2024 Festival

[Benj]

34 minutes ago, gfa said:

Those rock bands you stated are headliners though - headliners of all genres stick around e.g. Eminem too

Acts below headliner level are less solidified and therefore come and go i guess, sure theres no manics but its not like theres really lower main stage older rock acts that stick around either

Kids know Green Day Gallagher etc as they are big names who are headliners and therefore still on the radio a bit etc - very few in comparison know Manics or Placebo, more niche acts (still not very niche but niche enough that very few in the core reading age bracket care)

A lot more of them will know about the courteeners than manics/placebo - thats for sure!

My question isn’t so much why they’re not playing today. That is obvious (although I think with the nostalgia boom, 2-3 could help sales to the older types)

My question is why these bands were all dropped like a stone within 5 years of their peak, while Courteeners are still there 15 years past theirs

I think maybe The Strokes are the answer, they turned up and completely changed the indie scene over night.

All these droney, post Britpop efforts suddenly sounded like the old farts and completely ignored by the next generation…

Of 2000-2005ish era, it’s only really Kasabian and Stroked from the Indie scene who have survived really, to the point they could still just about headline.

As discussed Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party, Razorlight all came and went, while the following gen, Courteeners, Wombats etc… have managed to have some proper longevity…

Killers are another I’ve obv forgotten about in all this rambling!

Edited April 2 by Benj

[CharlotteB]

They'll have their time again. Everything seems to come back round for better or worse 😂

Edited April 3 by CharlotteB

[Benj]

2 hours ago, CharlotteB said:

They'll have their time again. Everything seems to come back round for better or worse 😂

That’s the thing they’re all back now, even the likes of Shed 7, Echobelly, Sleeper, Cast… The Courteeners equivalents of the time, 2-3 massive numbers that were indie club stalwarts, amongst a general sea of dross, have had new records out in the last 3-4 years and Reading hasn’t come close to touching them.

They were cast out by the new generation

Ultimately I think the ‘indie’ scene has just not changed since the mid to late 00s. It’s not been THE scene like Britpop was in the late 90s.

Arctic Monkeys turned up, set the standard and nothing new or better has come along to kill off the likes of Courteeners etc. They’ve not been cast out and there has been nothing new to replace them.

‘Dark Fruits’ has become its own thing, a niche, throw back sub genre that in and of itself has only produced one bona fide new star (Although harsh perhaps to pigeon hole Fender like that) that I can think of.

…oh and Catfish I guess, if they can be classed as a bona fide star. They’re the perfect example of endless chances I guess.

 

Suede, Travis, Stereophonics all headlined in the late 90s /early 2000s for the first time and never played the festival again.

Same for Franz Ferdinand and Razorlight in the mid 00s

All bands that were relatively new (on 3rd, 4th LPs at most), suddenly gone and easily replaced by the festival.

I guess they’d kill for a similar carousel of replaceable talent these days

 

[gfa]

12 hours ago, Benj said:

The ones I quoted all headlined. That was the point…

3 messages to get through so bare with on this one! There's far too much to reply to so will just reply to some key bits

Those acts all maintained their headline status here and abroad, feel like the indie ones never did e.g. Manics. Some indie acts as you said have maintained it - although a lot of the big ones parted ways which didn't help. By not having headliners together it makes it harder to hold onto the audience perhaps.

Blur Pulp Stone Roses all have been sparse since 2000 as far as the pre 00s ones go. Most of the 00s ones are 

12 hours ago, Benj said:

My question isn’t so much why they’re not playing today. That is obvious (although I think with the nostalgia boom, 2-3 could help sales to the older types)

My question is why these bands were all dropped like a stone within 5 years of their peak, while Courteeners are still there 15 years past theirs

I think maybe The Strokes are the answer, they turned up and completely changed the indie scene over night.

All these droney, post Britpop efforts suddenly sounded like the old farts and completely ignored by the next generation…

Of 2000-2005ish era, it’s only really Kasabian and Stroked from the Indie scene who have survived really, to the point they could still just about headline.

As discussed Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party, Razorlight all came and went, while the following gen, Courteeners, Wombats etc… have managed to have some proper longevity…

Killers are another I’ve obv forgotten about in all this rambling!

