2023 Festival

[gfa]

57 minutes ago, Benj said:

I didn’t ignore it, Boomtown pay people to take away rubbish not their tents…

It’s classed as a eco-bond but the amount of rubbish is the same, there is no eco benefit, they’re basically just saving costs getting the punters to do it/ pay extra for it to be done!!  Don’t be fooled by such an easy cash grab 😂

The tents are the thing that’s the issue not the rubbish. The rubbish is already waste, no matter who cleans it up, the tents are not, they can be reused they are the only environmental gain…

Id say at reading encouraging kids to take out a bag of rubbish for 20 quid is more likely to make them leave their tents …

Even the rubbish being clear and tents staying is better than the state its in now.

Not sure why your so convinced that 'do nothing' is the best approach....

37 minutes ago, gblock said:

They certainly haven't done enough, but the introduction of eco camps last year and expanding them this year is at least a step in the right direction tbf. Heard they were left almost completely spotless. Other than literally having police on site Monday morning to arrest people for littering, I don't know how the festival can actually force the kids to pack up their tents. Like Benj said, eco bonds are difficult to implement successfully. 

It may not be right the first year but they could at least try an eco bond... its worked for other festivals in different formats, they just need to find a way that works for them

They do the same 'take your tent home' rubbish social media campaign every year and it does nothing

[Benj]

7 minutes ago, gfa said:

Even the rubbish being clear and tents staying is better than the state its in now.

Not sure why your so convinced that 'do nothing' is the best approach....

In that it looks less sh*t perhaps yes

Environmentally it makes pretty much zero difference as to who picks it up though.

Taking the tents and leaving the rubbish would be much better for the environment.

They did in the past have incentives for garbage bags delivered, I think it was in the Carling days and it was beer. Not sure if that would be allowed now

 

I’ve not suggested they should do nothing.

As per Gblock, I think they need to get the artists on board somehow make it taboo to leave your tent, in lieu of any practical financial incentive they can offer.

 

 

[Paul ™]

White Eco Camp on Monday afternoon.

I think more of these areas will help, slowly introduce them in every campsite and offer incentives if possible.

It's not as bad as usual here, the salvagers didn't need 2 days to get what they could and less than usual I hear.

[Benj]

7 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

White Eco Camp on Monday afternoon.

I think more of these areas will help, slowly introduce them in every campsite and offer incentives if possible.

It's not as bad as usual here, the salvagers didn't need 2 days to get what they could and less than usual I hear.

👍🏼

Do you know if they were provided with additional clean up provisions/ any additional help?

Hopefully they’ll expand this again next year it’s obviously successful.

One additional thing I’ve thought of though is that White is nicely near the car park

I wonder how much more would be taken back if people could transport it more easily to their transport home?

Again it’s hard to imagine what could be don’t to aid this in any way as things stand

 

 

[gfa]

29 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

White Eco Camp on Monday afternoon.

I think more of these areas will help, slowly introduce them in every campsite and offer incentives if possible.

It's not as bad as usual here, the salvagers didn't need 2 days to get what they could and less than usual I hear.

They can grow this so much but eventually there won't be enough shithole campsites and people will just get eco campsite tickets to have space etc

Currently its just pushed all the people who do care into one or two fields and left the main campsites even more dense with left behind tents

Its just grouping clean people and dirty people together, its not actually solving the problem imo

[Benj]

26 minutes ago, gfa said:

They can grow this so much but eventually there won't be enough shithole campsites and people will just get eco campsite tickets to have space etc

Currently its just pushed all the people who do care into one or two fields and left the main campsites even more dense with left behind tents

Its just grouping clean people and dirty people together, its not actually solving the problem imo

Potential benefit is that others will feel shamed into doing it

It would be interesting to see what the Green eco camp was like too, as I’d imagine white would naturally better anyway…

[gblock]

11 minutes ago, gfa said:

Currently its just pushed all the people who do care into one or two fields and left the main campsites even more dense with left behind tents

Its just grouping clean people and dirty people together, its not actually solving the problem imo

It's not an immediate fix no, but I think it will help change the attitude and culture over time. I imagine the strategy FR are taking is to slowly increase the size of eco camps until most of the festival is.

There would 100% have been people in the eco camp pictured above that only took home all their stuff because everyone else around them was. Young people are very impressionable. It's almost acceptable right now to leave everything behind in the main campsite because the kids get told by their older classmates that's what they did.

Appreciate that the argument ofc is that a lot more needs to be done, but I don't think FR care that much, nor believe there is much else they can effectively do. And on the latter part, I'm almost resigned to agree with them tbh

[gfa]

41 minutes ago, gblock said:

It's not an immediate fix no, but I think it will help change the attitude and culture over time. I imagine the strategy FR are taking is to slowly increase the size of eco camps until most of the festival is.

