Sustainability of the Festival?

[willgooneday]

32 minutes ago, beetchez said:

A comment on Facebook suggested Metallica/Ozzy/Metallica/SOAD with a shit-ton of likes. Subs being Alter Bridge, Rob Zombie, Slash and Black Stone Cherry.

I would honestly lose hope if that were the lineup. The festival needs new bands. Even a band like Bon Jovi would be somewhat different.

You'd have to be mad to book Ozzy. There's a realistic chance he won't be around let alone touring next June.

I can totally see two nights of Metallica and one of SOAD in order to fully catch up on the past few years but then the other day needs to a band like BMTH if the festival doesn't want to become the 'aging rockers' festival. 

Apparently they only sold 60,000 this year according to the Facebook group? They're gonna be desperate to attract a younger audience because a 110,000-120,000 capacity site not even half filling does not equal any sustainability. 

[beetchez]

Do you think Download would/should look more into booking left-field acts like Die Antwoord and Chase & Status?

Billie Eilish, Grimes, Rina Sawayama, Doja Cat and Halsey are primarily pop artists that have experimented with rock. Poppy used to be pop and is now straight up rock/metal (and she was booked for 2020/21).

And there's a lot of metal/hip hop crossover so acts like Eminem, Denzel Curry, Run The Jewels etc. wouldn't be considered too controversial.

[willgooneday]

33 minutes ago, beetchez said:

Do you think Download would/should look more into booking left-field acts like Die Antwoord and Chase & Status?

Billie Eilish, Grimes, Rina Sawayama, Doja Cat and Halsey are primarily pop artists that have experimented with rock. Poppy used to be pop and is now straight up rock/metal (and she was booked for 2020/21).

And there's a lot of metal/hip hop crossover so acts like Eminem, Denzel Curry, Run The Jewels etc. wouldn't be considered too controversial.

Nope. They should be booking less 

 

If you want something more poppy take a rock band with commercial appeal like BMTH / 21 Pilots (I know the denim hate em but they're in our wheelhouse). Poppy would be cool.

 

Run the Jewels would be good. Hard no to the rest. 

[Andre91]

1 hour ago, beetchez said:

Do you think Download would/should look more into booking left-field acts like Die Antwoord and Chase & Status?

Billie Eilish, Grimes, Rina Sawayama, Doja Cat and Halsey are primarily pop artists that have experimented with rock. Poppy used to be pop and is now straight up rock/metal (and she was booked for 2020/21).

And there's a lot of metal/hip hop crossover so acts like Eminem, Denzel Curry, Run The Jewels etc. wouldn't be considered too controversial.

Download should book Run The Jewels in a high position for sure. Acts like Denzel Curry, 100 gecs and Ghostemane in particular would go down well too, I’m sure. 
 

Ghostemane is one of the most exciting and experimental artist they could book. I saw him headline the Pit tent at leeds a couple years ago and it was as wild as any hardcore/metal act you can name. I watched Dana Dentata this year on the Dogtooth and the tent was busy. Granted, a large contingent looked a bit confused but plenty more were loving it.
 

It sounds simplistic af but it proves to me that the genre doesn’t matter; if the music makes you want to move and the vocals are confrontational/aggressive, people will enjoy it. 
 

Ghostemane, Denzel Curry, 100 gecs, $uicideboy$, City Morgue, Ho99o9, Scarlxrd would all go down a storm at Download. 

[Spiral_Low]

1 hour ago, beetchez said:

Do you think Download would/should look more into booking left-field acts like Die Antwoord and Chase & Status?

Billie Eilish, Grimes, Rina Sawayama, Doja Cat and Halsey are primarily pop artists that have experimented with rock. Poppy used to be pop and is now straight up rock/metal (and she was booked for 2020/21).

And there's a lot of metal/hip hop crossover so acts like Eminem, Denzel Curry, Run The Jewels etc. wouldn't be considered too controversial.

I don't understand why they would want to turn Download into Reading and Leeds when Reading and Leeds already exist. 

[willgooneday]

It'd be nice if stop suggesting R+L bands are start suggesting DL bands for DL.

 

There's at least 3 dozens bands who could realistically headline in the next 10 years with the right placement on the lineup over the next few years. 