The Strokes couldn't headline - not the main slot anyway. Kasabian couldn't either - not post-Tom

I think r.e. courteeneers it probably helps their biggest song is aimed directly at about a good 20% Reading's core audience, 19 year olds. Sure it doesn't do all the work - but its a song that will never cease to be relevant, just like how people want AM to play their early stuff about nights out in sheffield etc

55 minutes ago, Benj said:

That’s the thing they’re all back now, even the likes of Shed 7, Echobelly, Sleeper, Cast… The Courteeners equivalents of the time, 2-3 massive numbers that were indie club stalwarts, amongst a general sea of dross, have had new records out in the last 3-4 years and Reading hasn’t come close to touching them.

They were cast out by the new generation

Ultimately I think the ‘indie’ scene has just not changed since the mid to late 00s. It’s not been THE scene like Britpop was in the late 90s.

Arctic Monkeys turned up, set the standard and nothing new or better has come along to kill off the likes of Courteeners etc. They’ve not been cast out and there has been nothing new to replace them.

‘Dark Fruits’ has become its own thing, a niche, throw back sub genre that in and of itself has only produced one bona fide new star (Although harsh perhaps to pigeon hole Fender like that) that I can think of.

…oh and Catfish I guess, if they can be classed as a bona fide star. They’re the perfect example of endless chances I guess.

 

Suede, Travis, Stereophonics all headlined in the late 90s /early 2000s for the first time and never played the festival again.

Same for Franz Ferdinand and Razorlight in the mid 00s

All bands that were relatively new (on 3rd, 4th LPs at most), suddenly gone and easily replaced by the festival.

I guess they’d kill for a similar carousel of replaceable talent these days

 

Its strange acts like Franz and Razorlight never returned. Oversight really - I guess its cheaper to get acts that are 'blowing up' - something which happens much quicker now maybe?

Razorlight not so much but an act like Franz who have a bit more going on i.e. acclaim etc (bloc party also come to mind) have more choices and a lot of fests are after them. Franz could play almost any mid-large festival in the uk and wouldn't look out of place i think

[On The Blend]

32 minutes ago, gfa said:

just like how people want AM to play their early stuff about nights out in sheffield etc

In fairness this is also because their later stuff is absolute dross...

[Benj]

1 hour ago, gfa said:

3 messages to get through so bare with on this one! There's far too much to reply to so will just reply to some key bits

Those acts all maintained their headline status here and abroad, feel like the indie ones never did e.g. Manics. Some indie acts as you said have maintained it - although a lot of the big ones parted ways which didn't help. By not having headliners together it makes it harder to hold onto the audience perhaps.

Blur Pulp Stone Roses all have been sparse since 2000 as far as the pre 00s ones go. Most of the 00s ones are 

The Strokes couldn't headline - not the main slot anyway. Kasabian couldn't either - not post-Tom

I think r.e. courteeneers it probably helps their biggest song is aimed directly at about a good 20% Reading's core audience, 19 year olds. Sure it doesn't do all the work - but its a song that will never cease to be relevant, just like how people want AM to play their early stuff about nights out in sheffield etc

Its strange acts like Franz and Razorlight never returned. Oversight really - I guess its cheaper to get acts that are 'blowing up' - something which happens much quicker now maybe?

Razorlight not so much but an act like Franz who have a bit more going on i.e. acclaim etc (bloc party also come to mind) have more choices and a lot of fests are after them. Franz could play almost any mid-large festival in the uk and wouldn't look out of place i think

The question is (or at least the one I want answered) is why did they die so quickly, to never be allowed a return…

Maybe it’s as simple as the alternative scene back then was a lot more about being ‘alternative’, as was the festival

Reading was a properly alternative event 90s to 2003-05ish, it wasn’t the thing ALL leavers went to.
 

Being popular was not alternative. It wasn’t cool, no one going to Reading would suddenly be seen dead listening to Travis, once their mum was singing along to “Why does it always rain on me”, no one wanted to be associated with them.

These days the festival is mainstream and acts becoming mainstream does not kill their appeal to the audience.

How many acts who’ve headlined (as in MSE not sub heads), in the last 10 years do we think would never be booked at the festival again?

Edited April 3 by Benj

[Andre91]

51 minutes ago, Benj said:

 

How many acts who’ve headlined (as in MSE not sub heads), in the last 10 years do we think would never be booked at the festival again?

Honestly, the only ones from 2014 onwards who I don’t think they will ever book again for sure are Mumford & Sons. They just don’t fit at all. 
 

Kings of Leon possibly as well but other than that, I think everyone who has been MSE / the Main headliner could get booked again.

