2023 Festival

[Benj]

23 minutes ago, gfa said:

Billie has done a uk tour and played at glastonbury (which went on sale in 2019 originally so very few 16-20 year olds would have tickets for that anyway). Thats pretty standard for a headliner?

Her tour was far smaller than The Killers and Sam Fender played at every festival under the sun last year along with doing tons of dates + has stadium shows this year. Lewis Capaldi and Foals also everywhere for MSW

--

second point is a different conversation altogether

I said she’s a great headliner for Reading, it’s just she’s a little over exposed to be a barn storming ticket shifter (as is being proven by lackluster ticket sales compared to the last two years)

If AM had toured all the lands before playing Reading, I suspect there would’ve been less of boom to see them too

I’m not doubting her talent or popularity for one second

[gfa]

52 minutes ago, Benj said:

I said she’s a great headliner for Reading, it’s just she’s a little over exposed to be a barn storming ticket shifter (as is being proven by lackluster ticket sales compared to the last two years)

If AM had toured all the lands before playing Reading, I suspect there would’ve been less of boom to see them too

I’m not doubting her talent or popularity for one second

She's toured less than the two other MSE headliners

[Benj]

1 hour ago, gfa said:

She's toured less than the two other MSE headliners

Yup, they’re even less inspiring…

A great set of headliners on paper, only no one’s really bothered as they’ve all been over exposed

As you say loads of kids wouldn’t have had a chance to see them, that audience is locked in already. It’s those who’ve had loads of opportunity to see them/ have tired of them that they’ll struggle to inspire

…as seen on here. No one thinks it’s a crap set of headliners, yet few are really slightly excited by them. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Benj

[James4]

Have Amyl and The Sniffers been announced for this?

[nathanh]

42 minutes ago, James4 said:

Have Amyl and The Sniffers been announced for this?

No they are at APE that same weekend however

[Benj]

4 hours ago, nathanh said:

No they are at APE that same weekend however

Which recently seems to mean they won’t be at Reading

[nathanh]

2 hours ago, Benj said:

Which recently seems to mean they won’t be at Reading

In recent years who have we seen do both. The first and only to come to mind is Charli and she was a last minute replacement

[Chad888]

I'm curious what people think the reason is -

Everybody I speak with, and everywhere I look, people that are die hard music and festival fans and love going R&L are all thinking "meh" this year and haven't got a ticket.

Seems to be the same response on here, we clearly love the festival as we spend all our time discussing it here, but everyone seems very "I don't give a shit".

 

Why?

 

My thought - even though the headliners are big names, they don't have their devoted fans, they're all very much "yeah they're okay". There is nobody playing that people would go out there way to see.

 

Arctic Monkeys was the return of the band of our youth. Dave is the best rapper Britain has produced in a long time. Eminem was probably most people's favourite rapper throughout their youth. RHCP, Blink, Foos were all the "legendary" rock bands of our youth.

 

Sam Fender is the lad with a guitar who's alright, who's music is always on in Tesco.

Billie Eilish is that young girl that did the Bond theme that always seems to be in the charts but nobody seeks out her music.

The Killers were just a band from our younger years.

Lewis Capaldi is that funny lad on Twitter.

Imagine Dragons are the equivalent of that lad that's been stood with your lot for half the night out, before you ask your mate whyd you bring him, he's weird, and he says that he thought you brought him along, and you look at each other like why the fuck is he still there? Who is he? Who the hell invited him and why is he still present? He's just stood there awkwardly with nobody that likes him.

Foals are an "oh shit I forgot about them, they did that song...oh wait, that was Mumford and Sons"

Edited February 14, 2023 by Chad888

[Benj]

16 minutes ago, Chad888 said:

I'm curious what people think the reason is -

Everybody I speak with, and everywhere I look, people that are die hard music and festival fans and love going R&L are all thinking "meh" this year and haven't got a ticket.

Seems to be the same response on here, we clearly love the festival as we spend all our time discussing it here, but everyone seems very "I don't give a shit".

 

Why?

 

My thought - even though the headliners are big names, they don't have their devoted fans, they're all very much "yeah they're okay". There is nobody playing that people would go out there way to see.

