Download 2023

[Andre91]

6 minutes ago, sacred shape said:

I got a day ticket and I hoped it would be an opportunity for them to play some heavier songs. Didn't really see anyone on the 2nd stage apart from Steel Panther (girlfriend's choice). Some good new British rock on the other stages though - saw Static Dress, Phoxjaw, Boston Manor, Trash Boat, Lenman, Wargasm (and would have seen Modern Error but they clashed with Rise Against)

Phoxjaw are bloody good, aren’t they! 

[sacred shape]

49 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Phoxjaw are bloody good, aren’t they! 

In love with them! I also saw them do two sets at Trees! I've got three of their setlists too

[thewayiam]

1 hour ago, sacred shape said:

I got a day ticket and I hoped it would be an opportunity for them to play some heavier songs. Didn't really see anyone on the 2nd stage apart from Steel Panther (girlfriend's choice). Some good new British rock on the other stages though - saw Static Dress, Phoxjaw, Boston Manor, Trash Boat, Lenman, Wargasm (and would have seen Modern Error but they clashed with Rise Against)

Well yes me too, I wasn't really overjoyed Biffy were topping the day as the worst time I'd previously seen them was Download and it was just a bit shit. 

[FeverDream]

6 hours ago, thewayiam said:

Well of course you would tailor the 2nd stage alternatively, that is what it's there for. Biffy fans don't want to go to Download to see them.

You’re missing my point, though. If they tailored the main stage to Biffy fans it would lure them in. You only need to look at the Biffy Clyro Association group on Facebook to see how many Biffy fans gave Download a miss because they couldn’t justify the £100 to see Biffy alone with a shite undercard on main. There’s 1000s in that group that would go see them in Download of the lineup was curated more carefully.

[Spiral_Low]

8 hours ago, FeverDream said:

You’re missing my point, though. If they tailored the main stage to Biffy fans it would lure them in. You only need to look at the Biffy Clyro Association group on Facebook to see how many Biffy fans gave Download a miss because they couldn’t justify the £100 to see Biffy alone with a shite undercard on main. There’s 1000s in that group that would go see them in Download of the lineup was curated more carefully.

Korn are one of the biggest bands in the world and it's a joke they weren't headlining themselves. Volbeat and Powerwolf are 2 of the biggest rock/metal bands in Europe. Rise Against are a well respected band with literally over 4 times as many listeners on Spotify than Biffy.

If you think that undercard is 'shite' all your doing is showing is that Download isn't the right festival for you. 

[SweetJesus]

4 minutes ago, Spiral_Low said:

Volbeat and Powerwolf are 2 of the biggest rock/metal bands in Europe.

That’s enough, now we can confirm that Europe is fucked up

[gary1979666]

16 minutes ago, Spiral_Low said:

Korn are one of the biggest bands in the world and it's a joke they weren't headlining themselves. Volbeat and Powerwolf are 2 of the biggest rock/metal bands in Europe. Rise Against are a well respected band with literally over 4 times as many listeners on Spotify than Biffy.

If you think that undercard is 'shite' all your doing is showing is that Download isn't the right festival for you. 

I don't think he meant that the undercard was shite for a typical DL goer, but for a bog standard Biffy fan.  A few more Biffy style bands would have tempted them to go.

[Spiral_Low]

22 minutes ago, SweetJesus said:

That’s enough, now we can confirm that Europe is fucked up

I mean I'd take them over Wargasm (UK) anyday haha. 

9 minutes ago, gary1979666 said:

I don't think he meant that the undercard was shite for a typical DL goer, but for a bog standard Biffy fan.  A few more Biffy style bands would have tempted them to go.

But then it wouldn't be Download, it would be Biffy fest. 

[Andre91]

1 hour ago, Spiral_Low said:

Korn are one of the biggest bands in the world and it's a joke they weren't headlining themselves. Volbeat and Powerwolf are 2 of the biggest rock/metal bands in Europe. Rise Against are a well respected band with literally over 4 times as many listeners on Spotify than Biffy.

If you think that undercard is 'shite' all your doing is showing is that Download isn't the right festival for you. 

KoRn most definitely aren’t one of the biggest bands in the world. 
 

Volbeat are huge in Europe but play academies here. They aren’t a big band in the UK. 
 

Rise Against play academies here but Biffy headline major festivals and play arenas. Spotify listeners don’t count for anything. 

[Spiral_Low]

20 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

KoRn most definitely aren’t one of the biggest bands in the world. 
 

Volbeat are huge in Europe but play academies here. They aren’t a big band in the UK. 
 

Rise Against play academies here but Biffy headline major festivals and play arenas. Spotify listeners don’t count for anything. 

I mean Korn are one of the biggest bands at least in terms of rock and metal. That's undisputed, they do absolutely massive shows in the US and South America and headline fests in Europe. 