 

[jump]

The double denim dinosaurs consider Greta Van Fleet and Idles too R&Lish to play at Download despite them never having played R&L before but have played Download. Denzel Curry would be too much for them.

Edited July 3, 2022 by jump

[willgooneday]

2 hours ago, jump said:

The double denim dinosaurs consider Greta Van Fleet and Idles too R&Lish to play at Download despite them never having played R&L before but have played Download. Denzel Curry would be too much for them.

Greta Van Fleet are worth keeping in the Conversation. Denzel Curry is not.

[rivalschools.price]

19 hours ago, Andre91 said:

Download should book Run The Jewels in a high position for sure. Acts like Denzel Curry, 100 gecs and Ghostemane in particular would go down well too, I’m sure. 
 

Ghostemane is one of the most exciting and experimental artist they could book. I saw him headline the Pit tent at leeds a couple years ago and it was as wild as any hardcore/metal act you can name. I watched Dana Dentata this year on the Dogtooth and the tent was busy. Granted, a large contingent looked a bit confused but plenty more were loving it.
 

It sounds simplistic af but it proves to me that the genre doesn’t matter; if the music makes you want to move and the vocals are confrontational/aggressive, people will enjoy it. 
 

Ghostemane, Denzel Curry, 100 gecs, $uicideboy$, City Morgue, Ho99o9, Scarlxrd would all go down a storm at Download. 

The Run the Jewels announcement hasn’t  gone down that well as a sub to RATM even with R+L fans so I can’t see how it would be any better at Download.

Can’t see Denzil Curry (one RATM cover does not a rock artist make) and 100 gecs doing much better either.

Agree that there’s no reason Ghostmaine, Ho99o9 and $uicideboy$ can’t so Download though.

[BenG92]

Death Grips / Injury Reserve / clipping. / Danny Brown should all be in the running for alt hip-hop acts at Download. Cypress Hill subbing Slipknot also seems like an easy booking just as RTJ subbing Rage is.

[devilman]

On 7/3/2022 at 8:31 AM, jump said:

The double denim dinosaurs consider Greta Van Fleet and Idles too R&Lish to play at Download despite them never having played R&L before but have played Download. 

I watched IDLES at Download and at Leeds. The double denim dinosaurs love GvF too. Have you been to one of their gigs? Was rammed on 2nd when they played there too.

[Matt42]

Really interesting chat, very hard to see where this festival goes as big metal is on its way out as a genre.

What I mean by that is metal is gradually downsizing. We’ve not had any bands emerge that can play to the level of the bigs (Metallica, GNR, Iron Maiden etc). Eventually those bands will retire and who will be left?

There is no succession. I won’t be surprised if the metal fans know this. They will run the festival until it’s physically impossible to book viable lineups anymore.

Smaller metal festivals is probably where the money is at right now. Would probably help some smaller emerging acts gain a decent following too. They aren’t going to cut their teeth at places like DL because their chances of ever headlining it are slim.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Matt42

[jump]

7 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Really interesting chat, very hard to see where this festival goes as big metal is on its way out as a genre.

What I mean by that is metal is gradually downsizing. We’ve not had any bands emerge that can play to the level of the bigs (Metallica, GNR, Iron Maiden etc). Eventually those bands will retire and who will be left?

There is no succession. I won’t be surprised if the metal fans know this. They will run the festival until it’s physically impossible to book viable lineups anymore.

Smaller metal festivals is probably where the money is at right now. Would probably help some smaller emerging acts gain a decent following too. They aren’t going to cut their teeth at places like DL because their chances of ever headlining it are slim.

Nah, if you look at Monsters Of Rock in the 80s it was getting huge crowds and except for AC/DC they didn't really have stadium headliners in those days, just shit like Whitesnake, Status Quo and Rainbow. 

A festival is more than just it's headliners and it can be a big festival without big stadium headliners which is what makes this thread so boring as that's all what everyone wants to talk about even though it's a symptom of Download's shit booking throughtout the line up due to everyone needing to prove themselves or they are a R&L type acts. The funny thing is the same thing happened to Monsters Of Rock in the 90s, they didn't embrace the new acts of the day like Rage Against The Machine, Marilyn Manson, Green Day, NIN, Ash, Pearl Jam etc so they were made obsolete and Download was meant to be the solution to the Monsters Of Rock problem but after the last 10 years they have gone backwards or manage fuck up easy wins for themselves.

