The 1975

[Drums Please Fab]

On 7/23/2023 at 10:53 AM, Baggins7 said:

I get the whole idea of using your status to make a point but realistically it’s not going to change anything over there. 
If you don’t agree with laws in a country then don’t go there - exactly the same as people who expect everyone who visits the UK to follow our laws. 

 

On a related tangent, I raise an eyebrow whenever these kind of issues arise.

Some people say "their country, their rules" and we in the west need to respect that yada yada yada.

And then I sit and watch the Premier League stop football matches mid game so muslim players can take a drink during Ramadan.

It seems we in the west have to both accommodate everyone else's cultures and traditions on OUR shores, while also respecting all theirs when in their country. We have to genuflect at everyone else's altar but they don't afford us the same courtesy. 

Qatar World Cup without booze, gay issues, confiscating rainbow flags etc to the current Matt Healy-gate.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Drums Please Fab

[Drums Please Fab]

49 minutes ago, 1986 said:

If he had to speak up, which people will have their own opinion on, could he not have just done it better? It's clearly a massive issue and thinking of people not being able to live their lives because of a religiously influenced government is bonkers and will make anyone with a heart angry. But it looks clear to me his speech was really performative in its anger and he looked as interested in looking cool as getting his point across. Trying to make people look stupid or back them into a corner isn't going to change anything. It's going to make it worse.

It's the people's job to get angry and protest their government's stupid rules. Visiting pop stars can of course have a positive influence but borderline insulting the audience isn't gonna do much good.

Listen Im not a Healy defender. The chap is talented, but clearly a bit of a bellend.

But these things need to be performative no? Its simple. Concise. Taking the knee, black power fist in the air at the Olympics etc

Kissing a man on stage does more in two seconds than the best written speech could have especially in a country where English isn't their first language.

And I have to hold my hands up. Im 38 years old and until Healy did this, I did not know that it was illegal to be gay in Malaysia.

So his stunt worked on educating me.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Drums Please Fab

[Justiceforcedave]

1 hour ago, Drums Please Fab said:

And then I sit and watch the Premier League stop football matches mid game so muslim players can take a drink during Ramadan.

It seems we in the west have to both accommodate everyone else's cultures and traditions on OUR shores, while also respecting all theirs when in their country. We have to genuflect at everyone else's altar but they don't afford us the same courtesy. 

Are you suggesting that what Matt Healy did (a white person in a position of power, visiting another country and protesting in way that was deliberately antagonistic without consideration to it's effectiveness or the consequences) is compatible to the Premier League accommodating the religious beliefs of it's players?

1 hour ago, Drums Please Fab said:

And I have to hold my hands up. Im 38 years old and until Healy did this, I did not know that it was illegal to be gay in Malaysia.

So his stunt worked on educating me.

Do you think that educating people in the west, is a worthwhile trade off for the repercussions that the LGBTQ community in Malaysia have expressed concerns about? 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Justiceforcedave

[Drums Please Fab]

5 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

Are you suggesting that what Matt Healy did (a white person in a position of power, visiting another country and protesting in way that was deliberately antagonistic with without consideration to it's effectiveness or the consequences) is compatible to the Premier League accommodating the religious beliefs of it's players?

Do you think that educating people in the west, is a worthwhile trade off for the repercussions that the LGBTQ community in Malaysia have expressed concerns about? 

I don't think we should make religious accommodations to anyone, for their own chosen beliefs. Especially when they are not the prevailing belief in that country.

"you're thirsty?". Dont play today then. Your choice.

You knew our culture before you moved here to play in our league.

And to your second point, I presume he has "educated" more than just the west. He pulled a stunt to normalise homosexuality in Asia. He told them it's ok to love who you love. Surely that's a good thing. Now they are well within their rights to tell him to sling his hook. And they have. But he made is point and he will likely never go or be allowed back. All is fair in love and war.

If the homosexual community in Asia are subjected to increased "hassle" as a result of his stunt, that is on their oppressors, not on Healy. The right thing to happen now , would be for every band, football team, Grand Prix, entity worth their salt to boycott that backward shithole from now on. 

That's why the World Cup was such a line in the sand. We/They shouldn't have gone.

Im a Rugby fan. I watched Isreal Folau lose his career in Australia for stating on his personal instagram that he felt gay people wouldn't go to heaven. He is from a pacific island background and got himself entwined in quite a fundamentalist Christian group in Australia. He lost his job, they went after his wife who was a net baller for New Zealand. His endorsement deals. He missed out on the World Cup at his peak. The mob cheered. 

Now we have the front man of a band making a pro gay statement on stage in a country where it is taboo. And we have a consensus where people are saying he is in the wrong. Which is it folks?

