Football 2021/2022

[pink_triangle]

27 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

 

 

Basically any of the evidence of how poor he is you'll twist to your predetermined opinion. If that's how you think, then it has to work both ways.

I am quite happy to judge reasonable evidence, but the 2 most recent pieces of evidence you have used rate on points per game (a metric I don't believe fairly ranks managers) and ridiculous inclusion/exclusion criteria which eliminate 90+ percent of managers who have ever managed in the league. I think it's quite subjective how many games we think we would need to judge a premiership manager, nobody however would set that bar at 300 league games or 1000 games in total. 

[WS_Jack_III]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I am quite happy to judge reasonable evidence, but the 2 most recent pieces of evidence you have used rate on points per game (a metric I don't believe fairly ranks managers) and ridiculous inclusion/exclusion criteria which eliminate 90+ percent of managers who have ever managed in the league. I think it's quite subjective how many games we think we would need to judge a premiership manager, nobody however would set that bar at 300 league games or 1000 games in total. 

Try the 9 this season then, no wins. Shite.

[thetime]

7 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Of course, so we go back to my point, why has no money bags club given Bruce a go? Cause he's sh*t.

I suppose we will see how shit Bruce us if Newcastle results start to improve.

[WS_Jack_III]

Just now, thetime said:

I suppose we will see how shit Bruce us if Newcastle results start to improve.

I was hopeful today but the team Jones has put out isn't great, no idea why they insists on playing Ritchie at LB and Kraft/Clark get in above Schar and Fernandez. Happy to see Joelinton given the boot though, terrible footballer.

[thetime]

2 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

I was hopeful today but the team Jones has put out isn't great, no idea why they insists on playing Ritchie at LB and Kraft/Clark get in above Schar and Fernandez. Happy to see Joelinton given the boot though, terrible footballer.

Your December fixtures are a bit brutal.

[WS_Jack_III]

Just now, thetime said:

Your December fixtures are a bit brutal.

Always are, it'll be interesting to see if the panic button is hit, all the talk is just 50m in Jan and a slow build.

 

Thoughts on Leeds? Second season syndrome?? 

[thetime]

3 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

 

 

Thoughts on Leeds? Second season syndrome?? 

Hope so, shit club with shit fans. 😍

Fucking hate Leeds, even more than Liverpool fans. 

[pink_triangle]

23 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Of course, so we go back to my point, why has no money bags club given Bruce a go? Cause he's sh*t.

On that basis did moneybag clubs give Lampard, Di Matteo, OGS and Grant a go because of their amazing track records? Of course things are not that simple. However very few (if anyone) have said Bruce deserved a job at a big club. However it is oversimplistic to say every manager belongs in the great or shit territory. Bruce is one of many who is somewhere in the middle. 

 

[kaosmark2]

I do think Bruce was successful at Birmingham. I also don't think he's done anything meaningful since then. He's had a few jobs where he's been neutral, and several where he's been bad. 10-15 years too long in management, and particularly bad at Newcastle.

The annoyance is that the media are following his own narrative about being hard done by. Most of the disdain from Newcastle fans he brought upon himself, and everyone (including him) knows that Ashley put a high pay off because it wasn't going to be Ashley paying him off to leave. He's earned £10m in 3 years for doing a shit job.

[pink_triangle]

22 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Try the 9 this season then, no wins. Shite.

I thought we were judging on a career and not a season. As I have said I think Bruce has had a solid but mixed career based on the resources he has had at his disposal. Many Newcastle fans seem to think that anyone who doesn't think Bruce has had a terrible career think he has had an amazing one. I think very few have that viewpoint.

[WS_Jack_III]

9 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I thought we were judging on a career and not a season.

😂 There you go again.

 

Would you have him at Man United then?

[pink_triangle]

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I do think Bruce was successful at Birmingham. I also don't think he's done anything meaningful since then. He's had a few jobs where he's been neutral, and several where he's been bad. 10-15 years too long in management, and particularly bad at Newcastle.

The thing is neutral is good enough for most premiership teams. Most teams are happy just to finish in the position that reflects their wage budget. 

[thetime]

3 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

😂 There you go again.

 

Would you have him at Man United then?

Pink doesn't support united

[WS_Jack_III]

Apologies, figured most of you do in here.

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

😂 There you go again.

 

Would you have him at Man United then?

No I don't think he has done enough in his career to justify the job. I think there are managers with similar qualifications (including the man utd incumbent) but don't think they should have got their jobs either. I also wouldnt want him to get another premiership job as I would prefer someone new to get a job. He has had his time, had an overall decent run, but I would rather the next generation of managers get an opportunity.

