The 1975

[Isaact]

52 minutes ago, Drums Please Fab said:

I judge each argument on its own merits and each person on the arguments or points they are making regardless of who they sleep with with, their skin colour or gender.

Anything else is to enter into the conversation with a loaded dice.

Like if Kele Okereke did what Healy did is that ok?

Is it still white saviour complex? Does it have more gravitas coming from a gay man? Double points for being black?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danabrownlee/2022/06/19/dear-white-people-when-you-say-you-dont-see-color-this-is-what-we-really-hear/
 

Can't believe we are having this conversation in 2023. 'I don't see colour' went out years ago.

Newsflash - people are born into society with loaded dice. To deny that or to be willfully blind to it perpetuates racism - it doesn't solve it.

[Drums Please Fab]

2 minutes ago, Isaact said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danabrownlee/2022/06/19/dear-white-people-when-you-say-you-dont-see-color-this-is-what-we-really-hear/
 

Can't believe we are having this conversation in 2023. 'I don't see colour' went out years ago.

Newsflash - people are born into society with loaded dice. To deny that or to be willfully blind to it perpetuates racism - it doesn't solve it.

You're a f**king gob shite.

[clarkete]

4 hours ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Absolutely, that's why I'm surprised you're fine with people whose intentions are blatantly transparent in that they clearly don't care about the marginalised people actually involved, and instead are repeating their distain for him. It's dishonest and makes me uneasy, that was the point I was making.

No wonder those people want to dismiss the importance of "intent".

That's really the way you choose to interpret his behaviour and the response of others? 

I'm a middle aged git, so musically they're totally off my radar.

First thing I ever saw was the weird video of him checking IDs.  Then his behaviour on the podcast and then this. 

They all trouble me to a greater or lesser degree and therefore on occasion I've expressed an opinion.

Nothing dishonest about my opinion - I think he's been immature, has made some poor choices and has not always followed it up as he should. 

 

[Nobby's Old Boots]

34 minutes ago, clarkete said:

That's really the way you choose to interpret his behaviour and the response of others? 

I'm a middle aged git, so musically they're totally off my radar.

First thing I ever saw was the weird video of him checking IDs.  Then his behaviour on the podcast and then this. 

They all trouble me to a greater or lesser degree and therefore on occasion I've expressed an opinion.

Nothing dishonest about my opinion - I think he's been immature, has made some poor choices and has not always followed it up as he should. 

 

What about my post was an interpretation of his behaviour? People are bizarrely pretending I'm defending him. I'm not and I haven't. I've made my thoughts clear on him. This is the last I'll say in this thread now because people are purposefully misquoting me and we're going round in circles.

But yes, I am uneasy with the idea that people are pretending to care about this and the people it's affecting but actually only interested in gleefully piling on someone they already dislike. It's pretty transparent.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Nobby's Old Boots

[CaledonianGonzo]

And it seems transparent- to me at least - that this latest reaffirming a previously held dislike is both perfectly valid and nothing unusual.

You've accused people of not caring because they weren't banging the drum for Malaysian gay rights on a Glastonbury chat before this point.  That's a far greater leap of logic.

 

[Thunderstruck]

11 hours ago, Isaact said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danabrownlee/2022/06/19/dear-white-people-when-you-say-you-dont-see-color-this-is-what-we-really-hear/
 

Can't believe we are having this conversation in 2023. 'I don't see colour' went out years ago.

Newsflash - people are born into society with loaded dice. To deny that or to be willfully blind to it perpetuates racism - it doesn't solve it.

A lot of ordinary people really don't care about race though, they just want to get on with their lives and treat people equally without being told they're perpetuating racism.

[Justiceforcedave]

2 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

A lot of ordinary people who aren't affected by racism really don't care about race though, they just want to get on with their lives and treat people equally without being told they're perpetuating racism.

Fixed for you.

[Thunderstruck]

4 hours ago, Justiceforcedave said:

Fixed for you.

