Craft and (crap) beer at Glastonbury

[p.pete]

3 hours ago, Jose Pose said:

The bins are painted by volunteers though, and they raise money for charity by doing it, it’s a nice touch but it’s no skin of Glastonbury’s nose.

We all know the food is great at Glastonbury, but that is because they can invite individual traders on-site to sell it and charge them up to £20k per pitch to do it, so it actually benefits them hugely financially.

Carlsberg most probably pay Glastonbury for the privilege of handing over and distributing hundreds of thousands of litres of beer for them, that’s a ginormous financial and logistical hole for them to try and plug to try and provide an alternative that would ultimately only be for a relative minority, and it wouldn’t make any difference to them commercially in tickets sales.

But it was skin off G's nose to: have a giant crane brought onsite; build a pier; add the Park area; (try to) go above and beyond other festivals with lineups; (at least) think about gender equality of acts etc.  Bins are just another example.

Carlsberg haven't always supplied the beer - maybe they're doing a great job at what they've been asked to do at the moment, maybe others can do an equally decent job in the future when contracts are being reorganised and potentially restructured to allow for different things to happen.

Absolutely they make money from food and beer at the moment, but they definitely wouldn't dream of adding craft beer in the future without it bringing in a revenue too.

[Skip997]

3 hours ago, Jose Pose said:

The bins are painted by volunteers though, and they raise money for charity by doing it, it’s a nice touch but it’s no skin of Glastonbury’s nose.

Don't know how it works now, but when Hank and Ray were in charge of bin painting they were (to the best of my knowledge) getting paid. The rest of their team were volunteers.

[Boomtowner]

The Brooklyn beer was a good addition in 2017, they were the only pints I bought that weekend. But they are still Carlsberg beers. I would rather support independents but if it needs to be Carlsberg , why can't they stock the like of Brooklyn, London Fields or any of the small brewers that they've purchased in the last few years.

[Jose Pose]

25 minutes ago, p.pete said:

But it was skin off G's nose to: have a giant crane brought onsite; build a pier; add the Park area; (try to) go above and beyond other festivals with lineups; (at least) think about gender equality of acts etc.  Bins are just another example.

Carlsberg haven't always supplied the beer - maybe they're doing a great job at what they've been asked to do at the moment, maybe others can do an equally decent job in the future when contracts are being reorganised and potentially restructured to allow for different things to happen.

Absolutely they make money from food and beer at the moment, but they definitely wouldn't dream of adding craft beer in the future without it bringing in a revenue too.

Just totally, totally different things though aren’t they?

Glastonbury has to do those things to be Glastonbury, it’s what sets it apart isn’t it?

The beer they serve is neither here nor there by comparison, it isn’t a craft beer festival and that isn’t why people go there, plus it’s not like they don’t have alternative options, it’s just they aren’t quite up to scratch for what is ultimately a very tiny niche section of the people who go. If they switched from Carlsberg to a different lager it would make zero difference to anyone come ticket day, one way or the other.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Jose Pose

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, Jose Pose said:

The beer they serve is neither here nor there by comparison, it isn’t a craft beer festival and that isn’t why people go there, plus it’s not like they don’t have alternative options, it’s just they aren’t quite up to scratch for what is ultimately a very tiny niche section of the people who go.

Alternatives a plenty and some are far cheaper per night than alcohol.

[p.pete]

33 minutes ago, Jose Pose said:

Just totally, totally different things though aren’t they?

Glastonbury has to do those things to be Glastonbury, it’s what sets it apart isn’t it?

The beer they serve is neither here nor there by comparison, it isn’t a craft beer festival and that isn’t why people go there, plus it’s not like they don’t have alternative options, it’s just they aren’t quite up to scratch for what is ultimately a very tiny niche section of the people who go. If they switched from Carlsberg to a different lager it would make zero difference to anyone come ticket day, one way or the other.

I mean, yes - I mentioned bins, stages, installations, food and drink - lots of totally different things that add together to make a great festival.  Glastonbury seem generally great at leaving no stone unturned, which is why the beer situation is so surprising.  But they also go out of their way to get the infrastructure right to be able to do things on a large scale, so maybe not so surprising.

