Maybe it's time for a Download rival

[gabrielomachado]

Don't know where to post it but after 2021 R&L fests and everyone saying that these festivals are not for rock bands anymore, and considering the huge amount of acts that are touring Europe next year and not playing Download, maybe isn't time to a major UK Rock festival to return? Not necessarily a Sonisphere return but something to co-exist with Download. Maybe with acts that normally would be considered "too soft" for DL and that no longer fit Reading/Leeds audience like Queens Of The Stone Age and Red Hot Chili Peppers, along with huge metal acts

 

[rivalschools.price]

2 hours ago, gabrielomachado said:

Don't know where to post it but after 2021 R&L fests and everyone saying that these festivals are not for rock bands anymore, and considering the huge amount of acts that are touring Europe next year and not playing Download, maybe isn't time to a major UK Rock festival to return? Not necessarily a Sonisphere return but something to co-exist with Download. Maybe with acts that normally would be considered "too soft" for DL and that no longer fit Reading/Leeds audience like Queens Of The Stone Age and Red Hot Chili Peppers, along with huge metal acts

 

Would definitely consider going depending on the line up if a new festival popped up.

By the way, Queens of the Stone Age and Red Hot Chili Peppers aren’t too soft for Download. Queens have already played and the Chilis would go down very well.

[Jericode]

Download could solve the problem themselves by just booking those acts to headline rather perpetually leaving everyone who doesn't qualify for a senior pass as sub-headliners.

[jump]

I'd personally be up for a Riot Fest type festival which is more alt/punk oriented than Download's cock rock/metal. Just look at how good some of these line ups were;

[JimMacVeigh]

Would love a Sonisphere return, although I know it’s a damaged brand. Loved the layout of the festival, and always felt the lineup was really varied. 

[jump]

10 minutes ago, JimMacVeigh said:

Would love a Sonisphere return, although I know it’s a damaged brand. Loved the layout of the festival, and always felt the lineup was really varied. 

Yeah their campsite was alot better than Download's. I'm not sure I'd say the line up's were better though. On one hand they pulled some clever tricks like booking the big 4 to dress up Metallica playing again, getting Rammstein to play festivals, basically legitimizing Babymetal outside of Japan and Bill Baily but they went mental with the mid-sized bands playing albums in full and booking that Queen tribute band as the BIG name headliner in that flop year.

[gabrielomachado]

6 hours ago, jump said:

I'd personally be up for a Riot Fest type festival which is more alt/punk oriented than Download's cock rock/metal. Just look at how good some of these line ups were;

american festivals are kinda weak for me but i always loved Riot lineups

[jump]

28 minutes ago, gabrielomachado said:

american festivals are kinda weak for me but i always loved Riot lineups

I just really like vibe of Riot Fest. Even in the UK where there's an overload of fests there's not many places where I can see something like The Flaming Lips, Wu Tang, Slayer and Damian Marley the same weekend. It's one of the reasons why I like Boomtown so much that's it's not just rappers, just dark fruit indie, just dance or just rawk.

The Americans probably look at UK fests and think ours are weak too, who the fuck are Biffy Clyro, Foals and George Ezra. It does take some getting used to as some headline acts like Modest Mouse don't mean much here (to be honest I've seen them twice and they were duds twice plus their albums lack the magic of their early stuff so no real lost) and Riot Fest do like to bump up a punk band to headliner like Jawbreaker and The Misfits even though they are often not on the same level as their other headliners.

Edited September 1, 2021 by jump

[VCK]

Have been thinking this as well. Like you say Download is a little to the heavy side and TRNSMT is a little too Indie. R&L traditionally held the perfect balance between both. In one of my first years of going in 2006, you had the likes of Arctic Monkeys and Kaiser Chiefs sharing the Main Stage bill with Slayer! Would never see something like that nowadays.

I think a huge factor in R&L becoming more poppy is the cancellation of V Festival, which in turn used to host a lot of alternative rock acts back in the day.

[JimMacVeigh]

4 hours ago, jump said:

Yeah their campsite was alot better than Download's. I'm not sure I'd say the line up's were better though. On one hand they pulled some clever tricks like booking the big 4 to dress up Metallica playing again, getting Rammstein to play festivals, basically legitimizing Babymetal outside of Japan and Bill Baily but they went mental with the mid-sized bands playing albums in full and booking that Queen tribute band as the BIG name headliner in that flop year.

I remember that in 2012. I think after Sonisphere battered download in 11 with that ridiculous lineup, DL came back swinging the year after. No way Sonisphere could compete with that. 

[Spiral_Low]

Those riot Fest line ups look cool and certainly I could see a UK fest like that being a success if it were added to the summer schedule. 

But you only need to look at the failure of Alt Ldn to see that you can't mix modern rap with rock/metal - Architects being booed throughout out their set apparently and reports of their fans being hassled. And dark fruits indie is a big no too, you only need to talk to anyone who frequents rock/metal pubs n clubs to see the problems that arise when the dark fruits crowd turn up. 

