. They have turned someones life upside down and they just jump back into the spotlight like its business as usual. 

It's difficult because cancel culture sucks for the most part but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. There as got to be some hard boundaries like if found guilty or there is hard evidence of unacceptable behaviour.   

Remember when Josh Homme kicked a photographer in the face for no reason. That was messed up but not as bad as being straight up homophobic, racist or an abuser. Promoters just seem to carry on and ignore these things. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by JBarbour

[ace56blaa]

1 hour ago, JBarbour said:

This forum has gone mad. Like all of a sudden its OK to force yourself on women and attack people. Like I shouldn't have an opinion on that matter or call it out.  

To try and justify someones scumbag behaviour is a scumbag thing to do. I was the one calling out DA, whereas a number of others including @Andre91 where happy for the scumbags to be on the line up as their art should be separated from their wrong-doings.  

So if I learn about it, it makes all this OK? 

https://metro.co.uk/2021/02/14/katherine-ryan-was-concerned-for-slowthai-amid-misogyny-backlash-14081648/

"Katherine Ryan wants fans to uncancel Slowthai after he harassed her on stage at last year’s NME Awards, confessing she was worried about him amid the backlash he received."

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/katherine-ryan-slowthai-nme-awards-cancel-culture-feminist-b421860.html

"She was also accused of normalising sexual harassment."

"After the event, she said she felt “motherly concern” towards the rapper and “regret” about the potential effects of the exchange on his career. "

https://www.nme.com/features/tv-interviews/katherine-ryan-the-duchess-netflix-nme-awards-2747971

“I’m vehemently against ‘cancel culture’” 

“It didn’t bother me but it was very difficult to watch as a feminist,”

 

You are just picking sentences out in isolation, yes like we are all are, Katherine Ryan acknowledging that the act was misogynist. The subsequent 24 hour aftermath, she remembers, was a time of “motherly concern” towards him and “regret” that she might have played a role in his career possibly imploding. “Because I’m vehemently against ‘cancel culture’ in most cases. We’re always looking to ruin someone’s career. To take the context and nuance out of the situation didn’t make sense to me. I wish it had just stayed as a great rock ‘n’ roll moment in the room – and I respect him as an artist and performer.” is the full quote, which is ironic cause she calls out taking stuff out of context and nuance and you took her quotes out of context and nuance

[thewayiam]

2 hours ago, ace56blaa said:

Okay so your argument is just gonna vague points with no evidence? - This type of discussion requires nuance and you just keep throwing around unbacked up statements. - I don't think this is a case of someone getting away for something because it is societal norms. - I think you have to let people make mistakes (within reason) and learn from them and apologize, show that they've changed. There doesn't seem to be any pattern of behaviour here? 

The situation itself seems to be more complicated than it seems, I believe Katherine Ryan is telling the truth when she says there is more context, I don't believe she'd have any reason to try and protect him, "didn't want him to self destruct" seems like weird speculation to make when all indications show that Katherine Ryan is a no holds bar comedian who doesn't hold back and I doubt would do so to protect a male ego?

I'm not saying you have to forgive or like him, but to suggest festivals should stop booking him for it seems an overreaction that suggests that we can't let people grow or change. - They same way people should be allowed to apologize for bad old tweets and grow from them. 

I don't think someone should be given the benefit of the doubt or given a second chance if the situation is as serious as die Antwoord who show a pattern of behaviour, no indication of an apology and actual full on crimes commited and gotten away with. 
 

Katherine Ryan saw a bigger picture and covered his arse basically for him knowing she can deal with it.

He's in his mid 20s for godsake. I think he's passed the point of learning what is correct and not. Enough people called him out on here for his ways but think a little apology fixes it all.

He's an embarrassment.

[JBarbour]

1 minute ago, ace56blaa said:

You are just picking sentences out in isolation, yes like we are all are, Katherine Ryan acknowledging that the act was misogynist. The subsequent 24 hour aftermath, she remembers, was a time of “motherly concern” towards him and “regret” that she might have played a role in his career possibly imploding. “Because I’m vehemently against ‘cancel culture’ in most cases. We’re always looking to ruin someone’s career. To take the context and nuance out of the situation didn’t make sense to me. I wish it had just stayed as a great rock ‘n’ roll moment in the room – and I respect him as an artist and performer.” is the full quote, which is ironic cause she calls out taking stuff out of context and nuance and you took her quotes out of context and nuance

What I was saying is in her quote! She didn't want him to self-destruct, he's a young lad at the start of his career and he fucked up. She had "motherly concern". 

You seem like you want to defend him? Do you believe what he did was acceptable? 

[Jericode]

MGK into Architects is pretty decent init? Shame it's £70 and in London.

[thewayiam]

4 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

What I was saying is in her quote! She didn't want him to self-destruct, he's a young lad at the start of his career and he fucked up. She had "motherly concern". 

You seem like you want to defend him? Do you believe what he did was acceptable? 

 

31 minutes ago, thetime said:

One might suggest kasabian won't be withdrawn from festival lineups, when Tom Meighan rejoins.

There is nothing to suggest Kasabian will have Tom back at all.

4 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

What I was saying is in her quote! She didn't want him to self-destruct, he's a young lad at the start of his career and he fucked up. She had "motherly concern". 

You seem like you want to defend him? Do you believe what he did was acceptable? 

Unfortunately everything can be put to the back of minds. This is how desperate people on here are for live music again. 

[thetime]

17 minutes ago, ace56blaa said:

is he rejoining?

Note the 'when'

[JBarbour]

1 minute ago, Jericode said:

MGK into Architects is pretty decent init? Shame it's £70 and in London.

I like your optimism. 😆Try and get this discussion back to the festival itself. I think it might of gone to a point of no return. 

Needs nuking. 

[Andre91]

3 minutes ago, Jericode said:

MGK into Architects is pretty decent init? Shame it's £70 and in London.

Sleep Token too. Decent run. But yeah, £70 is steep. 

[thewayiam]

2 minutes ago, thetime said:

Note the 'when'

Note the 'if'. Can't see it happening.

3 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

I like your optimism. 😆Try and get this discussion back to the festival itself. I think it might of gone to a point of no return. 

Needs nuking. 

Yup it does.

Due to a few of the same as on a Glastonbury thread, this has managed to die as well.