It seems you can be pro gay or anti gay or racist or not racist, once you do it in the right jurisdiction at any given time.

 

[moogster]

I have issues with Malaysia being called a backwards country in the previous post, having myself along with gay colleagues worked in Malaysia (in a kind of don't ask/don't tell thing/we all know but don't discuss/ special bars only mood). I'm thinking the PDA thing he did has a special significance in Asia as well. Anyway.

Why cancel Taiwan is what I don't get? Anyone knows?

[Drums Please Fab]

I think some folk on here would have wished Rosa Parks would just bloody move to the back of the bus so they could get back to their Instagram reel.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Drums Please Fab

[moogster]

Front or back?

[Drums Please Fab]

11 minutes ago, moogster said:

Front or back?

I believe Blake told her to stand up, but the point stands.

The logic some are applying to Healy here, if applied to Parks , would mean they wish she just kowtow'd and took her medicine. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

 

[1986]

1 hour ago, Drums Please Fab said:

Listen Im not a Healy defender. The chap is talented, but clearly a bit of a bellend.

But these things need to be performative no? Its simple. Concise. Taking the knee, black power fist in the air at the Olympics etc

Kissing a man on stage does more in two seconds than the best written speech could have especially in a country where English isn't their first language.

And I have to hold my hands up. Im 38 years old and until Healy did this, I did not know that it was illegal to be gay in Malaysia.

So his stunt worked on educating me.

It's all personal opinion and I think we basically agree here but my stance is taking a knee or a fist in the air are more powerful gestures than going on some sweary rant making it as much about himself as the cause he's championing. Wordlessly kissing the bassist would have been pretty powerful.

I didn't know that either, not sure me finding that out will do them much good but knowledge is power regardless.

[Drums Please Fab]

We don't have to pick a team. We should just judge each issue on its own merits. 

Its not Team Healy or Team Malaysia.

Healy can be a spoiled self obsessed narcissist with a penchant for acting out AND have done something positive in this instance either by accident or design.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Drums Please Fab

[Drums Please Fab]

7 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

Je suis Matt Healy. 

[Chawk]

52 minutes ago, Drums Please Fab said:

I don't think we should make religious accommodations to anyone, for their own chosen beliefs. Especially when they are not the prevailing belief in that country.

"you're thirsty?". Dont play today then. Your choice.

You knew our culture before you moved here to play in our league.

 

Well, in fact you're the one that's going against the law and culture of the UK then, not Islamic football players. The Civil Rights Act 1964 means that employers have to make accommodations for peoples religions, unless this would 'undue hardship' to the business. Our culture here in Britain is freedom of religion, you should be able to practice whatever faith you choose as long as it doesn't harm others. 

[Drums Please Fab]

45 minutes ago, Chawk said:

Well, in fact you're the one that's going against the law and culture of the UK then, not Islamic football players. The Civil Rights Act 1964 means that employers have to make accommodations for peoples religions, unless this would 'undue hardship' to the business. Our culture here in Britain is freedom of religion, you should be able to practice whatever faith you choose as long as it doesn't harm others. 

Yep, and I wouldn’t vote for it if given a choice. I don’t live in the UK for what it’s worth.
 

The bundesliga did it first and now to appease the tik tok generation the premier league are on the band wagon. 

it’s transparent as f**k.

[wro_lap]

23 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

I feel like racism should be universally bad. But 

I rest my case

[wro_lap]

23 hours ago, maelzoid said:

By that definition, it makes pretty much all of us racist. I wouldn't be bold enough to claim I've never said anything racist, even though it would have been unwitting and borne from ignorance.

Absolutely agree mate, we can all do better, and as per the conversation around the George Floyd situation, we need to be willing to call this sh*t out in order to not be offensive. The fact there are people who didn't learn from that and now defend Healy is absurd

[henry bear]

12 minutes ago, Drums Please Fab said:

Yep, and I wouldn’t vote for it if given a choice. I don’t live in the UK for what it’s worth.
 

The bundesliga did it first and now to appease the tik tok generation the premier league are on the band wagon. 

it’s transparent as f**k.

Wow. Thankfully the UK is (largely)  a  nation that’s tolerant of other cultures and faiths etc. Just because other countries aren’t doesn’t mean we should follow their lead. Obviously you don’t agree, given the way you’ve nailed your colours to the mast 

[thatTFBguy]

Somebody nuke this entire thread from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. 

[Drums Please Fab]

2 hours ago, Justiceforcedave said:

Are you suggesting that what Matt Healy did (a white person in a position of power, visiting another country and protesting in way that was deliberately antagonistic without consideration to it's effectiveness or the consequences) 

What does his skin colour have to do with anything? 
 

