The 1975

[maelzoid]

There has been so much hand-wringing over this. I do agree that people seem so eager to criticise and it's based largely on pre-existing opinions of the guy, because what actually have they done wrong here? They played a show and criticised a government policy they rightly think is immoral.

It seems whatever play they made, they'd be open up for criticism...

1. Boycott playing Malaysia - Local fans miss out, wider world doesn't care.

2. Play show, keep mouth shut - looks like they endorse or are ignorant of the politics and nothing changes, nobody else cares.

3. Play show, speak up - shitstorm ensues.

Whichever choice, they're open to some form of attack.

As for the question of them being responsible for any backlash on the LGBTQ+ community, I find that pretty disingenuous. The people responsible for the backlash are those perpetrating it, and placing the blame at the feet of someone else for speaking out is a misdirection. Bigots attacking minorities will always try to blame 'agitators' and the victims for 'bringing it on themselves' and so many comments about this incident just reinforce that lie.

[maelzoid]

27 minutes ago, kalifire said:

Seems to me he was well-intentioned and at the same time a bit thoughtless.

' Well-intentioned and at the same time a bit thoughtless' - the new album by The 1975 is due for release in early 2024.

[clarkete]

9 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

As for the question of them being responsible for any backlash on the LGBTQ+ community, I find that pretty disingenuous. 

So you believe that your own view on this matter is better informed than the numerous queer folks in the region who've spoken out against his actions? 

Are you serious? 

[maelzoid]

24 minutes ago, clarkete said:

So you believe that your own view on this matter is better informed than the numerous queer folks in the region who've spoken out against his actions? 

Are you serious? 

I am serious. I do not think I am better informed, but my point is not about my view of this particular incident, this particular community or this particular region, but rather the more fundamental idea that perpetrators of discrimination and abuse will shift the blame for their actions to the victims and agitators. 

Sadly, enough people go along with this idea that it becomes accepted, but I fundamentally disagree with it. 

edit: I think in hindsight 'disingenuous' was the wrong word for me to use here. I don't believe there is any dishonesty from the people claiming Healy et al are to blame for backlash. But I do think they're wrong to blame them.

Edited July 23, 2023 by maelzoid
clarification

[wro_lap]

1 hour ago, Isaact said:

1975 / Matty Healy stans are just the worst people.

Like this is the most depressing thing I have read on efests in years. Proper grim racism dismissed as 'childish banter'

It's gross, isn't it? Like I get it, you think The Sound is a banger, which it is, but it's not so good that it's worth excusing racism for. Disgusting fanbase

[Baggins7]

I get the whole idea of using your status to make a point but realistically it’s not going to change anything over there. 
If you don’t agree with laws in a country then don’t go there - exactly the same as people who expect everyone who visits the UK to follow our laws. 

[zahidf]

52 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

I am serious. I do not think I am better informed, but my point is not about my view of this particular incident, this particular community or this particular region, but rather the more fundamental idea that perpetrators of discrimination and abuse will shift the blame for their actions to the victims and agitators. 

Sadly, enough people go along with this idea that it becomes accepted, but I fundamentally disagree with it. 

edit: I think in hindsight 'disingenuous' was the wrong word for me to use here. I don't believe there is any dishonesty from the people claiming Healy et al are to blame for backlash. But I do think they're wrong to blame them.

https://www.nme.com/news/music/malaysian-lgbtq-community-condemn-the-1975s-matty-healy-over-kiss-incident-3472125

 

I think if the LGBTQ+ community are against it like they are here, then he made a massive error

[panda97]

1 hour ago, Isaact said:

1975 / Matty Healy stans are just the worst people.

Like this is the most depressing thing I have read on efests in years. Proper grim racism dismissed as 'childish banter'

I had the exact same issue with someone on reddit, handwaving the racism as "just doing accents"

If it was a one off isolated incident then you can make an argument, however he has a history of repeatedly doing and saying problematic things. The racist comments about Asians, the racist porn incident, misogynistic comments, nazi salute on stage.

You quickly lose the benefit of the doubt when you consistently prove yourself to be a piece of sh*t 

[Thunderstruck]

1 hour ago, Isaact said:

1975 / Matty Healy stans are just the worst people.

Like this is the most depressing thing I have read on efests in years. Proper grim racism dismissed as 'childish banter'

If you listen to it there's not a lot to it - the presenter was more the one saying anything antagonistic with Matty egging him on. I found it really childish and a bit weird.

By the book yes it's 'racist' but do you really believe Matty Healy is a racist person? I find that a bit of a stretch to be honest.