[gfa]

1 hour ago, On The Blend said:

In fairness this is also because their later stuff is absolute dross...

The two new albums sure, but plenty of people don't care much for AM, one of the best selling rock albums of the 10s and just want albums 1+2 (myself included!)

1 hour ago, Benj said:

The question is (or at least the one I want answered) is why did they die so quickly, to never be allowed a return…

Maybe it’s as simple as the alternative scene back then was a lot more about being ‘alternative’, as was the festival

Reading was a properly alternative event 90s to 2003-05ish, it wasn’t the thing ALL leavers went to.
 

Being popular was not alternative. It wasn’t cool, no one going to Reading would suddenly be seen dead listening to Travis, once their mum was singing along to “Why does it always rain on me”, no one wanted to be associated with them.

These days the festival is mainstream and acts becoming mainstream does not kill their appeal to the audience.

How many acts who’ve headlined (as in MSE not sub heads), in the last 10 years do we think would never be booked at the festival again?

I agree with Andre ^ KOL and Mumford won't agree a slot again, Mumford would probably take the second slot but i don't think they'd be first choice by any means! Panic too if we're counting them.

Potentially an act could get too big to return, I don't think this will happen to Billie but its possible to happen to someone in the future maybe. Kendrick could be too big to return, not sure he offers value for how much he costs compared to cheaper options like Dave and Stormzy who there's a fair chance will end up playing every few years for the next 10 years+

If the dance trend dies down then maybe Fred too

Metallica right at the end of 10 years won't be back either i don't think - not sure Libs could agree a decent slot either. 2015 definitely seems the least likely to have returners!

Edited April 3 by gfa

[Andre91]

9 minutes ago, gfa said:

The two new albums sure, but plenty of people don't care much for AM, one of the best selling rock albums of the 10s and just want albums 1+2 (myself included!)

I agree with Andre ^ KOL and Mumford won't agree a slot again, Mumford would probably take the second slot but i don't think they'd be first choice by any means! Panic too if we're counting them.

Potentially an act could get too big to return, I don't think this will happen to Billie but its possible to happen to someone in the future maybe. Kendrick could be too big to return, not sure he offers value for how much he costs compared to cheaper options like Dave and Stormzy who there's a fair chance will end up playing every few years for the next 10 years+

If the dance trend dies down then maybe Fred too

Metallica right at the end of 10 years won't be back either i don't think - not sure Libs could agree a decent slot either. 2015 definitely seems the least likely to have returners!

Totally skipped over The Libertines. I don’t think they’ll ever return either. 
 

Metallica could be booked at any time still, I think. Ubiquitously huge band like Foos and RHCP who will always bring in the punters. 

[Benj]

29 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Totally skipped over The Libertines. I don’t think they’ll ever return either. 
 

Metallica could be booked at any time still, I think. Ubiquitously huge band like Foos and RHCP who will always bring in the punters. 

I think they could both be back, in The Libertines case obv not as headliners (3rd top at best?) but I think both bands are worth more to other festivals so may never be made an attractive offer that seems them there. 

[Andre91]

4 minutes ago, Benj said:

I think they could both be back, in The Libertines case obv not as headliners (3rd top at best?) but I think both bands are worth more to other festivals so may never be made an attractive offer that seems them there. 

I was semi-expecting The Libs the last couple of years to turn up around third down Main but the more time goes by and they aren’t booked, the more I think they won’t ever be back, similar to Bloc Party. 

[gfa]

1 hour ago, Andre91 said:

Totally skipped over The Libertines. I don’t think they’ll ever return either. 
 

Metallica could be booked at any time still, I think. Ubiquitously huge band like Foos and RHCP who will always bring in the punters. 

Foos and RHCP fit way better with the audience though - sure they bring their own fans in just like RHCP and Foos do, but theres a lot less crossover i'd say

37 minutes ago, Benj said:

I think they could both be back, in The Libertines case obv not as headliners (3rd top at best?) but I think both bands are worth more to other festivals so may never be made an attractive offer that seems them there. 

3rd top is generous honestly - their own shows are really not big and they headline very small fests nowadays (hence probably can't agree a slot)

[Benj]

2 minutes ago, gfa said:

Foos and RHCP fit way better with the audience though - sure they bring their own fans in just like RHCP and Foos do, but theres a lot less crossover i'd say

3rd top is generous honestly - their own shows are really not big and they headline very small fests nowadays (hence probably can't agree a slot)

Yup. FR headliner almost seems like the best spot, maybe just about R1 tent headliner?