 

Arctic Monkeys was the return of the band of our youth. Dave is the best rapper Britain has produced in a long time. Eminem was probably most people's favourite rapper throughout their youth. RHCP, Blink, Foos were all the "legendary" rock bands of our youth.

 

Sam Fender is the lad with a guitar who's alright, who's music is always on in Tesco.

Billie Eilish is that young girl that did the Bond theme that always seems to be in the charts but nobody seeks out her music.

The Killers were just a band from our younger years.

Lewis Capaldi is that funny lad on Twitter.

Imagine Dragons are the equivalent of that lad that's been stood with your lot for half the night out, before you ask your mate whyd you bring him, he's weird, and he says that he thought you brought him along, and you look at each other like why the fuck is he still there? Who is he? Who the hell invited him and why is he still present? He's just stood there awkwardly with nobody that likes him.

Foals are an "oh shit I forgot about them, they did that song...oh wait, that was Mumford and Sons"

Line up is not bad as such just dull
 

…And People now know there’s no longer anything else to see if you don’t like what’s on the main stage, bar the odd TikTok meme in the dance tent.

You basically know now that you’ll be watching Trippie Redd > Wet Leg > Bicep > Carner > Foals > Fender

No choice, no decisions to make, no anticipation, just the metronome back and forth

Its not bad, it’s just boring

Just hope for those going that they put YMAS, Broco or similar size acts to headline the FR for at least some choice at the end of the night 

 

 

 

[stanh]

My issue is, out of the headliners I'm fussed about, I've seen them all so recently - so there is nothing really all that exclusive to entice me to do it. I'm sure that'll be the case with quite a few other people too. Even when you look at it, headline wise, it's not been all too hard to catch any of them live if you tried (even when you chuck Glastonbury out of the equation).

Billie Eilish - Arena tour and Glastonbury last year

Sam Fender - Multiple UK tours, headlined/performed at multiple festivals and Finsbury Park last year. St James' Park (x2) and TRNSMT this year

The Killers - Stadium tour last year

Lewis Capaldi - Large/headline slots at festivals, O2 Arena (x2), performed at radio station arena events last year. Arena tour, large outdoor shows this year

Imagine Dragons - Stadium MK last year

Foals - Arena/large academy tour, large/headline slots at festivals last year. Intimate academy tour this year

[andyrhodes24]

For me it’s a case of the entire thing looking bang average. Beyond the headliners some of the logo acts are laughably weak - Steve Lacy, Chase Atlantic, Lil Tjay, Declan McKenna.

We’ve talked in past years about the MSW headliners being glorified subs but this year’s trio shouldn’t be at headline level.

[nathanh]

The reason its not selling as well is 3 factors for me:

-As @stanhsaid there isn't much exclusivity in acts and have already been seen so extensively recently

-This year being the first year without covid having a knock on effect as last year people were buying tickets to be back at a festival

-Cost of living crisis. This cant be ignored, Reading is by no means a cheap weekend and if people can get the same enjoyment out of somewhere cheaper than they likely will. 

[stanh]

Yep completely agree.

19 minutes ago, andyrhodes24 said:

For me it’s a case of the entire thing looking bang average. Beyond the headliners some of the logo acts are laughably weak - Steve Lacy, Chase Atlantic, Lil Tjay, Declan McKenna.

Would also add this, the lineup (as it currently is) just looks so so weak. If the headline acts especially had been more of an 'exclusive' booking, I think it would have done a lot better by now, because on paper it is a strong trio of headliners, but considering how much they've done here recently, paired with some pretty weak subs (par from a few) it just doesn't look like a lineup worth parting with £290+ for, especially for one of the UK's biggest festivals. 

[andyrhodes24]

30 minutes ago, stanh said:

Yep completely agree.

Would also add this, the lineup (as it currently is) just looks so so weak. If the headline acts especially had been more of an 'exclusive' booking, I think it would have done a lot better by now, because on paper it is a strong trio of headliners, but considering how much they've done here recently, paired with some pretty weak subs (par from a few) it just doesn't look like a lineup worth parting with £290+ for, especially for one of the UK's biggest festivals. 

Yeah it’d be a lot of money at previous prices but £290+ is a massive outlay for what they’ve announced so far. Seriously tempted by Y Not instead with Royal Blood, Kasabian, Paul Weller as the headliners at £160ish.