[Matt42]

1 hour ago, jump said:

Nah, if you look at Monsters Of Rock in the 80s it was getting huge crowds and except for AC/DC they didn't really have stadium headliners in those days, just shit like Whitesnake, Status Quo and Rainbow. 

A festival is more than just it's headliners and it can be a big festival without big stadium headliners which is what makes this thread so boring as that's all what everyone wants to talk about even though it's a symptom of Download's shit booking throughtout the line up due to everyone needing to prove themselves or they are a R&L type acts. The funny thing is the same thing happened to Monsters Of Rock in the 90s, they didn't embrace the new acts of the day like Rage Against The Machine, Marilyn Manson, Green Day, NIN, Ash, Pearl Jam etc so they were made obsolete and Download was meant to be the solution to the Monsters Of Rock problem but after the last 10 years they have gone backwards or manage fuck up easy wins for themselves.

Yeah but in what universe is that going to happen again? Metal is slowly slipping out of the public conscious. There is no succession in the industry to carry the torch. The issue is without the stadium headliners download doesn’t get the crowd.

I think what metal needs is a smaller festival which isn’t reliant on the stadium circuit bands to sell it out (but obviously picking a few of them whenever they can), but giving newer bands the chance to get an audience.

The reason why Download is in the position it’s in is because it’s done 0 preparation for the future. It feels like they take every single year one year at a time. Glastonbury has continued to grow because they clearly think very long term about the future of the festival.

[jump]

10 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Yeah but in what universe is that going to happen again? Metal is slowly slipping out of the public conscious. There is no succession in the industry to carry the torch. The issue is without the stadium headliners download doesn’t get the crowd.

I think what metal needs is a smaller festival which isn’t reliant on the stadium circuit bands to sell it out (but obviously picking a few of them whenever they can), but giving newer bands the chance to get an audience.

The reason why Download is in the position it’s in is because it’s done 0 preparation for the future. It feels like they take every single year one year at a time. Glastonbury has continued to grow because they clearly think very long term about the future of the festival.

Metal was never a mainstream public consciousness type of music yet there are metal acts that start playing arenas for the first time every year. 

 You're thinking Download needs stadium headliners because it's the same bollocks that's always been said even though Download rarely ever gets stadium acts. There are acts like Iron Maiden, System Of A Down, Slipknot who aren't big enough to do stadium tours in this country but yet bring in whopping crowds still. If Download treats someone like Ghost, Bring Me or whoever then they will be seen as a headliner the same way they did with System and Slipknot. If anything having more metal acts who are stadium headliners in general would probably fuck over the festival as those acts would skip the festival and create more competition for ticket sales with their own mega shows.

I agree with Download doesn't think about it's own future but not the same way you do, instead of downsizing they need to make the line ups stronger. Download is booked without it's finger on the pulse of the hard rock scene for example Bring Me the biggest UK metal band who have been playing arenas for ages now have only ever played the mainstage once and Download is meant to be the biggest UK metal festival so it's mental they haven't booked them as a mainstage act more. The bottom half of the main stage line up gets filled up with shit like Alestorm or pub rock bands who will never get bigger than that slot rather than those shit hot bands like Code Orange, Bob Vylan etc and when they do play the fest it's for 25mins on the smallest stages against the big bands. It doesn't help that Download is booked liked a budget festival either, Skindred third down and The Distillers headlining the second stage is weak.

 

I find the headliner borings but that can be forgiven if the undercard is shit hot which it rarely ever is.

[gfa]

On 7/2/2022 at 6:03 PM, Spiral_Low said:

I don't understand why they would want to turn Download into Reading and Leeds when Reading and Leeds already exist. 

One of them is at half capacity, the other one sells out every year at two sites too.

Interesting discussion to read, sounds like this booker is awful to be honest.

[jump]

9 hours ago, gfa said:

One of them is at half capacity, the other one sells out every year at two sites too.

Interesting discussion to read, sounds like this booker is awful to be honest.

You make it sound like Copping is somekind of cowboy.

[BenG92]

13 hours ago, Matt42 said:

Yeah but in what universe is that going to happen again? Metal is slowly slipping out of the public conscious. There is no succession in the industry to carry the torch. The issue is without the stadium headliners download doesn’t get the crowd.