Volbeat are doing an arena tour in the UK. 

And Spotify or Apple Music are how the vast majority of music is listened to these days so yeah it counts.

[justanothername]

44 minutes ago, Spiral_Low said:

And Spotify or Apple Music are how the vast majority of music is listened to these days so yeah it counts.

True but it's a really unreliable statistic for gauging how big a artist really is given that it's a global statistic. So bands like Biffy where they have a far bigger fanbase nationally than internationally will have smaller numbers. Also it treats all types of listeners the same, someone who only listens to one Rise Against a month because is came on shuffle on a playlist, can even be an official Spotify curated playlist, will be counted as a listener. Obviously this benefits artists who have more casual listeners (i.e. might know like one or two songs and that's it). If we do take monthly listeners as a true metric about how big an artist is then Rise Against are bigger than the following artist: ADTR, NIN, The Prodigy, Slayer, Architects and Volbeat.

The best metric has and will always be ticket sales, which Biffy trump Rise Against in.

[FeverDream]

5 hours ago, Spiral_Low said:

Korn are one of the biggest bands in the world and it's a joke they weren't headlining themselves. Volbeat and Powerwolf are 2 of the biggest rock/metal bands in Europe. Rise Against are a well respected band with literally over 4 times as many listeners on Spotify than Biffy.

If you think that undercard is 'shite' all your doing is showing is that Download isn't the right festival for you. 

Shite for Biffy fans, is what I meant. Korn are undoubtedly huge, but that doesn’t take away from my point at all. I’m of the opinion Korn should be headlining anyway. Rise Against aren’t a bad band to be under Biffy; Simon, Ben and James have a lot of admiration for that band and I’m sure there are crossover fans. What I meant was that you can’t book Biffy with an undercard that isn’t really relevant to their fans and then complain that they don’t get a big crowd thus aren’t right for a Download headline slot.

[FeverDream]

4 hours ago, gary1979666 said:

I don't think he meant that the undercard was shite for a typical DL goer, but for a bog standard Biffy fan.  A few more Biffy style bands would have tempted them to go.

This is exactly what I meant. 

4 hours ago, Spiral_Low said:

But then it wouldn't be Download, it would be Biffy fest. 

It would still be Download. Plenty of Download bands that are better suited under Biffy than Korn (who I said should be headlining just anyway). I’m not taking about every single act on main stage being of the same ilk of Biffy but one or two wouldn’t go a miss to lure Biffy fans in for the day who wouldn’t typically go to Download. Get rid of Alestorm and Powerwolf that day and replace with some alt bands then to me that’s stronger already.

[Andre91]

Rise Against were gash at DL.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Andre91

[thewayiam]

19 hours ago, FeverDream said:

You’re missing my point, though. If they tailored the main stage to Biffy fans it would lure them in. You only need to look at the Biffy Clyro Association group on Facebook to see how many Biffy fans gave Download a miss because they couldn’t justify the £100 to see Biffy alone with a shite undercard on main. There’s 1000s in that group that would go see them in Download of the lineup was curated more carefully.

Unfortunately I feel you are very lost here. I will make it extremely clear. Fans of Biffy didn't pay £100 for a day ticket because they could not justify the rest of the undercard for it. In reality, Download don't book a mass of bands that suit what the Biffy fan these days is looking for. You can't have it both ways. I actually really liked the undercard for Download on Sunday.

10 hours ago, Spiral_Low said:

I mean I'd take them over Wargasm (UK) anyday haha. 

But then it wouldn't be Download, it would be Biffy fest. 

Exactly this. The factor that when you book Download style bands in general below Maiden, below Slipknot, below SOAD and Rammstein etc you will book bands to align. 

 

[King101]

1 hour ago, thewayiam said:

Unfortunately I feel you are very lost here. I will make it extremely clear. Fans of Biffy didn't pay £100 for a day ticket because they could not justify the rest of the undercard for it. In reality, Download don't book a mass of bands that suit what the Biffy fan these days is looking for. You can't have it both ways. I actually really liked the undercard for Download on Sunday.

Exactly this. The factor that when you book Download style bands in general below Maiden, below Slipknot, below SOAD and Rammstein etc you will book bands to align. 

 

Something like A Day To Remember, Frank Carter, Funeral For a Friend, Creeper, Boston Manor, Wargasm would have made for a much more compelling undercard for a Biffy day and you can’t say it’s “not Download” when literally every one of those bands was already on the bill

[thewayiam]

4 minutes ago, King101 said:

Something like A Day To Remember, Frank Carter, Funeral For a Friend, Creeper, Boston Manor, Wargasm would have made for a much more compelling undercard for a Biffy day and you can’t say it’s “not Download” when literally every one of those bands was already on the bill

You are missing the point though that the last time Biffy Clyro headlined, ADTR was the sub.

