Football 2022/23

[Skip997]

FFS BBC England are out get over it!

[kaosmark2]

That was a lot closer than what that scoreline tells you.

[steviewevie]

What a shame. 

[pink_triangle]

36 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

That was a lot closer than what that scoreline tells you.

The trouble is Morocco played good football, but just really lacked that decent forward.

[kaosmark2]

25 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The trouble is Morocco played good football, but just really lacked that decent forward.

Absolutely. I think a lot of their players will be in line for moves though.

[pink_triangle]

While all the criticism of the decision to give Qatar are valid. It may be recency bias, but I am thinking (on the pitch) this is the best world cup since France 98.

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

While all the criticism of the decision to give Qatar are valid. It may be recency bias, but I am thinking (on the pitch) this is the best world cup since France 98.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/14/migrant-worker-dies-world-cup-lusail-stadium-john-njau-kibue-qatar

The last paragraph is very chilling:

"The SC has confirmed an investigation into the death. The chief executive of the World Cup, Nasser al-Khater, appeared to dismiss concerns over the tragedy. “Death is a natural part of life, whether it’s at work, whether it’s in your sleep,” he said in response to questions about the death, first reported by the Athletic.

 

“We’re in the middle of a World Cup. And we have a successful World Cup. And this is something you want to talk about right now?” he said."

The football has been good, but I also have very fond memories of both Japan/s Korea and South Africa world cups. Brazil was excellent as well.

However, that criticism cannot go quiet regardless of the quality of football, as that is exactly their goal. To shut up critics and sportswash over the abuse, manslaughter, entrapment, and murder that is still going on.

 

[pink_triangle]

17 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/14/migrant-worker-dies-world-cup-lusail-stadium-john-njau-kibue-qatar

The last paragraph is very chilling:

"The SC has confirmed an investigation into the death. The chief executive of the World Cup, Nasser al-Khater, appeared to dismiss concerns over the tragedy. “Death is a natural part of life, whether it’s at work, whether it’s in your sleep,” he said in response to questions about the death, first reported by the Athletic.

 

“We’re in the middle of a World Cup. And we have a successful World Cup. And this is something you want to talk about right now?” he said."

The football has been good, but I also have very fond memories of both Japan/s Korea and South Africa world cups. Brazil was excellent as well.

However, that criticism cannot go quiet regardless of the quality of football, as that is exactly their goal. To shut up critics and sportswash over the abuse, manslaughter, entrapment, and murder that is still going on.

 

Oh I completely agree. The tournament should never have gone there. I am however more open minded about a winter world cup now. I think the players have been overall fitter. I also am now questioning the role of alcohol. I think limiting it has overall not been a terrible thing, however also noting the location probably stopped a lot of idiots travelling.

Its a game of opinions, but I thought WC 02 was a poor one. Spain and Italy screwed by officials, a lot of mediocre teams progressing through the knockouts, a really poor Germany team coming second and completely carried by 2 players.

[steviewevie]

the football has been pretty good, shame about the dead bodies, human rights and the corruption.

[kaosmark2]

31 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

One of the problems we have though is if we say a world cup should never go to a country who "values" don't align with western "values" then we have a problem which borders on racist.  Kind of rules out most the middle east and Africa.  I wonder when did the "World" Cup become something we own.

I also think we need to talk more about Grenfell Tower in this country than migrant workers dieing in Qatar.    We have so many issues to resolve here and they are barely spoke about.  Also our national state supported religion also have a stance very much similar to ours in the terms of homosexuality etc.  Hypocritical much.

At leas the next World Cup is going a nice western country that has no issues.  God Bless America.

So a big issue with Qatar is infrastructure. There were many more migrants workers dying because they didn't have any appropriate stadia built before. 

There are other North African/middle Eastern countries that aren't as oppressive on homophobia, and already have a successful football league and national team. Morocco and Egypt come to mind instantly, and Morocco would certainly be strict on alcohol and public intoxication, but I think it still has solved stadia over 20k built anyway. It would certainly be a genuine, reasonable choice.

I agree on the US btw, take it away from them and let Mexico host it on their own.

[rivalschools.price]

4 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

So a big issue with Qatar is infrastructure. There were many more migrants workers dying because they didn't have any appropriate stadia built before. 

There are other North African/middle Eastern countries that aren't as oppressive on homophobia, and already have a successful football league and national team. Morocco and Egypt come to mind instantly, and Morocco would certainly be strict on alcohol and public intoxication, but I think it still has solved stadia over 20k built anyway. It would certainly be a genuine, reasonable choice.

I agree on the US btw, take it away from them and let Mexico host it on their own.

Morocco may be strict on alcohol but most of the fans interviewed outside the ground yesterday did appear to be, ahem, high on life.

[kaosmark2]

20 minutes ago, rivalschools.price said:

Morocco may be strict on alcohol but most of the fans interviewed outside the ground yesterday did appear to be, ahem, high on life.

Lol

[kaosmark2]

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

While all the criticism of the decision to give Qatar are valid. It may be recency bias, but I am thinking (on the pitch) this is the best world cup since France 98.

One thing I do want to say, is that the first round of group games had a lot of 0-0s and stomps. Not a lot of high scoring draws or 2-1/3-2 even games. Saudi-Argies aside, I felt it was a fairly dull opening round.

[charlierc]

9 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

While all the criticism of the decision to give Qatar are valid. It may be recency bias, but I am thinking (on the pitch) this is the best world cup since France 98.

Eh. It's been a good tournament with some exceptional games but I think I preferred the last 2 World Cup tournaments. It may be as much how I enjoyed those tournaments though, or maybe in my head comes with it the uncanny valley of watching World Cup games with Christmas trees and snow everywhere.