Are white people not allowed have opinions?

Protests should be somewhat transgressive or antagonistic in order to get a response. The people being protested against are supposed to be discomforted or embarrassed in order to agitate change. 
Eggs omelettes etc.

Like the Iranian climber who competed without her head covering. And Iranian women cutting off their hair. 

Its supposed to be shocking.
 

I don’t have any dog in the race, in fact if anything , pride month annoys me. It’s gone way beyond what it should be. A conversation for another day. The only reason I posted in the thread was I would have thought Healy would be getting a hearty round of applause from the usual corners. But no. People still having a pop. Like the left wingers applauding banks for closing Nigel Farages accounts. If you don’t stand for something , you stand for nothing. Freedom means freedom even for people you don’t like or agree with. 

In the Primavera thread a few of us had a go at Halsey because she told all the straight people to “f**k off” during her set. I commented that it wasn’t very inclusive of her to do that. Now I’m defending Healy for taking a pro gay stance in Malaysia and people are still having a pop 😂. 
 

Its seems, ironically, these pop stars are only allowed pontificate in the west (where we are most progressive) but should mind their own business in countries less progressive than ours. A bizarre quandary.

It’s ok for Madonna to say she wants to blow up the white house when Trump gets elected, but it’s not ok for Healy to say Malaysias laws are out of date and I’ll befitting of modern day inclusive societies.

I can’t keep up with what the “right on” mob wants. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Drums Please Fab

[clarkete]

27 minutes ago, Drums Please Fab said:

On it’s not because I have an intolerance to their religion. It’s that if you do it for one you have to do it for all. 
 

Nicholas Anelka was sanctioned for doing the quenelle celebration in support of a French comedian . Berbatov was told he couldnt wear a white arm band when he supported two Bulgarian doctors. 
Guardiola was told to stop wearing the yellow ribbon in support of Catalonian independence. 
Yet when a criminal in America gets shot by the police we have kneel before every football match now? Then they go and play a World Cup in Qatar 😂

They should be told .This is our country. This is how we do things here. We respect your religion but we won’t bend over backwards to shoe horn it into our traditions or way of life. Changing the word “Christmas” in company emails to end of year celebrations etc. 

For example . Michael Jones one of the Allblacks greatest ever players refused to play on Sundays. For his faith. However never asked for them to move the matches to Saturday. 
I havnt moved to The Middle East  to chase tax free cash. Because I like getting pissed up and sleeping with women I’m not married to.  
 

I think essentially any side you're on...I'll be on the other one thanks.
 

[Drums Please Fab]

4 minutes ago, clarkete said:

I think essentially any side you're on...I'll be on the other one thanks.
 

I’m on the pro gay side here?

you’re homophobic?

[Justiceforcedave]

1 minute ago, Drums Please Fab said:

I’m on the pro gay side here?

you’re homophobic?

I think you've made it pretty clear what your ideologies are.

[Nobby's Old Boots]

15 minutes ago, Drums Please Fab said:

I’m on the pro gay side here?

you’re homophobic?

You're a f**king wally.

[scatteredscreens]

50 minutes ago, Drums Please Fab said:

Yet when a criminal in America gets shot by the police we have kneel before every football match now? Then they go and play a World Cup in Qatar 😂

 

This is disgusting and incredibly ignorant.

[Drums Please Fab]

1 minute ago, Justiceforcedave said:

I think you've made it pretty clear what your ideologies are.

I don’t think I have.
And I am genuinely not trying to offend anyone. And I do apologies if I havnt articulated myself well enough. 
There is no boogie man here. I’m a real libertarian. Do whatever you want once it doesn’t effect me. But don’t come into my home as a guest and then complain about the colour of the wallpaper. 
I just hate hypocrisy.

I can’t fathom how people who are into the old social justice can find fault with what Healy has done.  He made his point and they made theirs by telling him to get lost. As is their right. Now it’s up to the gallery to decide what’s morally correct. 

He should be getting high fives all round right? That’s why the footballers are wearing the rainbow armbands and rainbow laces. This is what we want right ?

Didnt Lily Allen and Olivia Rodrigo sing “f**k you very much” when the Supreme Court meddled with roe vs wade. 
 

I thought we loved all this stuff right? or is it just what’s en vogue with the mob? Like booing a woman off centre court for having the temerity of being born in Belarus. The same people who say Healy put LGBTQ people in danger don’t afford the same concession to Russian athletes who “don’t speak out”. Who’s families could go missing if they spoke ill of the regime.

 

Once we climb the ladder of virtuosity we need to be careful because our it’s very hard to stay consistent.