But Biffy have a sound that has changed to may more poppy. They've got the songs to make a Download setlist but they chose not to. I was quite happy with the undercard although Rise Against was disappointing but I sent in the hope the set like others stated would be heavier. 

[King101]

2 hours ago, thewayiam said:

You are missing the point though that the last time Biffy Clyro headlined, ADTR was the sub.

But Biffy have a sound that has changed to may more poppy. They've got the songs to make a Download setlist but they chose not to. I was quite happy with the undercard although Rise Against was disappointing but I sent in the hope the set like others stated would be heavier. 

ADTR was the sub but AFI were 3rd, a slot they were nowhere near big enough for. Plus the likes of Sikth, Hacktivist and Of Mice & Men were on main, it was a jumbled mess of a line up then too.

This isn’t exclusive to Biffy, it’s a consistent trend going back to MCR in 2007. Book a slightly left field headliner, make no attempt to cater to their fanbase, stack a “Download favourite” against them on second stage and then shrug and say “well we gave them a shot” when it doesn’t work.

If they can cater entire main stage days for classic rock acts they can do the same for mainstream rock acts, or pop punk acts or any other genre, they just choose not to.

[Andre91]

Download 2017 was the best Download I’ve been to. Elite tier weekend. 

[BenG92]

9 hours ago, King101 said:

If they can cater entire main stage days for classic rock acts they can do the same for mainstream rock acts, or pop punk acts or any other genre, they just choose not to.

I genuinely believe they only do this for classic rock acts because they're the group that sets up chairs and picnic blankets at main and doesn't budge. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by BenG92

[thewayiam]

9 hours ago, King101 said:

ADTR was the sub but AFI were 3rd, a slot they were nowhere near big enough for. Plus the likes of Sikth, Hacktivist and Of Mice & Men were on main, it was a jumbled mess of a line up then too.

This isn’t exclusive to Biffy, it’s a consistent trend going back to MCR in 2007. Book a slightly left field headliner, make no attempt to cater to their fanbase, stack a “Download favourite” against them on second stage and then shrug and say “well we gave them a shot” when it doesn’t work.

If they can cater entire main stage days for classic rock acts they can do the same for mainstream rock acts, or pop punk acts or any other genre, they just choose not to.

What has AFI 3rd got to do with it? I actually like AFI and want to see them but it was too high for them. That year though that was all I had that day so the cost wasn't justified 

[Andre91]

The AFI and Max & Igor playing Roots clash is one of the worst I’ve ever had to face. Very glad I chose AFI, though. They had a small crowd but everyone down where I was stood was going absolutely crazy for them. So many bangers. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Andre91

[JimMacVeigh]

11 hours ago, Andre91 said:

Download 2017 was the best Download I’ve been to. Elite tier weekend. 

I’d agree with this to a point, although I give shout outs to 2007 and 2009 as well. 

[FeverDream]

17 hours ago, King101 said:

ADTR was the sub but AFI were 3rd, a slot they were nowhere near big enough for. Plus the likes of Sikth, Hacktivist and Of Mice & Men were on main, it was a jumbled mess of a line up then too.

This isn’t exclusive to Biffy, it’s a consistent trend going back to MCR in 2007. Book a slightly left field headliner, make no attempt to cater to their fanbase, stack a “Download favourite” against them on second stage and then shrug and say “well we gave them a shot” when it doesn’t work.

If they can cater entire main stage days for classic rock acts they can do the same for mainstream rock acts, or pop punk acts or any other genre, they just choose not to.

This is the point I guess I was trying to make, though you’ve summed it up much better than I could. I just think Download can and should be a little more careful when curating the main stage under a left field booking like Biffy (not that they’re particularly left field given the amount of times they’ve played the festival). You could replace Biffy with MCR, Muse or someone who hasn’t played before like Pearl Jam and I’d probably argue the same argument about the undercard not really suiting the headliner.

[FeverDream]

21 hours ago, thewayiam said:

Unfortunately I feel you are very lost here. I will make it extremely clear. Fans of Biffy didn't pay £100 for a day ticket because they could not justify the rest of the undercard for it. In reality, Download don't book a mass of bands that suit what the Biffy fan these days is looking for. You can't have it both ways. I actually really liked the undercard for Download on Sunday.

But that’s my point. If they don’t book a mass of bands that suit what the Biffy fan base are into then why would Biffy fans pay £100 for a day ticket to see Biffy and check out some bands they aren’t arsed about when Biffy charge £60 tops for their own shows? It just doesn’t make much sense to me.

It then begs the question to me as to why Download book Biffy in the first place. I can’t imagine much of the diehard weekend ticketers who go every year to be that bothered by Biffy. Would be interesting to see how many day tickets were sold for the Biffy day, as maybe I’m wrong and enough day tickets were sold in 2017 to justify their booking for 2022 with a fairly mismatched undercard which would make my whole argument void anyway!