There would 100% have been people in the eco camp pictured above that only took home all their stuff because everyone else around them was. Young people are very impressionable. It's almost acceptable right now to leave everything behind in the main campsite because the kids get told by their older classmates that's what they did.

Appreciate that the argument ofc is that a lot more needs to be done, but I don't think FR care that much, nor believe there is much else they can effectively do. And on the latter part, I'm almost resigned to agree with them tbh

They clearly don't care though, i'm not debating that at all haha

They don't do anything to encourage people to take tents home at their other festivals really either - while some its less of an issue like Latitude, i bet tons are left at Creamfields which has an on average older audience.

[Paul ™]

27 minutes ago, gfa said:

They clearly don't care though, i'm not debating that at all haha

They don't do anything to encourage people to take tents home at their other festivals really either - while some its less of an issue like Latitude, i bet tons are left at Creamfields which has an on average older audience.

FR have no involvement at Creamfields.

[gfa]

27 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

FR have no involvement at Creamfields.

my mistake although the point still stands, other festivals have sorted it or at least made progress

[Benj]

 

33 minutes ago, gfa said:

my mistake although the point still stands, other festivals have sorted it or at least made progress

Has it ever been a massive problem at other festivals? 

What's the closest to Reading demographic wise, Boardmasters? Anyone know what it's like there?

 

Edit - had a quick search and it’s seems similar, if not quite so bad from some other vids

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12405149/amp/Boardmasters-Festival-ground-littered-discarded-tents-folding-chairs-rubbish-revellers-battled-home-terrible-conditions.html

Edited August 30, 2023 by Benj

[andyrhodes24]

Interesting couple of questions on the survey currently on the apps:

1. Did you take your tent home with you?

2. Did you buy your ticket yourself or did someone gift it to you?

[charlierc]

On 8/28/2023 at 10:45 PM, Andre91 said:

It’s the undercard that has become the problem, I think. It’s just so scattergun now that it makes it hard for people to justify a day ticket to see whichever headliner they fancy. 

I mean, that was the case for me. Although had it been Killers+Foals, I could've still sucked it up and gone.

[wghennessy]

Make people pay £20 deposit, they get a ticket, they take their tent away and can present it clearly they get it back. Wouldnt stop everyone but would make people think imo

[Will b]

6 hours ago, Benj said:

What's the closest to Reading demographic wise, Boardmasters? Anyone know what it's like there?

Boardies has an eco bond for the rubbish tbag works quite well - the 2 tjmes I’ve been (2021+22) I saw a considerable amount of people returning their bin bags of rubbish. They also have a dedicated volunteer eco team who basically spend all Monday cleaning up, so that by Tuesday you can barely tell there were campsites there (shout out to the green team they’re awesome!)

However the amount of tents left behind is probably similar / slightly less bad than r&l as you say. I actually came home from 2021 with an extra tent bcs I picked up a 2 man that had been disguarded in light of the fact that the tent i origionally bought had been labelled the piss tent and thus urinated on multiple times. The last 2 years have seen camp-war situations too

ultimately it’s a reflection on the parents that raise children who think it’s ok to litter and ruin the earth like that. It shouldn’t be the festivals job to discourage such behaviour, but as it happens it is, and I agree that some sort of bond/deposit would be worth a try 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Will b

[gfa]

6 hours ago, Benj said:

 

Has it ever been a massive problem at other festivals? 

What's the closest to Reading demographic wise, Boardmasters? Anyone know what it's like there?

 

Edit - had a quick search and it’s seems similar, if not quite so bad from some other vids

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12405149/amp/Boardmasters-Festival-ground-littered-discarded-tents-folding-chairs-rubbish-revellers-battled-home-terrible-conditions.html

google boomtown - no idea how much its changed since but theres some pretty bad photos on the internet

surely its worth a trial year anyway?? I can't fathom why they could not at least do that

maybe from all the money saved cleaning up after they can bring back your big tent mate

7 minutes ago, Will b said:

Boardies has an eco bond for the rubbish tbag works quite well - the 2 tjmes I’ve been (2021+22) I saw a considerable amount of people returning their bin bags of rubbish. They also have a dedicated volunteer eco team who basically spend all Monday cleaning up, so that by Tuesday you can barely tell there were campsites there (shout out to the green team they’re awesome!)