[thetime]

3 minutes ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Apologies, figured most of you do in here.

Think there's only a couple of us, myself and nal. More Newcastle fans here I would say. 

[WS_Jack_III]

Rafa wanting to come back? That's a very heavy defeat for one of his sides.

[lost]

1 minute ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Rafa wanting to come back? That's a very heavy defeat for one of his sides.

I'd drive him there myself. I could take the negative football but if he can't organise a defence what actually does he do?

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

The thing is neutral is good enough for most premiership teams. Most teams are happy just to finish in the position that reflects their wage budget. 

I don't even disagree with you on that. It's just been tiring over the last decade of lots of clubs settling for mediocrity. The club's desire for stability (ie reliable PL income) has been killing excitement for fans. Bland management appointments is just yet another symptom of that.

[efcfanwirral]

 

1 hour ago, lost said:

I'd drive him there myself. I could take the negative football but if he can't organise a defence what actually does he do?

They've been prone to this sort of defensive collapse for a while. I'm not happy with today but I'm not blaming Rafa - the squad is paper thin and any replacements for first 11 are not remotely good enough. DCL and Doucoure are the last two players we need out for a while. 

If gray or townsend get injured we're completely fucked.

I think Rafa can build something, he has the experience and ability but the boos in the street end today when he subbed Gordon off tells me he won't get the opportunity. 

Bet he wishes he'd held on for Newcastle now. It'll be 2 years before we can spend any real money again but there's no way the fans will take him for that long. Was inevitable when they appointed him 

Just for avoidance of doubt, I'm behind him,and think fans should be patient with him. This season is about staying up and running down the contracts of some shit players 

Edited October 23, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[lost]

10 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I think Rafa can build something, he has the experience and ability but the boos in the street end today when he subbed Gordon off tells me he won't get the opportunity. 

Bet he wishes he'd held on for Newcastle now. It'll be 2 years before we can spend any real money again but there's no way the fans will take him for that long. Was inevitable when they appointed him 

I didn't want him but not because of the Liverpool connection but really unless your in the top 1% of managers your career always follows a bell curve, you do well, then peak, younger managers steal your better ideas and then work out how to play against your system and then when your on the downward slide its very difficult to change and pick back up.

In his last two jobs he's apparently managed the same win rate at Newcastle as Steve Bruce and then finished second from bottom in the Chinese league and only stayed up by winning a relegation playoff. When his style of football was successful Mourinho was better at it than him and well we can see the direction Mourinho's career has gone.

I also don't like how twice at both Liverpool and Newcastle he's manged to cover up his weaknesses by blaming the board and turning the fans against them whilst leaving a hero, i actually think that's part of the issue Steve Bruce has faced as he's been seen as a yes man. When Liverpool won the Champions League didn't the players contact Gerard Houllier and say well this is really your team? I guess we can read what we want into that too.

Edited October 23, 2021 by lost

[thetime]

Premier league getting a bit like the Spanish league, top 3 and rest just average fodder.

[kaosmark2]

23 minutes ago, lost said:

I didn't want him but not because of the Liverpool connection but really unless your in the top 1% of managers your career always follows a bell curve, you do well, then peak, younger managers steal your better ideas and then work out how to play against your system and then when your on the downward slide its very difficult to change and pick back up.

In his last two jobs he's apparently managed the same win rate at Newcastle as Steve Bruce and then finished second from bottom in the Chinese league and only stayed up by winning a relegation playoff. When his style of football was successful Mourinho was better at it than him and well we can see the direction Mourinho's career has gone.

I also don't like how twice at both Liverpool and Newcastle he's manged to cover up his weaknesses by blaming the board and turning the fans against them whilst leaving a hero, i actually think that's part of the issue Steve Bruce has faced as he's been seen as a yes man. When Liverpool won the Champions League didn't the players contact Gerard Houllier and say well this is really your team? I guess we can read what we want into that too.

I mean, at Newcastle the fans were against the board anyway. He didn't turn the fans against Ashley, that happened yonks before Benitez.

[WS_Jack_III]

He understood that we weren't content with the shite Ashley put us through. We don't expect to be winning everything but we also don't expect to be losing.

[pink_triangle]

https://www.themag.co.uk/2021/10/this-appalling-treatment-of-newcastle-united-fans/

Its horrific that they even mention Hillsborough when talking about treatment of Newcastle fans, they should really take this down.