There's plenty but they need to start being lifted up. Gojira as an example should be future headliners but they'll probably get a third slot booking in '23 when they could put on an insane sub show. Korn should've been headlining years ago. Deftones could do it if they replace their sound guy for outdoor shows. 

Thing is Download's always been a rock AND metal festival, they just need to rely more on rock they've been missing out on, same few bands get mentioned repeatedly like Pearl Jam and Green Day but it's true. Get Muse back in, outside stuff like NIN, The Cure. They've got a ton of choice, they just don't adapt.

[FeverDream]

All they need to do is follow a new booking policy with different categories for headliners:

1. Existing established Download headliners (Metallica, Slipknot, SOAD, GNR, Iron Maiden, RATM, Biffy etc).

2. Existing established headliners at other festivals (Muse, Foo Fighters, Pearl Jam, 21P, Green Day, RHCP, NIN etc).

3. New bands that are either Download staples or left field (Gojira, BMTH, Alter Bridge, Korn, Deftones etc).

Book 3 bands, 1 from each category, then you’re laughing. Problem solved (or so it should be). Then for the undercard book more rock acts that R&L have started to neglect but have never or rarely played Download.

 

 

[Spiral_Low]

4 hours ago, FeverDream said:

All they need to do is follow a new booking policy with different categories for headliners:

1. Existing established Download headliners (Metallica, Slipknot, SOAD, GNR, Iron Maiden, RATM, Biffy etc).

2. Existing established headliners at other festivals (Muse, Foo Fighters, Pearl Jam, 21P, Green Day, RHCP, NIN etc).

3. New bands that are either Download staples or left field (Gojira, BMTH, Alter Bridge, Korn, Deftones etc).

Book 3 bands, 1 from each category, then you’re laughing. Problem solved (or so it should be). Then for the undercard book more rock acts that R&L have started to neglect but have never or rarely played Download.

 

 

As I've said earlier in this thread, it's not just about headliners. They need to use the main stage to develop bands. At the moment they stack the top of each stage, rather than trying to use the main stage to promote bands.

For example, having Spiritbox tucked away on 3rd stage was ridiculous. They should get them back in 2023 and have them on 4th or 5th from top.

They did well in 2019 putting bands like Power Trip (RIP Riley), Behemoth and Alien Weaponry on main but messed up by having Jinjer tucked away on 4th stage. Jinjer should come back in 2023 and do main stage tbh.

[FeverDream]

1 hour ago, Spiral_Low said:

As I've said earlier in this thread, it's not just about headliners. They need to use the main stage to develop bands. At the moment they stack the top of each stage, rather than trying to use the main stage to promote bands.

For example, having Spiritbox tucked away on 3rd stage was ridiculous. They should get them back in 2023 and have them on 4th or 5th from top.

They did well in 2019 putting bands like Power Trip (RIP Riley), Behemoth and Alien Weaponry on main but messed up by having Jinjer tucked away on 4th stage. Jinjer should come back in 2023 and do main stage tbh.

100% man. You look at the slots Spiritbox did at other festivals this year and you wonder what went wrong. 

[Andre91]

59 minutes ago, FeverDream said:

100% man. You look at the slots Spiritbox did at other festivals this year and you wonder what went wrong. 

They surely have to be back in a mid main stage slot next year. 

[VCK]

A good move would be to get a headliner with crossover appeal, such as QOTSA or Royal Blood.

[VCK]

On 7/2/2022 at 6:03 PM, Spiral_Low said:

I don't understand why they would want to turn Download into Reading and Leeds when Reading and Leeds already exist. 

Because Reading and Leeds has been turned into V.

[King101]

2 hours ago, VCK said:

A good move would be to get a headliner with crossover appeal, such as QOTSA or Royal Blood.

They’ve tried that before with Muse and Biffy and it hasn’t really paid off because they make no attempt to make it worthwhile to fans of those acts.

You can bet if QOTSA headlined they would fill the main stage with Classic Rock and Metalcore bands and then stick someone like Judas Priest up against them on 2nd stage.

They need a more substantial shift, if they book a crossover act as a headliner then book a complimentary main stage that day and maybe a similar leaning 2nd stage the next day.