I guess this is why they’re not booked…they’re not a mainstream staple, yet can prob still earn a fair bit more elsewhere than it would be cost effected for Reading to put them in a slot that would provide value to the lineup

[charlierc]

9 hours ago, gfa said:

Its strange acts like Franz and Razorlight never returned. Oversight really - I guess its cheaper to get acts that are 'blowing up' - something which happens much quicker now maybe?

Razorlight not so much but an act like Franz who have a bit more going on i.e. acclaim etc (bloc party also come to mind) have more choices and a lot of fests are after them. Franz could play almost any mid-large festival in the uk and wouldn't look out of place i think

Franz Ferdinand seemed to lose momentum in the gap between their second and third albums, which seemed to have some kind of overlong development issues through 2007 and 2008. But I also wonder if the band themselves have kinda preferred just being able to make a career out of music at a solid level rather than moonshot for stadium headliners, not that there's anything wrong with that. Certainly, they've done Truck and I could see them also doing a job at something like Y Not.

They still have some reputation tbf. Saw them at Mad Cool in 2018 as a post-headliner course after Arctics leading into the "until 4am" dance stuff and they were very good, plus a decent crowd was there for them at Ally Pally two years ago.

[charlierc]

8 hours ago, On The Blend said:

In fairness this is also because their later stuff is absolute dross...

Eh. I think there's some decent songs scattered around TBHC & The Car, and stuff from the latter went down better than I thought it would when I saw them in Middlesbrough last summer.

I mean, naturally, the singles from the first 2 albums and AM got the biggest reactions, but that was to be expected.

[glastorome]

23 hours ago, Benj said:

That’s the thing they’re all back now, even the likes of Shed 7, Echobelly, Sleeper, Cast… The Courteeners equivalents of the time, 2-3 massive numbers that were indie club stalwarts, amongst a general sea of dross, have had new records out in the last 3-4 years and Reading hasn’t come close to touching them.

They were cast out by the new generation

Ultimately I think the ‘indie’ scene has just not changed since the mid to late 00s. It’s not been THE scene like Britpop was in the late 90s.

Arctic Monkeys turned up, set the standard and nothing new or better has come along to kill off the likes of Courteeners etc. They’ve not been cast out and there has been nothing new to replace them.

‘Dark Fruits’ has become its own thing, a niche, throw back sub genre that in and of itself has only produced one bona fide new star (Although harsh perhaps to pigeon hole Fender like that) that I can think of.

…oh and Catfish I guess, if they can be classed as a bona fide star. They’re the perfect example of endless chances I guess.

 

Suede, Travis, Stereophonics all headlined in the late 90s /early 2000s for the first time and never played the festival again.

Same for Franz Ferdinand and Razorlight in the mid 00s

All bands that were relatively new (on 3rd, 4th LPs at most), suddenly gone and easily replaced by the festival.

I guess they’d kill for a similar carousel of replaceable talent these days

 

Suede, Travis ect dont need to worry about playing R&L again though as there's that many smaller festivals and city festivals/weekenders popping up, there's more of a broader market for these bands to make a return or keep going. 

There's a new weekender in my home town of Hull this August, I'm off to one night headlined by Ocean Colour Scene, with Cast and Embrace supporting, the final night is headlined by Razorlight. Then theres Tramlines and the Butlins weekenders that have given these bands a new lease of life on the festival/weekender circuit. 

Leeds has always tried to cater to a younger market, this year feels like a rebrand though after the 2 main stage experiment. 

[Benj]

1 hour ago, glastorome said:

Leeds has always tried to cater to a younger market, this year feels like a rebrand though after the 2 main stage experiment. 

The younger market is no longer selling out the festival though and they seem to have turned off a lot of the older crowd over the, thankfully shortlived, 2 main stage era, with no one else to see why Willow Smith, Mimi Webb etc are on....

It would be interesting if they could encourage those people back with blatant nostalgia grabs, given its clearly something that sells so well now. 

Its obvious a richer demographic more likely to spend more on-site too, so FR must be desperate to court them back, having lost them to the smaller festivals etc...

 

[glastorome]

37 minutes ago, Benj said:

The younger market is no longer selling out the festival though and they seem to have turned off a lot of the older crowd over the, thankfully shortlived, 2 main stage era, with no one else to see why Willow Smith, Mimi Webb etc are on....