However the amount of tents left behind is probably similar / slightly less bad than r&l as you say. I actually came home from 2021 with an extra tent bcs I picked up a 2 man that had been disguarded in light of the fact that the tent i origionally bought had been labelled the piss tent and thus urinated on multiple times. The last 2 years have seen camp-war situations too

ultimately it’s a reflection on the parents that raise children who think it’s ok to litter and ruin the earth like that. It shouldn’t be the festivals job to discourage such behaviour, but as it happens it is, and I agree that some sort of bond/deposit would be worth a try 

Imo its more because people buy £20 tents that get ruined / are seen as disposable vs something you'd actually want to keep, lug home and clean for next year

[Benj]

1 hour ago, Will b said:

Boardies has an eco bond for the rubbish tbag works quite well - the 2 tjmes I’ve been (2021+22) I saw a considerable amount of people returning their bin bags of rubbish. They also have a dedicated volunteer eco team who basically spend all Monday cleaning up, so that by Tuesday you can barely tell there were campsites there (shout out to the green team they’re awesome!)

 

Paying people to clean up is paying people to clean up, calling it an eco-bond is just PR bullshit. It all ends up in the same landfill

Fair play to those that volunteer to clean up, they’re ultimately just saving the organisers money though, they must love it

Edited August 30, 2023 by Benj

[On The Blend]

5 hours ago, Benj said:

Paying people to clean up is paying people to clean up, calling it an eco-bond is just PR bullshit. It all ends up in the same landfill

Isn’t this backwards? An eco bond would not be paying people to clean up, it would be people paying not to clean up (assuming that the eco bond is added on top of standard admission).

It is genuinely an interesting design problem though. I like the idea of slowly expanding eco camp to try and change the culture via peer pressure, that feels more robust than carrot/ stick style approaches.

[Hirstys 12th Pint]

18 hours ago, gfa said:

Even the rubbish being clear and tents staying is better than the state its in now.

Not sure why your so convinced that 'do nothing' is the best approach....

It may not be right the first year but they could at least try an eco bond... its worked for other festivals in different formats, they just need to find a way that works for them

They do the same 'take your tent home' rubbish social media campaign every year and it does nothing

When my lad was packing to go to Leeds he did ask for some bin bags for their rubbish.  Was quite shocked but impressed.  Whether they got filled is a different matter.

The tent did come back though.

 

[gblock]

3 hours ago, On The Blend said:

Isn’t this backwards? An eco bond would not be paying people to clean up, it would be people paying not to clean up (assuming that the eco bond is added on top of standard admission).

It is genuinely an interesting design problem though. I like the idea of slowly expanding eco camp to try and change the culture via peer pressure, that feels more robust than carrot/ stick style approaches.

Eco bond would just be charging those that leave their tents behind. Could work via a wristband – you show your tent at the ticket exchange and are given a corresponding ‘tent’ wristband, which can be shown at the end of the festival with proof of a packed up tent – rescan your ticket to get the deposit back a few days later.

Problem is that it would require the ticket exchangers to check everyone on entry and exit, probably causing pretty long delays. Could be successful if organised properly though 

I agree it’s a bit of a backwards incentive, but it would provide a quicker solution to the behavioural change via eco camps, even though this is the way forward FR are most likely taking imo

Edited August 31, 2023 by gblock

[Optix]

I remember tpdtv making a showing of coachella having cleanup in their "rules" and overall the space being pretty clean. But as everyone has said different demographic.

I'm not sure how I feel about the £20 eco bond as if youre paying this high price for a weekend ticket, whats another 20 pounds, thats like 2-3 beers in this current economic landscape. I would personally want to see it higher to actually incentivize the cleanup.

Without a push most people would just take the 20 pound hit and who gets that sneaky profit, FR to pay for cleanup and a tasty little bonus on the side for not doing much more.

Theres also an argument to be made about the eco camp expansion as to what point does it become too saturated and has no effect, the bigger it becomes at some point the more space gets taken up by the people who don't care and therefore your social/peer pressure to clean up is reduced.

Will something like Becky Hill talking about how tents can't be recycled as easily as most things lead to some improvement? I guess so but we have had bands like Enter Shikari making it a point to spend some time in every set of theirs to highlight the issues for at least a decade now and theyre basically a house band at Reading.

It really is a super interesting topic to figure out.

 

[Optix]

59 minutes ago, gblock said:

Eco bond would just be charging those that leave their tents behind. Could work via a wristband – you show your tent at the ticket exchange and are given a corresponding ‘tent’ wristband, which can be shown at the end of the festival with proof of a packed up tent – rescan your ticket to get the deposit back a few days later.

