Trainwreck:Woodstock '99 Netflix Doc

[BlackZeppelin]

Ok, fair play.

 

[Spindles]

On 8/9/2022 at 3:02 PM, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

If I was to describe the Fun Lovin' Criminals set, I would say brooding, dark, bordering on dangerous (but obv still looking out for everyone), intense, lively, adult, electric, adrenaline.

Nah, I was in that crowd, it was lighthearted and fun, much of the set was basically pantomime with Huey telling stories between songs.  There's nothing dark or dangerous about a FLC gig.  That was the one song in the show the whole crowd knew and went mad for, but the rest of the set was pretty tame.

It was the 90s, back then we jumped up and down a lot.  We were never sure why, but we did it anyway.  Crowds at festivals were rowdier than they are now, but after Roskilde nothing has ever been the same.  It used to be that you would find yourself picked up and moved 6-20 feet in a second without being able to get your footing as the crowd surged.  I've been in a lot of gigs that were genuinely dangerous but would I want that now?  Not at all, I've become more crowd averse and less active the older I've got, I suspect that with Glastonbury being something that people go back again and again to through their lives that a big part of the crowd probably have a similar experience.

 

[Hugh Jass II]

Back around the turn of the century (late 90’s, early 00’s) “frat boy” culture was everywhere in American media. There was a raft of tv shows and films that promoted and celebrated the idea of young men in their late teens/early 20’s partying excessively, taking obscene liberties with the opposite sex and generally being obnoxious.

This sort of behaviour was condoned in most media at the time and a lot of the behaviours we would consider unacceptable today were passed off as harmless pranks or just “boys being boys”. It became aspirational for young men to behave in a certain way - to “party”, to only care about one’s own gratification, to try and have sex with anything - consensual or not, and it bred a toxic culture.

The idiots you see at W99 are products of how toxic that culture became.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Hugh Jass II

[CaledonianGonzo]

6 hours ago, Spindles said:

It was the 90s, back then we jumped up and down a lot.  We were never sure why, but we did it anyway. 

True. It was shit. A terrible way to watch / experience a gig, jumping up and down like Zebedee.

Evidence that it was meaningless? People would do it to Scooby Snacks.

Edited August 15, 2022 by CaledonianGonzo

[DeanoL]

23 hours ago, Alvoram said:

Well.... Glastonbury related forums were the last place I expected to find such bigotry on public display. And nobody batting an eyelid. I don't see how xenophobia is any better than racism, sexism or any other kind of prejudice... But I'm clearly alone so I'll just shut up now. 😞 

I think it's a hard stretch to say they were referring to all American's like that. As the discussion went on we've seen it narrowed down to "frat culture" which, as far as I'm aware, is still uniquely American.

Most negative stereotypes we have are based in truth and reflective of at least a certain portion of the population. The reason it's "okay" to reference those stereotypes when discussing Americans is more to do with the fact that they've not had those terms and stereotypes used to excuse and justify hundreds of years of oppression and mistreatment.

[glimmers_of_hope]

On 8/13/2022 at 11:55 PM, Alvoram said:

I don't think there's any need for xenophobic comments 😕 

Frat culture isn't representative of the entire population of the United States. 

Totally true, 99 also saw amazing albums by magnetic fields, flaming lips, wilco, sleeter kinney, pavement and that's just indie rock,  before you get into pop,  rap, electronic music you can bet if you went to those gigs it was a different vibe. This documentary is just focused on one specific troublesome element. I'm sure if you watched something about a standard British townie club area in the 90s ( and after) there would be loads of really vile behaviour. 

[tarw]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

I think it's a hard stretch to say they were referring to all American's like that. As the discussion went on we've seen it narrowed down to "frat culture" which, as far as I'm aware, is still uniquely American.

Most negative stereotypes we have are based in truth and reflective of at least a certain portion of the population. The reason it's "okay" to reference those stereotypes when discussing Americans is more to do with the fact that they've not had those terms and stereotypes used to excuse and justify hundreds of years of oppression and mistreatment.

WTAF! 
 

Thick Irishmen?

Drunk or mean Scots?

Cowardly French?

[Alvoram]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

I think it's a hard stretch to say they were referring to all American's like that. As the discussion went on we've seen it narrowed down to "frat culture" which, as far as I'm aware, is still uniquely American.

I'm not sure how you could read "typical Yanks can't handle a few beers and act like absolute pricks." and come to any other conclusion to be honest. 🤷‍♂️

 

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

Most negative stereotypes we have are based in truth and reflective of at least a certain portion of the population. The reason it's "okay" to reference those stereotypes when discussing Americans is more to do with the fact that they've not had those terms and stereotypes used to excuse and justify hundreds of years of oppression and mistreatment.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't believe 'hundreds of years of oppression' is a prerequisite to any individual or group being the victims of xenophobia, racism, sexism or any other prejudice. The only prerequisite is the prejudice itself. 

[BobWillis2]

Anyone that’s been in the Caribbean or Mexico during spring break knows that Americans are lightweights and turn into obnoxious idiots when they’ve had a few. 
 