You've suggested a couple of times that this would be niche and wouldn't be of interest to many people - you might be spot on, no idea (I'd suggest starting small if it gets introduced).  There are a few tap rooms around where I am, they seem to do a good trade but obviously still nowhere near the scale of more typical bars - but then more typical bars generally have a hell of a lot more range than they used to, so possibly there's some sort of meeting in the middle (esp. if Carlsberg are buying up some of the smaller craft companies).

Not even sure I'd be much of a customer for any craft offering at Glastonbury.  I think it's a shame that it's not there, but one of my many favourite things about the festival is being able to bring my own stuff, and I expect that I'd shudder at the prices, marked up further to festival prices.  Doesn't mean I don't think it'd be a great addition if they can make it work though.

[Alvoram]

Ok, back to Cloudwater for a moment, I can confirm that their trade prices for 9 gallon casks are quite literally double any other independent brewery we use. We’d have to sell their beers for £8 per pint minimum!!! And even then the GP on a pint would be a much lower percentage than say Castle Rock beers. (GP is a tricky measure to use with premium products though, 30%GP on an £8 pint is more profit per pint than 50% GP on a £4 pint, for example.)

It’s fair to say we wouldn’t be able to stock that, it just wouldn’t sell quickly enough, and we’d waste it. (It would sell, there are some who’d appreciate it here for sure, but sadly not enough.)  

Edited January 26, 2023 by Alvoram

[kingbadger]

It's £7.50 a pint for shitty Carlsberg, imagine it'd be over £10 for anything decent. Rather they just get a better standard lager and a bog standard IPA on every bar.

[fightoffyour]

10 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

Ok, back to Cloudwater for a moment, I can confirm that their trade prices for 9 gallon casks are quite literally double any other independent brewery we use. We’d have to sell their beers for £8 per pint minimum!!! And even then the GP on a pint would be a much lower percentage than say Castle Rock beers. (GP is a tricky measure to use with premium products though, 30%GP on an £8 pint is more profit per pint than 50% GP on a £4 pint, for example.)

It’s fair to say we wouldn’t be able to stock that, it just wouldn’t sell quickly enough, and we’d waste it. (It would sell, there are some who’d appreciate it here for sure, but sadly not enough.)  

What about getting cans in? My feeling is that every pub should be able to at least stock a few decent cans of beer just for those people who will appreciate / don't want the normal crap without worrying about it going off for at least 6 months. but maybe it doesn't work like that in terms of margins / order quantities.

[Jose Pose]

42 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

It's £7.50 a pint for shitty Carlsberg, imagine it'd be over £10 for anything decent. Rather they just get a better standard lager and a bog standard IPA on every bar.

But is it actually though!? Don’t remember paying £7.50 anywhere. Pints were no more than £6.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Jose Pose

[kingbadger]

45 minutes ago, Jose Pose said:

But is it actually though!? Don’t remember paying £7.50 anywhere. Pints were no more than £6.

Swear it was around £7.50 but could easily be wrong and getting it mixed up with elsewhere. My memory for these things is shit. Point still stands though, would rather the option of a good lager and a decent IPA for the current price as opposed to trying to create a couple of craft tents. Works well at  Bearded Theory where it's akin to a beer festival, can't see it happening at Glastonbury. 

[Jose Pose]

28 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

Swear it was around £7.50 but could easily be wrong and getting it mixed up with elsewhere. My memory for these things is shit. Point still stands though, would rather the option of a good lager and a decent IPA for the current price as opposed to trying to create a couple of craft tents. Works well at  Bearded Theory where it's akin to a beer festival, can't see it happening at Glastonbury. 

Check out the 2022 bar prices thread, a pint was generally £6 or under:

 

[p.pete]

8 minutes ago, Jose Pose said:

Check out the 2022 bar prices thread, a pint was generally £6 or under:

 

Oooh, £4 for a can of Redbull seems okay.  Might bring in some buckfast this year if that's available as a mixer.