[panda97]

1 hour ago, maelzoid said:

There has been so much hand-wringing over this. I do agree that people seem so eager to criticise and it's based largely on pre-existing opinions of the guy, because what actually have they done wrong here? They played a show and criticised a government policy they rightly think is immoral.

It seems whatever play they made, they'd be open up for criticism...

1. Boycott playing Malaysia - Local fans miss out, wider world doesn't care.

2. Play show, keep mouth shut - looks like they endorse or are ignorant of the politics and nothing changes, nobody else cares.

3. Play show, speak up - shitstorm ensues.

Whichever choice, they're open to some form of attack.

As for the question of them being responsible for any backlash on the LGBTQ+ community, I find that pretty disingenuous. The people responsible for the backlash are those perpetrating it, and placing the blame at the feet of someone else for speaking out is a misdirection. Bigots attacking minorities will always try to blame 'agitators' and the victims for 'bringing it on themselves' and so many comments about this incident just reinforce that lie.

The people this literally impacts are coming out and saying how his actions have been harmful and dangerous to that community, it's easy to sit at home and applaud him for "making a stand", however mine and your opinions pale in comparison to those of the people it actually impacts, and from what I have seen they have been overwhelmingly critical of him

[Thunderstruck]

2 minutes ago, panda97 said:

I had the exact same issue with someone on reddit, handwaving the racism as "just doing accents"

If it was a one off isolated incident then you can make an argument, however he has a history of repeatedly doing and saying problematic things. The racist comments about Asians, the racist porn incident, misogynistic comments, nazi salute on stage.

You quickly lose the benefit of the doubt when you consistently prove yourself to be a piece of sh*t 

What's wrong with trying to do accents? It's quite funny! People are just primed at the moment to try and interpret everything through a 'is it racist' filter. It does nothing to help in tackling actual real racist hatred. 

[panda97]

2 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

What's wrong with trying to do accents? It's quite funny! People are just primed at the moment to try and interpret everything through a 'is it racist' filter. It does nothing to help in tackling actual real racist hatred. 

If you think his actions are funny then that doesn't reflect greatly on yourself mate

There is a line, mockingly doing Asian accents to reference someone that you think looks like that ethnicity isn't exactly something I'd consider particularly funny. He has a massive platform and endorsing behaviour like that just encourages his rather young fan base to recreate those actions. 

Also his piss poor excuse of an apology for it doesn't help. 

As i've already said, if it was one isolated incident then you could give him the benefit of the doubt for it, however it isn't, he has repeatedly shown himself to have and express offensive and distasteful opinions. Whether he does that "as a joke" or not, he is 34, not 12. He is in a position where he should know that it isn't acceptable behaviour especially when you have a large impressionable following.

[Thunderstruck]

17 minutes ago, panda97 said:

If you think his actions are funny then that doesn't reflect greatly on yourself mate

There is a line, mockingly doing Asian accents to reference someone that you think looks like that ethnicity isn't exactly something I'd consider particularly funny. He has a massive platform and endorsing behaviour like that just encourages his rather young fan base to recreate those actions. 

Also his piss poor excuse of an apology for it doesn't help. 

As i've already said, if it was one isolated incident then you could give him the benefit of the doubt for it, however it isn't, he has repeatedly shown himself to have and express offensive and distasteful opinions. Whether he does that "as a joke" or not, he is 34, not 12. He is in a position where he should know that it isn't acceptable behaviour especially when you have a large impressionable following.

It's not that I find them particularly funny, It's that I don't find them to be something we should be worrying about when it comes to stamping out racism. 

I agree with you he's not fecking 12 and that's what that podcast sounded like to me. It was a bit embarrassing. If you've got sources for the other 'offensive and distasteful' opinions it would be useful.

[wro_lap]

54 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

By the book yes it's 'racist' but do you really believe Matty Healy is a racist person?

I think if you say a racist thing then that makes you racist, yes.

[Isaact]

59 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

If you listen to it there's not a lot to it - the presenter was more the one saying anything antagonistic with Matty egging him on. I found it really childish and a bit weird.

By the book yes it's 'racist' but do you really believe Matty Healy is a racist person? I find that a bit of a stretch to be honest.

You judge people by their actions, not their intent. Intent is unknowable.

He has done and said racist things, so he is a racist person. Regardless of intent.

You could perhaps give a tiny benefit of the doubt except for all the other instances, and his non-apology.

[maelzoid]

3 hours ago, wro_lap said:

I think if you say a racist thing then that makes you racist, yes.