[charlierc]

4 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I agree on the US btw, take it away from them and let Mexico host it on their own.

Tbf Mexico has hosted it solo twice. In theory I can see why Canada might need to piggy back given the criticism they got for making the 2015 Women's World Cup play exclusively on astro turf and the nation historically being more into other sports, but I'm befuddled as to why the next World Cup needs to be held across North America.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

Tbf Mexico has hosted it solo twice. In theory I can see why Canada might need to piggy back given the criticism they got for making the 2015 Women's World Cup play exclusively on astro turf and the nation historically being more into other sports, but I'm befuddled as to why the next World Cup needs to be held across North America.

Mexico 86 was 24 teams, I think the next world cup is 48.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

Tbf Mexico has hosted it solo twice. In theory I can see why Canada might need to piggy back given the criticism they got for making the 2015 Women's World Cup play exclusively on astro turf and the nation historically being more into other sports, but I'm befuddled as to why the next World Cup needs to be held across North America.

That was earlier when it was smaller and required less infrastructure.

The USA need to piggy back more than Mexico though. I think Mexico accepted as it strengthened their own, rather than them needing to.

On the infrastructure thing, if it were to be one country, basically you've got England/Germany/Spain/Italy/Brazil/Argentina and to a lesser extend Mexico/USA/France that can solo-host respectably (enough sufficiently large stadia before hand). Virtually everywhere else needs to co-host, and I absolutely support there being a default of two countries so smaller countries can. 2030 has a 4-countries in South America bid, which feels like 1 too many to me but still pretty cool. I like the idea of it being across NorthWest Africa, with Morocco/Algeria/Tunisia

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

Eh. It's been a good tournament with some exceptional games but I think I preferred the last 2 World Cup tournaments. It may be as much how I enjoyed those tournaments though, or maybe in my head comes with it the uncanny valley of watching World Cup games with Christmas trees and snow everywhere.

To me a big part of the tournament are the hosts on that basis I would agree Brazil was better. This tournament has no real identity, it is just a load of football matches.

In terms of the football matches you had the group stage shocks, but most of the big teams still going through, a very good final set of group games. Some fun teams like Japan and Australia that made their point, but didn't outstay their welcome. A competitive underdog like Morocco. Also it's delivered a more exciting final than 2018 which was hampered by a skewed knockouts with the best teams on one half of the draw.

[steviewevie]

The best World Cup final pictures (bbc.co.uk)

[charlierc]

21 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

To me a big part of the tournament are the hosts on that basis I would agree Brazil was better. This tournament has no real identity, it is just a load of football matches.

In terms of the football matches you had the group stage shocks, but most of the big teams still going through, a very good final set of group games. Some fun teams like Japan and Australia that made their point, but didn't outstay their welcome. A competitive underdog like Morocco. Also it's delivered a more exciting final than 2018 which was hampered by a skewed knockouts with the best teams on one half of the draw.

Infantino at FIFA has piped up claiming this is the best World Cup ever. But then he would say that.

As noted Infantino declared the 2018 tournament showed a new side to Russia, and then also went to Moscow to receive a medal from Putin personally in 2019, only for FIFA to have to ban Russia from this World Cup when it became apparent nobody wanted to play them in the wake of Putin's Ukraine attack.

I obviously can only comment remotely as I'm not there but there is an oddness to it. People on the ground there remark of it having this odd quality to it. There's been some good games throughout so on a sporting level, yeah, it's had plenty of merits, but it feels like a harder World Cup to love than some others.

[Neil]

Infantano has been taking public relations, lessons from Michael Eavis. 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

Infantino at FIFA has piped up claiming this is the best World Cup ever. But then he would say that.

As noted Infantino declared the 2018 tournament showed a new side to Russia, and then also went to Moscow to receive a medal from Putin personally in 2019, only for FIFA to have to ban Russia from this World Cup when it became apparent nobody wanted to play them in the wake of Putin's Ukraine attack.

I obviously can only comment remotely as I'm not there but there is an oddness to it. People on the ground there remark of it having this odd quality to it. There's been some good games throughout so on a sporting level, yeah, it's had plenty of merits, but it feels like a harder World Cup to love than some others.

He's trying to tell us what to think. Same as has happened throughout the tournament with the state sponsored fan packages from other countries.

[Neil]

20 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think its been one of the better world cups sitting at home.  Reports on the ground in Qatar have largely been good.  The BBC 5 Live team where saying the other day its been really good.  Great stadiums, good atmosphere, free transport.   Their words.

all matches in the one city, different to other wc's.

[steviewevie]

France or Argentina? BET NOW!

I'm going for France just to kill the vibe.

[pink_triangle]

13 hours ago, charlierc said:

 

I obviously can only comment remotely as I'm not there but there is an oddness to it. People on the ground there remark of it having this odd quality to it. There's been some good games throughout so on a sporting level, yeah, it's had plenty of merits, but it feels like a harder World Cup to love than some others.

I know I'm in the minority, but one odd thing is the timing and I personally think that has benefited the tournament. A lot of the talk about moving it was just because of "this is the way we have always done it" rather than sporting merit. Lack of/ more expensive alcohol has been a good thing. I also get the impression looking at the crowds it's a bit less segregated and why shouldn't fans of other clubs sit next to each other and not fight.

In terms of quality it is to me lacking the top class players in/near their peak and that is why I favour France 98. An example being I would only take Mbappe, Griezmann and Lloris from this team to that one. 

I also am not a fan of the one city thing. I think part of the appeal of the world cup is the culture different cities in one country bring to a tournament. Saying that I wouldn't want to go the route of Euro 2021 which just seemed like random countries with no link.