[Alvoram]

3 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

What about getting cans in? My feeling is that every pub should be able to at least stock a few decent cans of beer just for those people who will appreciate / don't want the normal crap without worrying about it going off for at least 6 months. but maybe it doesn't work like that in terms of margins / order quantities.

Of course, but not cloudwater sadly… £4.37 per can or £50 for a pack of 12, and that’s ‘supposed’ to be trade prices!!! 

There are lots of really good craft / micro breweries out there making really good hoppy ales without charging these prices. 
 

for example… Cloudwater…

vs Amundsen, from the same wholesaler…

 

It may be the best beer you’ve ever tasted, (and a little stronger, you’d usually expect a very small increase based on strength) but more than twice the price? Really? I’m starting to side with @The Nal here… They’re trying their hand at extracting the urine. 
 

 

[Greenelk]

Having tasted both of those beers @Alvoram I'm afraid to say in my opinion the Cloudwater is worth a lot more than that particular Amundsen, but do accept that double the price seems excessive.  The ABV will obviously be part of that as you say, and the Amundsen one is brewed with supermarkets in mind (pretty sure you can pick that up in M&S in smaller cans), so sadly the quality isn't as good (that's a whole other debate), but can see from your point of view trying to sell it to the casual punter why it seems ridiculous.

On the other hand, you'll have got the Cloudwater geeks (myself included) excited that it must be almost time for this years Chubbles releases!

Edited January 26, 2023 by Greenelk

[jonday81]

1 hour ago, Greenelk said:

Having tasted both of those beers @Alvoram I'm afraid to say in my opinion the Cloudwater is worth a lot more than that particular Amundsen, but do accept that double the price seems excessive.  The ABV will obviously be part of that as you say, and the Amundsen one is brewed with supermarkets in mind (pretty sure you can pick that up in M&S in smaller cans), so sadly the quality isn't as good (that's a whole other debate), but can see from your point of view trying to sell it to the casual punter why it seems ridiculous.

On the other hand, you'll have got the Cloudwater geeks (myself included) excited that it must be almost time for this years Chubbles releases!

🤤

[fightoffyour]

3 hours ago, Alvoram said:

Of course, but not cloudwater sadly… £4.37 per can or £50 for a pack of 12, and that’s ‘supposed’ to be trade prices!!! 

There are lots of really good craft / micro breweries out there making really good hoppy ales without charging these prices. 
 

for example… Cloudwater…

vs Amundsen, from the same wholesaler…

 

It may be the best beer you’ve ever tasted, (and a little stronger, you’d usually expect a very small increase based on strength) but more than twice the price? Really? I’m starting to side with @The Nal here… They’re trying their hand at extracting the urine. 
 

 

As I said earlier, the price is all in the hops. Chubbles will be absolutey loaded compared to the Amundsen. And then they're brewing at scale for supermarkets, I'm not at all surprised it's half the price.

Anyway, I'm off to Cloudwater and Track for most of tomorrow and a bit of Saturday.

[kingbadger]

Should just go balls to the wall and just let Omnipollo run all of the bars.

[balti-pie]

An omnipollo bar would be absolutely amazing 🤩 soft serve pecan mud cake noa for breakfast ffs! 

[Alvoram]

5 hours ago, Greenelk said:

Having tasted both of those beers @Alvoram I'm afraid to say in my opinion the Cloudwater is worth a lot more than that particular Amundsen, but do accept that double the price seems excessive.  The ABV will obviously be part of that as you say, and the Amundsen one is brewed with supermarkets in mind (pretty sure you can pick that up in M&S in smaller cans), so sadly the quality isn't as good (that's a whole other debate), but can see from your point of view trying to sell it to the casual punter why it seems ridiculous.

On the other hand, you'll have got the Cloudwater geeks (myself included) excited that it must be almost time for this years Chubbles releases!

Out of interest, how much would you be willing to pay in a 'northern' pub for a can of Chubbles? 

I've tried Amundsen btw, it was just the first example, all other (none cloudwater) breweries are similarly priced to that, give or take a couple of quid a case. 