So yeah another rock fest with a bit old school and proper alternative hip hop, a bit of Pixies type indie and that kinda alt punk, cool. But deffo gotta be smart about the line up mix. Would need to be booked by a proper music fan(s) who understands and is involved the scene.

[gabrielomachado]

14 minutes ago, Spiral_Low said:

Those riot Fest line ups look cool and certainly I could see a UK fest like that being a success if it were added to the summer schedule. 

But you only need to look at the failure of Alt Ldn to see that you can't mix modern rap with rock/metal - Architects being booed throughout out their set apparently and reports of their fans being hassled. And dark fruits indie is a big no too, you only need to talk to anyone who frequents rock/metal pubs n clubs to see the problems that arise when the dark fruits crowd turn up. 

So yeah another rock fest with a bit old school and proper alternative hip hop, a bit of Pixies type indie and that kinda alt punk, cool. But deffo gotta be smart about the line up mix. Would need to be booked by a proper music fan(s) who understands and is involved the scene.

i'm thinking more about a Sonisphere lineup (bands like Biffy and Weezer mixed with Slipknot and Motörhead) than a festival who mixs dark fruits indie + soundcloud rappers with heavy bands. think about something like Rock Am Ring that in 2019 had bands like Cage The Elephant and Foals with Behemoth and Arch Enemy on the same day

[Spiral_Low]

1 minute ago, gabrielomachado said:

i'm thinking more about a Sonisphere lineup (bands like Biffy and Weezer mixed with Slipknot and Motörhead) than a festival who mixs dark fruits indie + soundcloud rappers with heavy bands. think about something like Rock Am Ring that in 2019 had bands like Cage The Elephant and Foals with Behemoth and Arch Enemy on the same day

Oh yeah deffo. My comment was just emphasizing that it would be to be sensibly done. Especially knowing the corporate types who get involved with the music scene. 

[jump]

31 minutes ago, Spiral_Low said:

Those riot Fest line ups look cool and certainly I could see a UK fest like that being a success if it were added to the summer schedule. 

But you only need to look at the failure of Alt Ldn to see that you can't mix modern rap with rock/metal - Architects being booed throughout out their set apparently and reports of their fans being hassled. And dark fruits indie is a big no too, you only need to talk to anyone who frequents rock/metal pubs n clubs to see the problems that arise when the dark fruits crowd turn up. 

So yeah another rock fest with a bit old school and proper alternative hip hop, a bit of Pixies type indie and that kinda alt punk, cool. But deffo gotta be smart about the line up mix. Would need to be booked by a proper music fan(s) who understands and is involved the scene.

ALT LDN was just a clusterfuck from literally the get go with Die Antwoord. To me it seemed they were booking a rap festival and threw random metal acts on the second stage which had no crossover with rap so when they took away the 2nd stage the faults in the line up really showed. You can get away with the current rap and current metal togther but not like that, like for example I've seen Run The Jewels support The Queens Of The Stone Age and Bring Me The Horizon at day fests and the crowd loved them plus Rage Against The Machine had them book for their world tour, it's when you book rap that has no crossover (or in ALT LDN's case book metal which had no cross over with rap) then the problem happens.

I definitely agree on keeping dark fruit indie out, there's enough festivals for that already and the crowd doesn't mix well with others. I remember seeing Arcade Fire with Mumford & Sons supporting them in Hyde Park, the crowd that came for Mumford were twats.

1 hour ago, JimMacVeigh said:

I remember that in 2012. I think after Sonisphere battered download in 11 with that ridiculous lineup, DL came back swinging the year after. No way Sonisphere could compete with that. 

Thing is they should have though as Sonisphere was a touring fest in Europe so they can book loads of gigs for these artists but when they had the UK show Soundgarden and the others went to Download instead.

[Andre91]

Metallica seem reticent to play Download so imagine a new festival with something like these headliners: 

Bring Me The Horizon 

Metallica 

Queens Of The Stone Age 

[Spiral_Low]

38 minutes ago, jump said:

ALT LDN was just a clusterfuck from literally the get go with Die Antwoord. To me it seemed they were booking a rap festival and threw random metal acts on the second stage which had no crossover with rap so when they took away the 2nd stage the faults in the line up really showed. You can get away with the current rap and current metal togther but not like that, like for example I've seen Run The Jewels support The Queens Of The Stone Age and Bring Me The Horizon at day fests and the crowd loved them plus Rage Against The Machine had them book for their world tour, it's when you book rap that has no crossover (or in ALT LDN's case book metal which had no cross over with rap) then the problem happens.

I definitely agree on keeping dark fruit indie out, there's enough festivals for that already and the crowd doesn't mix well with others. I remember seeing Arcade Fire with Mumford & Sons supporting them in Hyde Park, the crowd that came for Mumford were twats.