🙄

[thatTFBguy]

Whatever you think about what Matty did, and clearly lots here thing it was ill judged, at least the 1975 didn't meekly surrender to the countries homophobic regime like Muse has done by removing a song from the setlist to please them. The praise they're getting for this as well is horrifying.

https://www.nme.com/en_asia/news/music/muse-remove-song-malaysia-concert-setlist-the-1975-controversy-3474127

Edited July 27, 2023 by thatTFBguy

[dumbsaints]

7 hours ago, thatTFBguy said:

Whatever you think about what Matty did, and clearly lots here thing it was ill judged, at least the 1975 didn't meekly surrender to the countries homophobic regime like Muse has done by removing a song from the setlist to please them. The praise they're getting for this as well is horrifying.

https://www.nme.com/en_asia/news/music/muse-remove-song-malaysia-concert-setlist-the-1975-controversy-3474127

Agreed. Also, Julian Casablancas saying it's "understandable" that "they are not ready for another concert yet in Malaysia".

Fair play for The Strokes arranging another Singapore date to compensate for the cancelled gig but what's with stating it's "understandable". 

As you said the praise one can see for this, also coming from the West, is disturbing. Also, starting to feel like other artists are taking this as a commercial opportunity for themselves in a really questionable way...

[maelzoid]

11 hours ago, thatTFBguy said:

Whatever you think about what Matty did, and clearly lots here thing it was ill judged, at least the 1975 didn't meekly surrender to the countries homophobic regime like Muse has done by removing a song from the setlist to please them. The praise they're getting for this as well is horrifying.

https://www.nme.com/en_asia/news/music/muse-remove-song-malaysia-concert-setlist-the-1975-controversy-3474127

That is particularly disappointing. I mean, isn't one of the very 'big ideas' behind Muse's music the concept of state over-reach and control... aren't they meant to be rising up and soundtracking the revolution...? I wonder which song it is...

[crumbler]

42 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

That is particularly disappointing. I mean, isn't one of the very 'big ideas' behind Muse's music the concept of state over-reach and control... aren't they meant to be rising up and soundtracking the revolution...? I wonder which song it is...

Was going to make a similar comment. Giving it "we're living in 1984, sheeple!" for years only to immediately roll over at the behest of the Malaysian government for an easy payday. 

[DeanoL]

On 7/25/2023 at 4:31 PM, strummer77 said:

Feels very complicated to me anyway.  The only conclusion I have made is that people over here have generally jumped on the incident whatever their knowledge to point score either way about Matt Healy rather than genuinely trying to support the Malaysian LGBTQ community. 

I think it's more than just people over here. It's the press as well. 100s of articles about how the Malaysian LGBTQ community are angry about what he did, all citing the same spokespeople from the same couple of charities, and the same individuals on Twitter. Maybe those people *are* representative of the entire community. Maybe they're not. "Oh but where are all the social media posts from Malaysian gay people who liked what he did?" You can figure that one out.

In any campaign for social change, there will be those that want a radical approach, and those that prefer to work within the rules to achieve change in a slower, more measured way. Plenty of climate change activists find Just Stop Oil unhelpful, but others like their existance.
(And general activism theory is that you require a "radical flank" to do the over-the-top, attention grabbing stuff, to give those more reasoned activists the spotlight to actually talk and address the issues. In this case, a foreign band would be well positioned to act in the radical flank, because of the ability to get the hell out without ending up in prison. Depressingly I'm sure the above mentioned LGBTQ charity spokespeople talked at length with various news outlets about the awful issues facing LGBTQ people in Malaysia, before saying that what Healy did was culturally insensitive and unhelpful. But that latter bit is all that gets reported in the press.)

[DeanoL]

On 7/25/2023 at 2:18 PM, CaledonianGonzo said:

Ungrateful Malaysian gays making the BBC news.   

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-66286800?utm_campaign=later-linkinbio-bbcnews&utm_content=later-36723227&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkin.bio

Clearly too backwards to understand that this was actually a good thing.

 

I'd be interested if any of the reprisals or clamp-downs they were worried about have actually happened? It's a week on and I've not seen anything, although most of the international media stopped caring the second a western rock group were no longer part of the story.

[Baggieboy]

My personnel view for what it's worth.  The 1975 are currently the biggest and best live band in the UK and possibly the world at this current time. Matty love him or hate him can get a crowd up for it without breaking out into a sweat. This band and this singer is what Glastonbury needs, OR would you prefer another year of Alex Turner and his god boring band sending the crowd to sleep?

[wro_lap]

27 minutes ago, Baggieboy said:

This band and this singer is what Glastonbury needs, OR would you prefer another year of Alex Turner and his god boring band sending the crowd to sleep?