Problem is that it would require the ticket exchangers to check everyone on entry and exit, probably causing pretty long delays. Could be successful if organised properly though 

I agree it’s a bit of a backwards incentive, but it would provide a quicker solution to the behavioural change via eco camps, even though this is the way forward FR are most likely taking imo

Sorry for the double post but I like this idea. Maybe use cashless wristbands or an nfc scanning wristband thats exclusive for the eco bond trial you can sign up for, reduce your weekend ticket by 20 pounds as long as you scan it on the way out. R&L can have an exclusive exit line or 2 at each exit with a scanner thats manned by an attendant to visually "identify" a tent. It doesn't seem like too much added cost up front for R&L and a possible method to implement the system in a first year trial.

[gfa]

16 minutes ago, Optix said:

I remember tpdtv making a showing of coachella having cleanup in their "rules" and overall the space being pretty clean. But as everyone has said different demographic.

I'm not sure how I feel about the £20 eco bond as if youre paying this high price for a weekend ticket, whats another 20 pounds, thats like 2-3 beers in this current economic landscape. I would personally want to see it higher to actually incentivize the cleanup.

Without a push most people would just take the 20 pound hit and who gets that sneaky profit, FR to pay for cleanup and a tasty little bonus on the side for not doing much more.

Theres also an argument to be made about the eco camp expansion as to what point does it become too saturated and has no effect, the bigger it becomes at some point the more space gets taken up by the people who don't care and therefore your social/peer pressure to clean up is reduced.

Will something like Becky Hill talking about how tents can't be recycled as easily as most things lead to some improvement? I guess so but we have had bands like Enter Shikari making it a point to spend some time in every set of theirs to highlight the issues for at least a decade now and theyre basically a house band at Reading.

It really is a super interesting topic to figure out.

 

This is bang on

1 hour ago, gblock said:

Eco bond would just be charging those that leave their tents behind. Could work via a wristband – you show your tent at the ticket exchange and are given a corresponding ‘tent’ wristband, which can be shown at the end of the festival with proof of a packed up tent – rescan your ticket to get the deposit back a few days later.

Problem is that it would require the ticket exchangers to check everyone on entry and exit, probably causing pretty long delays. Could be successful if organised properly though 

I agree it’s a bit of a backwards incentive, but it would provide a quicker solution to the behavioural change via eco camps, even though this is the way forward FR are most likely taking imo

Perhaps they could stamp a hole through your weekend wristband if you have a tent and you get charged with one of those little card readers, then as you leave you show your tent + hole in band to get given a voucher / £20 off next year

possibly open to abuse as people could nick tents and stamp a hole but a rough idea..

[Benj]

4 hours ago, On The Blend said:

Isn’t this backwards? An eco bond would not be paying people to clean up, it would be people paying not to clean up (assuming that the eco bond is added on top of standard admission).

It is genuinely an interesting design problem though. I like the idea of slowly expanding eco camp to try and change the culture via peer pressure, that feels more robust than carrot/ stick style approaches.

Well, yes, in effect it’s exactly that, you’re a tariff for them to cover their cleaning costs.

Them wrapping it up as some glorious green initiative is just PR spin at covering costs unless they’re giving the excess to charity/ carbon offsetting, which strangely enough they don’t mention in their eco-bond terms 🤔

As discussed, while some way of checking your tents in and out with a deposit would be great at ensuring they went home with you, it’s simply not practical to run with 80,000 people.

The problems are

1. Tents are cheap

2. People are tired

3. It’s a long way home carrying them

 

How could these be fixed? Spitballying

1. Government impose green tax on all tents at point of purchase. Very few tents were left in the days they were a significant investment.

sh*t idea, as it would harm everyone who just wants a cheap hol…

2. The festival could have teams/ volunteers that help people take their tents down on the Monday AM?  Again not slightly practical on a large scale really but could make an impact and encourage others to put the effort in?

3. Provide a more robust way to ship people back to the station/ their cars/ pickup.

Again in the old days when car parks were directly adjacent to the camping, far less was left behind.

Again hard to envisage a way to this happen

 

TLDR- Ultimately I think your final point is the only real way it will make things better.

They need to change mindsets, make people realise it’s not acceptable and that they need to out the effort in, as part of their festival experience to take the tent home AND importantly still reuse it/ pass it on for the next time

 

 

 

 

[FrogLobster]

£20 is too little. Thats like the cost of a burger and a drink now! Kids on their parent's coin aren't going to give a sh*t about that amount.

Make the ticket something bananas like a grand and then they get the 700 quid back if they prove they have taken their tent and camping gear as they leave the campsite. Make a big statement out of it. Gets a discussion going between parents/kids etc.

Edited August 31, 2023 by FrogLobster