By that definition, it makes pretty much all of us racist. I wouldn't be bold enough to claim I've never said anything racist, even though it would have been unwitting and borne from ignorance.

[Chawk]

An issue is that it's not just the government's of Malaysia and Indonesia that are anti LGBT, most of the population do not support the LGBT community. 91% of people surveyed in Indonesia say being gay isn't justifiable: https://www.equaldex.com/region/indonesia

For this reason it would've been better just to say at the gig 'we hear all our Malaysian LGBT fans and support them', rather than with the massive speech and kiss

Unfortunately if you take the attitude 'if you don't like it, don't go there', then you can't visit many different cultures- basically just north west Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ. This shows the plight of LGBT people in most developing countries and the ignorance of The 1975 to think that Malaysia is an anomaly in not supporting gay people. I have no doubt that their heart was in the right place though. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Chawk

[Thunderstruck]

3 hours ago, Isaact said:

You judge people by their actions, not their intent. Intent is unknowable.

He has done and said racist things, so he is a racist person. Regardless of intent.

You could perhaps give a tiny benefit of the doubt except for all the other instances, and his non-apology.

You can judge people by both actually. If a comedian tells a joke that happens to offend a member of the audience that does not make them a bad person. Intent is incredibly important.

Please sources for the other incidents.

[Thunderstruck]

21 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

By that definition, it makes pretty much all of us racist. I wouldn't be bold enough to claim I've never said anything racist, even though it would have been unwitting and borne from ignorance.

This is the concern for me, I feel like racism should be universally bad. But by the definition given it means we're all racists (most likely). Almost feels like it devalues the horrific nature of genuinely racist people.

[Justiceforcedave]

4 hours ago, panda97 said:

If it was a one off isolated incident then you can make an argument, however he has a history of repeatedly doing and saying problematic things. The racist comments about Asians, the racist porn incident, misogynistic comments, nazi salute on stage.

You quickly lose the benefit of the doubt when you consistently prove yourself to be a piece of sh*t 

I don't know a lot about Matt Healy. This story and this thread have been an eye opener.

The first thing that struck me watching that video, before he even got into it, was the fact that he called the Malasian Government 'Retards'. The irony that he felt in some way qualified to discuss what is clearly an incredibly complex political issue about a group who experience discrimination... whilst using hurtful, school yard language which is incredibly offence to another group is ridiculous.

He's a little boy with a big ego and a tiny brain.
 

[panda97]

5 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

It's not that I find them particularly funny, It's that I don't find them to be something we should be worrying about when it comes to stamping out racism. 

I agree with you he's not fecking 12 and that's what that podcast sounded like to me. It was a bit embarrassing. If you've got sources for the other 'offensive and distasteful' opinions it would be useful.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/matty-healy-1975-nazi-salute-b2272511.html

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/celebs/a44093532/matty-healy-controversies/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12090167/Matty-Healys-controversial-porn-comments-resurface-fans-beg-Taylor-Swift-end-romance.html

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniesoteriou/rina-sawayama-matty-healy-glastonbury-explainer

Few to get you started, Google exists if you want to research it further though

[henry bear]

4 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

Almost feels like it devalues the horrific nature of genuinely racist people.

Like Matty

[crumbler]

18 hours ago, JayDiesel said:

When Lorde, Radiohead and Big Thief (but then not) played Israel a few years ago, they got absolutely sh*t on for supporting an incredibly broken country

Rightfully.

[JayDiesel]

3 hours ago, crumbler said:

Rightfully.

Is it not a little more complex than just 'right' or 'wrong' to play those counties though? Israeli fans of those artists aren't necessarily supporters of Palestinian suppression, and as I referenced earlier, not playing shows fails to draw any attention to the matter. In the case of Big Thief, they were forced into cancelling a show in Israel, and their bassist is Israeli. That seems crazy to me.

It's a genuinely complex moral issue that I'm not 100% where I stand on, and I'm always open to learn more, but it's certainly got enough layers to it to warrant discussion 

[1986]

If he had to speak up, which people will have their own opinion on, could he not have just done it better? It's clearly a massive issue and thinking of people not being able to live their lives because of a religiously influenced government is bonkers and will make anyone with a heart angry. But it looks clear to me his speech was really performative in its anger and he looked as interested in looking cool as getting his point across. Trying to make people look stupid or back them into a corner isn't going to change anything. It's going to make it worse.

It's the people's job to get angry and protest their government's stupid rules. Visiting pop stars can of course have a positive influence but borderline insulting the audience isn't gonna do much good.