I'll take the less racist option cheers

[gizmoman]

15 hours ago, maelzoid said:

That is particularly disappointing. I mean, isn't one of the very 'big ideas' behind Muse's music the concept of state over-reach and control... aren't they meant to be rising up and soundtracking the revolution...? I wonder which song it is...

My money's on "Undisclosed Desires", we'll find out tomorrow.

[CaledonianGonzo]

6 hours ago, Baggieboy said:

My personnel view for what it's worth.  The 1975 are currently the biggest and best live band in the UK and possibly the world at this current time. Matty love him or hate him can get a crowd up for it without breaking out into a sweat. This band and this singer is what Glastonbury needs, OR would you prefer another year of Alex Turner and his god boring band sending the crowd to sleep?

Are those the only two options?

[FloorFiller]

7 hours ago, gizmoman said:

My money's on "Undisclosed Desires", we'll find out tomorrow.

Undisclosed Desires… Will of the People… Compliance… Resistance… Won’t Stand Down… whole bunch of ‘sticking it to the man’ themed songs in their current setlist, a lot of them from their latest album, so interesting to see which one they felt they couldn’t play (and by interesting, I mean f**king lame). 

[gizmoman]

2 hours ago, FloorFiller said:

Undisclosed Desires… Will of the People… Compliance… Resistance… Won’t Stand Down… whole bunch of ‘sticking it to the man’ themed songs in their current setlist, a lot of them from their latest album, so interesting to see which one they felt they couldn’t play (and by interesting, I mean f**king lame). 

The article specifically mentioned the title rather than the content so I'm currently thinking it may be "We are f**king f**ked". Recon it's one of the 2.

(even efests doesn't like the title, censorship in the enlightened west too).

Edited July 29, 2023 by gizmoman
typo

[Justiceforcedave]

6 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Are those the only two options?

Or you could choose… THE MYSTERY BOX?

[gizmoman]

5 hours ago, gizmoman said:

The article specifically mentioned the title rather than the content so I'm currently thinking it may be "We are f**king f**ked". Reckon it's one of the 2.

(even efests doesn't like the title, censorship in the enlightened west too).

Turns out they didn't do either, It looks like WAFF was the problematic one, it was a shorter set 20 songs vs the usual 25, exact same set as Nancy, France with WAFF replaced by Resistance (!). I suppose self censoring for bad language is not so bad if you are playing a more conservative country, better than compromising on your political beliefs anyway.

[charlierc]

5 hours ago, gizmoman said:

Turns out they didn't do either, It looks like WAFF was the problematic one, it was a shorter set 20 songs vs the usual 25, exact same set as Nancy, France with WAFF replaced by Resistance (!). I suppose self censoring for bad language is not so bad if you are playing a more conservative country, better than compromising on your political beliefs anyway.

We say this - setlist still featured Psycho, which uses the word f**k about ten times. Which feels like half-arsed censorship from all parties.

The boundaries can be odd, mind. Muse dropped Uprising when they did Shanghai and Beijing shows in 2015, which we can only presume could be the Chinese government looking at the lyrics and saying no, but they still played other songs that I'm surprised passed the check, not least one that literally yells "You and I must fight for our rights" as it's chorus.

[DeanoL]

Sometimes engaging with the censors and making some sort of change is enough to make them happy. They think they have won then. Big world famous rock band changed something because they said so.

(And the people actually doing the job may not give a crap anyway, they just have to show they've done something so the higher ups are happy)

[Drums Please Fab]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:13 PM, thatTFBguy said:

Whatever you think about what Matty did, and clearly lots here thing it was ill judged, at least the 1975 didn't meekly surrender to the countries homophobic regime like Muse has done by removing a song from the setlist to please them. The praise they're getting for this as well is horrifying.

https://www.nme.com/en_asia/news/music/muse-remove-song-malaysia-concert-setlist-the-1975-controversy-3474127

It's absolutely bizarre isn't it.  Between the Qatar World Cup, players like Jordan Henderson going to Saudi Arabia after being an LGBTQ advocate when it was safe and trendy in the UK to bands like Muse now genuflecting at the altar of a bigoted regime. 

The almighty dollar is irresistible.

Think of the above juxtaposed with the likes of Matty Healy and Roger Waters getting plenty of welly for taking a stand on an issue. Maybe their deliveries were clumsy , but I have much more respect for them than the rest of these invertebrates who can be bought and sold.