Fwiw I know I’m old by R&L standards at 28 but I’d genuinely never heard of Steve Lacy before the first announcement. Is he actually sub size?

[stanh]

2 minutes ago, andyrhodes24 said:

Fwiw I know I’m old by R&L standards at 28 but I’d genuinely never heard of Steve Lacy before the first announcement. Is he actually sub size?

Hard one to call with his lack of shows, he sold out the roundhouse near enough instantly, and is very big amongst the TikTok crowd - and I must say, is quite an exciting artist, beyond Bad Habit. Looks like he is in a similar sort of slot at Lowlands (some overlap also includes Foals, Billie, Loyle and Bicep). I'd say he's a logo act for R&L, which slot he *should* be doing though I'm not too sure. 

6 minutes ago, andyrhodes24 said:

Yeah it’d be a lot of money at previous prices but £290+ is a massive outlay for what they’ve announced so far. Seriously tempted by Y Not instead with Royal Blood, Kasabian, Paul Weller as the headliners at £160ish.

Yeah, that is certainly another factor putting me off. Especially when I can do the full weekend at Creamfields for a similar price, and then also being able to pick between multiple acts as a headline, instead of having a much reduced offering that R&L have with their current setup. Agreed about the likes of YNOT, Truck etc offering pretty solid lineups for the cost, which leads on to other festivals with a younger demographic, such as Parklife who have smashed it this year (around £150 for the weekend) then Boardmasters too, which I reckon has tempted a lot of the Reading crowd as well, with (currently) for their standards a pretty strong lineup, and LG/Florence being solid headliners, plus LG as an exclusive. 

[Chad888]

Is it another factor, not just the shows they've done, but the constant airtime they get?

It doesn't really make it feel ... special.

 

Every day you listen to 30 minutes of any radio station and its Billie Eilish, Wet Leg, 1975, Sam Fender, Lewis Capaldi, Stormzy, Harry Styles.

 

Watching them stand on stage and sing isn't really that impressive because you hear the music so much its just a blur now, and you realise you're just paying £350 just to see the stage set up.

[andyrhodes24]

9 hours ago, Chad888 said:

Is it another factor, not just the shows they've done, but the constant airtime they get?

It doesn't really make it feel ... special.

 

Every day you listen to 30 minutes of any radio station and its Billie Eilish, Wet Leg, 1975, Sam Fender, Lewis Capaldi, Stormzy, Harry Styles.

 

Watching them stand on stage and sing isn't really that impressive because you hear the music so much its just a blur now, and you realise you're just paying £350 just to see the stage set up.

The weekend’s Brit awards was almost a televised R&L event which shows the direction it’s going/gone in. 

I never pay too much attention to it but it says a lot that The 1975 won best alternative/rock act while Tom Grennan was nominated in the same category. Wild.

[gfa]

10 hours ago, Chad888 said:

Is it another factor, not just the shows they've done, but the constant airtime they get?

It doesn't really make it feel ... special.

 

Every day you listen to 30 minutes of any radio station and its Billie Eilish, Wet Leg, 1975, Sam Fender, Lewis Capaldi, Stormzy, Harry Styles.

 

Watching them stand on stage and sing isn't really that impressive because you hear the music so much its just a blur now, and you realise you're just paying £350 just to see the stage set up.

If I sat listening to radio x all day none of the superstruct festivals would feel special

if i sat listening to radio 6 all day glasto wouldn't

absolute/kerrang for download etc etc

What a stupid take

---

If anything you hear far less of this year's top 6 last year i'd say. All of them get significant playtime except halsey (counting 1975, not RATM). Killers, Foals and Imagine Dragons don't get play time much from this year's lot

silly argument regardless

Edited February 15, 2023 by gfa

[BenG92]

It's quite simply just not for us any more and that's fine. There were definitely people who went in 2003 for Metallica / Linkin Park / Blur who looked at 2013 and thought "a rapper headlining subbed by some DJs? in fact DJs all over the poster? no thanks, I'm out". 

It's easy to think of The Killers as a booking for those who remember 2004 but they're massive in their own right today, loads of kids are listening to them in the way that I was starting to listen to Nirvana (not comparing the bands) long long after Kurt was dead. Billie's enormous with that crowd. Loads of grime etc. that old men yelling at clouds don't understand.