True, very dependent on the cross over appeal.

[beetchez]

Been thinking about this for a couple of years now. Download seems to cater to the Bloodstock/dad crowd, whereas Reading are moving in a V Fest direction. 

I made these a while back as a hypothetical "in between" festival for Download and Reading. Slam Dunk/2000Trees but bigger.

[VCK]

5 hours ago, Spiral_Low said:

Those riot Fest line ups look cool and certainly I could see a UK fest like that being a success if it were added to the summer schedule. 

But you only need to look at the failure of Alt Ldn to see that you can't mix modern rap with rock/metal - Architects being booed throughout out their set apparently and reports of their fans being hassled. And dark fruits indie is a big no too, you only need to talk to anyone who frequents rock/metal pubs n clubs to see the problems that arise when the dark fruits crowd turn up. 

So yeah another rock fest with a bit old school and proper alternative hip hop, a bit of Pixies type indie and that kinda alt punk, cool. But deffo gotta be smart about the line up mix. Would need to be booked by a proper music fan(s) who understands and is involved the scene.

 

4 hours ago, gabrielomachado said:

i'm thinking more about a Sonisphere lineup (bands like Biffy and Weezer mixed with Slipknot and Motörhead) than a festival who mixs dark fruits indie + soundcloud rappers with heavy bands. think about something like Rock Am Ring that in 2019 had bands like Cage The Elephant and Foals with Behemoth and Arch Enemy on the same day

Throw in some Indie to balance it out, and also old school hip hop like Nas, Public Enemy and Wu-Tang along with a few current Grime and EDM stars, and it'd be perfect. Everything for everyone. Just like how R&L used to be, the perfect balance of not being too mainstream, not too leftfield.

[rivalschools.price]

On 9/1/2021 at 11:53 AM, JimMacVeigh said:

Would love a Sonisphere return, although I know it’s a damaged brand. Loved the layout of the festival, and always felt the lineup was really varied. 

I’ve always considered the fact that Sonisphere is more varied than Download as a bit of a myth.

If you go back through the line ups, other than a handful of bands, they have just booked a pile of bands that played Download on different years.

[gabrielomachado]

2 minutes ago, rivalschools.price said:

I’ve always considered the fact that Sonisphere is more varied than Download as a bit of a myth.

If you go back through the line ups, other than a handful of bands, they have just booked a pile of bands that played Download on different years.

i disagree. in sonisphere we had bands as NIN, Weezer, The Mars Volta, Gary Numan that never played download, bands like Sum41 that haven't played in download by the time they played at soni and Biffy that headlined there first than download

 

the problem with Sonisphere was the dependency of Metallica and Iron Maiden as headliners

[jump]

I felt Sonisphere broke abit more ground ahead of Download, even wrestling was a Sonisphere thing first. Of course it was still a metal fest so it gonna share alot of acts but the promoters booked Chili Peppers to play Knewborth the same year as that Queen shit show. It's odd they didn't get them at Soni, they are a big headliner and it would have highlighted them as different to Download.

[rivalschools.price]

1 hour ago, gabrielomachado said:

i disagree. in sonisphere we had bands as NIN, Weezer, The Mars Volta, Gary Numan that never played download, bands like Sum41 that haven't played in download by the time they played at soni and Biffy that headlined there first than download

 

the problem with Sonisphere was the dependency of Metallica and Iron Maiden as headliners

I did say ‘other than a handful of bands’ haha

[gabrielomachado]

23 minutes ago, rivalschools.price said:

I did say ‘other than a handful of bands’ haha

i still think of sonisphere lineups way more diverse than download, at least the last 5 years download

[thewayiam]

17 hours ago, rivalschools.price said:

I’ve always considered the fact that Sonisphere is more varied than Download as a bit of a myth.

If you go back through the line ups, other than a handful of bands, they have just booked a pile of bands that played Download on different years.

But you hit it right there. People want Download to book that handful of bands to shake it up. It makes the difference.

There is 100% a field for a festival too book bands that Download would but starting with lesser headliners. Slam Dunk have already tried something very small as a side thing. 

[rivalschools.price]

7 hours ago, thewayiam said:

But you hit it right there. People want Download to book that handful of bands to shake it up. It makes the difference.

There is 100% a field for a festival too book bands that Download would but starting with lesser headliners. Slam Dunk have already tried something very small as a side thing. 

Those handful of bands were spread over a few years at Sonisphere and most of them would have been suitable for Download if their touring schedule allowed.

If you’re going to look at a handful of bands spread over the years then Download have had bands like Dizzie Rascal, Chase and Status,21 Pilots, Die Antwoord and booked the Prodigy before Sonisphere.

 

By the way, I’m not defending Download as I’d love them to change it up a bit,I’m just saying that Sonisphere wasn’t much different.