It would be interesting if they could encourage those people back with blatant nostalgia grabs, given its clearly something that sells so well now. 

Its obvious a richer demographic more likely to spend more on-site too, so FR must be desperate to court them back, having lost them to the smaller festivals etc...

 

I haven't been to Leeds since 2019 but the Sunday run of Fred-Lana-Raye was too good to pass up, it'll be interesting to see how full it is on the Sunday as I think that top three will be a big pull for all ages, Im 42. 

If the Chevron stage is a success that will pull in a different crowd to previous years, in previous years there was no where on the R&L lineup for the likes of The Prodigy to play. We'll be seeing Goddard on that stage on the Sunday to see what that stage is like. 

[Benj]

29 minutes ago, glastorome said:

I haven't been to Leeds since 2019 but the Sunday run of Fred-Lana-Raye was too good to pass up, it'll be interesting to see how full it is on the Sunday as I think that top three will be a big pull for all ages, Im 42. 

If the Chevron stage is a success that will pull in a different crowd to previous years, in previous years there was no where on the R&L lineup for the likes of The Prodigy to play. We'll be seeing Goddard on that stage on the Sunday to see what that stage is like. 

I’d assume the Fred Lana day will be by far the busiest at the main stage at both sites

The Gallagher, CATBM day will be interesting to see. With it being Sunday, I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the kids eff off early that day, the alternatives for anyone under 20 are pretty slim post 21 Savage.  (This is with the assumption they’re not all mad into Skrillex)

[Andre91]

37 minutes ago, Benj said:

I’d assume the Fred Lana day will be by far the busiest at the main stage at both sites

The Gallagher, CATBM day will be interesting to see. With it being Sunday, I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the kids eff off early that day, the alternatives for anyone under 20 are pretty slim post 21 Savage.  (This is with the assumption they’re not all mad into Skrillex)

The kids will be staying for Catfish and LG (especially LG). There’s no doubting that. He’s some sort of higher being in their eyes. 

[Benj]

38 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

The kids will be staying for Catfish and LG (especially LG). There’s no doubting that. He’s some sort of higher being in their eyes. 

They didn’t all stay last time, there was a huge migration out on the Sunday

Are a load of under 20s really still into CATBM too?

Again my anecdotal is limited to 3 16-20 year olds (2 of which have been to reading, indeed one left on the Sunday 2021 pre Gallagher) but they couldn’t be less interested…

Edited April 4 by Benj

[Andre91]

2 hours ago, Benj said:

They didn’t all stay last time, there was a huge migration out on the Sunday

Are a load of under 20s really still into CATBM too?

Again my anecdotal is limited to 3 16-20 year olds (2 of which have been to reading, indeed one left on the Sunday 2021 pre Gallagher) but they couldn’t be less interested…

The only evidence I have to go off of is when I camped at Leeds 2021, we were surrounded by two different groups of around fifteen to twenty 17 and 18 year olds and every single one of them was excited for Catfish. Catfish also had the biggest crowd I’ve seen at MSW that year too, so yeah, I would say that a lot of 20 and unders are going to be wanting to see them this year. 

Edited April 4 by Andre91

[Benj]

4 hours ago, Andre91 said:

The only evidence I have to go off of is when I camped at Leeds 2021, we were surrounded by two different groups of around fifteen to twenty 17 and 18 year olds and every single one of them was excited for Catfish. Catfish also had the biggest crowd I’ve seen at MSW that year too, so yeah, I would say that a lot of 20 and unders are going to be wanting to see them this year. 

3 years ago…

They’ll do fine, I suspect there will be many, many kids that don’t give the slightest of f**ks though, I reckon Raye will get a bigger crowd 

Just noticed they’ve not managed to sell out 10,000 tickets at Cardiff Castle…

Edited April 4 by Benj

[Neil]

3 hours ago, Benj said:

not managed to sell out 10,000 tickets at Cardiff Castle…

from memory i don't think that's particularly unusual, i think a lot of the Cardiff castle bookings have tended to have a lot of other shows at around the same time , which possibly impacts onto castle sales.

[gfa]

TBH I think the lineup is 100% there

the issue is the price. my first one it was £250 ish now its close to £400. obviously a lot of people get the money from parents but its got to the point where its a lot to even ask off parents, especially when everyone is holding back on spending.

for the young people with saturday jobs etc its like a whole months wage basically. they need to find a way to reign in the cost, its more than Glastonbury this year even!! (probably for the first time ever?)