I haven't done a full weekend there since 2011 and 2014 was the last time I even wanted to go to the whole thing. I think people are pretending the festival hasn't been shifting for much longer than it has

[charlierc]

2 hours ago, BenG92 said:

It's easy to think of The Killers as a booking for those who remember 2004 but they're massive in their own right today, loads of kids are listening to them in the way that I was starting to listen to Nirvana (not comparing the bands) long long after Kurt was dead. Billie's enormous with that crowd. Loads of grime etc. that old men yelling at clouds don't understand.

Indeed Billie Eilish might be part of that crowd as she said in an interview she was a big fan of Hot Fuss, including a certain headline-grabbing observation: Billie Eilish used to “sit in the car and cry” to The Killers' 'Mr Brightside' (nme.com)

But yeah at the stadium show of TK's I saw last year and a lot of videos from other dates, there's a cross-section of ages there including some who would've been in their teens/early 20s when The Killers blew up and some of that age group now.

Edited February 15, 2023 by charlierc

[JSmurphy]

It appears no Turnstile at Download.

[Benj]

6 hours ago, BenG92 said:

It's quite simply just not for us any more and that's fine. There were definitely people who went in 2003 for Metallica / Linkin Park / Blur who looked at 2013 and thought "a rapper headlining subbed by some DJs? in fact DJs all over the poster? no thanks, I'm out". 

It's easy to think of The Killers as a booking for those who remember 2004 but they're massive in their own right today, loads of kids are listening to them in the way that I was starting to listen to Nirvana (not comparing the bands) long long after Kurt was dead. Billie's enormous with that crowd. Loads of grime etc. that old men yelling at clouds don't understand.

I haven't done a full weekend there since 2011 and 2014 was the last time I even wanted to go to the whole thing. I think people are pretending the festival hasn't been shifting for much longer than it has

No one is saying it’s bad though or not for them that’s the point

I went in 2003, I went in 2013, I’m not going in 2023

Not because it’s bad or I don’t like the lineup but just because it’s boring.

There’s nothing new or interesting there, no alternative to the ‘Brit Awards’

That is what has changed - the removal of the alternative, the removal of interesting and it’s a direct result of cutting the lineup by 30%

They can no longer make interesting bookings as they don’t have the slots for them. 

The festival will still well to the majority who only come for the ‘Brit awards’ us hardcore on here are music fans, who want beyond the obvious. 

Post 2019 Reading can’t offer that. So off we go…

 

TLDR - in 2013 you had Jake Bugg and Alt J as an alternative to Eminem and Chase and Status ( I actually watched British Sea Power that night). These days you don’t have those options…

The acts have not changed. The options have

Edited February 15, 2023 by Benj

[BenG92]

1 minute ago, Benj said:

No one is saying it’s bad though or not for them that’s the point

I went in 2003, I went in 2013, I’m not going in 2023

Not because it’s bad or I don’t like the lineup but just because it’s boring.

There’s nothing new or interesting there, no alternative to the ‘Brit Awards’

That is what has changed - the removal of the alternative, the removal of interesting and it’s a direct result of cutting the lineup by 30%

They can no longer make interesting bookings as they don’t have the slots for them. 

The festival will still well to the majority who only come for the ‘Brit awards’ us hardcore on here are music fans, who want beyond the obvious. 

Post 2019 Reading can’t offer that. So off we go…

See I look at 2013 and it's largely got nothing to do with being "interesting" outside of NIN - maybe Phoenix - it's just a quality fucking lineup. Deftones > SOAD > Green Day was an outrageous run even by 2013 standards. Nobody fascinating, just some really quality names. Which RnL23 still has, I just personally am not fussed this time. Bet I'll be back for a day next year. It's fine to have some off years, I certainly have. 

[NorthernSoul52]

I'd entirely forgotten Imagine Dragons did Stadium:mk.

Bizarre they played that. Honestly didn't feel they were big enough for a stadium.

[gfa]

7 minutes ago, Benj said:

I went in 2003, I went in 2013, I’m not going in 2023

Not because it’s bad or I don’t like the lineup but just because it’s boring.

I am wholeheartedly shocked that a festival aimed at 16-22 year olds is boring aged 40+