That’s not just the college party kids, that’s the majority of Americans I’ve come across in those situations. Families, couples etc 

Don’t know why it has to be labelled as xenophobic to observe your experiences. 

[Simsy]

36 minutes ago, BobWillis2 said:

Anyone that’s been in the Caribbean or Mexico during spring break knows that Americans are lightweights and turn into obnoxious idiots when they’ve had a few. 
 

That’s not just the college party kids, that’s the majority of Americans I’ve come across in those situations. Families, couples etc 

Don’t know why it has to be labelled as xenophobic to observe your experiences. 

Which is unique to Americans, and never happens with, for example, Brits in Magaluf?

[dotdash79]

People talking about frat culture in the states but not talking about rugby union club culture in the U.K.  

[Spindles]

Indeed, it's as if the late 90s in the UK weren't also defined by the post britpop 'Lad culture'. 

[March Hare]

Don’t get into stereotypes. Saying ‘these people acting like dickheads are dickheads’ is enough.  Don’t need to broaden it.

[Hugh Jass II]

26 minutes ago, Spindles said:

Indeed, it's as if the late 90s in the UK weren't also defined by the post britpop 'Lad culture'. 

Lad Culture talked a big game, but was little more than reading Loaded whilst wearing a bucket hat and listening to Ocean Colour Scene.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Hugh Jass II

[philipsteak]

8 hours ago, dotdash79 said:

People talking about frat culture in the states but not talking about rugby union club culture in the U.K.  

Or fucking stag parties. 

God I hate (most) fucking stag parties

[tarw]

12 hours ago, BobWillis2 said:

Anyone that’s been in the Caribbean or Mexico during spring break knows that Americans are lightweights and turn into obnoxious idiots when they’ve had a few. 
 

That’s not just the college party kids, that’s the majority of Americans I’ve come across in those situations. Families, couples etc 

Don’t know why it has to be labelled as xenophobic to observe your experiences. 

It’s not Xenophobic to observe your experiences. 
What I think is Xenophobic is to think that all Americans behave the same way as a small subset that you have observed, when even then you say it’s not all. 
 

We went on a family holiday in the 2000’s to Zante which at the time was a club 18-30 stronghold. I was embarrassed by what I saw and would hate to think that all the locals would lump us in with them

[DeanoL]

11 hours ago, dotdash79 said:

People talking about frat culture in the states but not talking about rugby union club culture in the U.K.  

I'd imagine it's because Woodstock was in the US and was defined by this. Did Glasto '99 have a huge issue with lad culture?

[Hugh Jass II]

An unfortunate side effect of the doc is that it had me listening to Limp Bizkit...

Take A Look Around fucking slaps though.

[justanotheronethen]

1 hour ago, Hugh Jass II said:

An unfortunate side effect of the doc is that it had me listening to Limp Bizkit...

Take A Look Around fucking slaps though.

I've listened to Korn since I watched this. It's made me want to smash stuff. I'm 47

[Alvoram]

Oh ffs, who resurrected this thread? 

 

On 8/15/2022 at 9:02 PM, BobWillis2 said:

Don’t know why it has to be labelled as xenophobic to observe your experiences. 

This says it best.... 

15 hours ago, tarw said:

It’s not Xenophobic to observe your experiences. 
What I think is Xenophobic is to think that all Americans behave the same way as a small subset that you have observed,

And this is another very good point...

On 8/15/2022 at 9:40 PM, Simsy said:

Which is unique to Americans, and never happens with, for example, Brits in Magaluf?

Would you be happy to be labelled as a drunken sex crazed yobbo, by anybody who's only experience of Brits is in a Spanish resort somewhere? 

[DeanoL]

9 hours ago, Alvoram said:

Would you be happy to be labelled as a drunken sex crazed yobbo, by anybody who's only experience of Brits is in a Spanish resort somewhere? 

Do you think there's no truth to that whatsoever, and Brits in Magaluf are just acting like folk from every other country?

Edited August 17, 2022 by DeanoL

[Hugh Jass II]

Every country or group has a minority of idiots who can't be trusted to go anywhere without acting like twats, you see it whenever England play abroad for example.

Sadly, and despite usually being the minority, these bellends leave the biggest impression.

[gooner1990]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:05 PM, Hugh Jass II said:

Just reading the WIkipedia entry on W99. Apparently the two main stages were over two miles apart!

I mean, it can feel like a slog getting around Glastonbury at times but 2 miles in the blazing heat across two miles of tarmac?

Jesus.

That's probably a 40 min walk, sober with no distractions.

God knows how long when people are mashed up and other things going on around them.

[Hugh Jass II]

Always felt that Wodstock itself has been massively romanticised, and that was what was sold to these kids in 99.

My suspicion has been that if we jumped into a Tardis and got out at W69 and walked around for 15 minutes we'd be "this is shit!"

[Hugh Jass II]

3 minutes ago, gooner1990 said:

That's probably a 40 min walk, sober with no distractions.

God knows how long when people are mashed up and other things going on around them.

Who's bright idea was it to hold Woodstock - the literal embodiment of flower power and 60's counter culture - on a fucking military base??