[balti-pie]

I’d expect to pay probs £10 for a can of Chubbles in a pub. I’d be absolutely chuffed to do so. (Previous iterations of it have been 11% ish, so it’s not a mess around beer at all!) 

[Memory Man]

Seems fairly cut and dry with the bars to me. They need the volume and only large suppliers like carlsberg can do the volume. In exchange / as part of the deal they get exclusivity.

exceptions given to brothers and cider bus due to being cider, not beer, and their long term relationship & locality to the festival

any “craft” brands would be the ones carlsberg own. Even if up for re-negotiation i dont really see craft making its way in as the sheer volume necessary will require a macro provider.

In short, bring your own craft cans and buy a nice pint of cider bus or brothers when you fancy it. 
 

the less said about warm ale straight from the cask without a hand pull the better, even if you can be arsed to walk to acoustic field. LOVE cask ale but needs a dispense and temperature they are either unwilling or unable to provide, ie cellar temp and a handpull

Edited January 26, 2023 by Memory Man

[Alvoram]

8 minutes ago, balti-pie said:

I’d expect to pay probs £10 for a can of Chubbles in a pub. I’d be absolutely chuffed to do so. (Previous iterations of it have been 11% ish, so it’s not a mess around beer at all!) 

Well, what do I know, I suppose there's nothing to lose really. 🤷‍♂️ Either they sell, or they come to the farm with me... 😉

I could price that particular one a little less than that to be fair, as previously mentioned, you have to take more into consideration than a GP% when it comes to products way above your normal price points. If I tried to make the same GP from my Rib Eyes as I do from my Jambalaya, I'd be asking people to pay £80 for a steak. 😂

Having said that, you mentioned the 10% one... If I sold that at £10 per can, I'd litterally be giving it away... It costs us £7.21... £10 minus the VAT leaves us £8.33... (the cost price excludes VAT, so nothing to be claimed back there either. 😞 )


It'd probably be £12 minimum for the stronger ones, but I'm still tempted to try it out, if it's really as good as people suggest (and more importantly, from a business pov, as popular.) Worst that could happen is I get to take some incredible beers to Glasto with me. 

But I've just done some more research, found articles from 2017 where thousands of people were defending a pub for charging £13.40 for a pint of Cloudwater, because like you guys, they felt it was some of the best beer in the world and warranted that price, back in 2017!!!

So I say again, what do I know... 🤷‍♂️ You learn something new every day!

 

17 minutes ago, Memory Man said:

Seems fairly cut and dry with the bars to me. They need the volume and only large suppliers like carlsberg can do the volume. In exchange / as part of the deal they get exclusivity.

exceptions given to brothers and cider bus due to being cider, not beer, and their long term relationship & locality to the festival

any “craft” brands would be the ones carlsberg own. Even if up for re-negotiation i dont really see craft making its way in as the sheer volume necessary will require a macro provider.

In short, bring your own craft cans and buy a nice pint of cider bus or brothers when you fancy it. 
 

the less said about warm ale straight from the cask without a hand pull the better, even if you can be arsed to walk to acoustic field. LOVE cask ale but needs a dispense and temperature they are either unwilling or unable to provide, ie cellar temp and a handpull

They weren't even trying, the casks I tried didn't even have a cask jacket on them. Those cask jackets work quite well, and connect up to a standard remote, there's no excuse for that. Honestly, like you, I'd rather they just stuck with kegged craft, or even cans, and I'd usually choose cask in a pub too. 

[fightoffyour]

5 hours ago, Alvoram said:

Well, what do I know, I suppose there's nothing to lose really. 🤷‍♂️ Either they sell, or they come to the farm with me... 😉

I could price that particular one a little less than that to be fair, as previously mentioned, you have to take more into consideration than a GP% when it comes to products way above your normal price points. If I tried to make the same GP from my Rib Eyes as I do from my Jambalaya, I'd be asking people to pay £80 for a steak. 😂

Having said that, you mentioned the 10% one... If I sold that at £10 per can, I'd litterally be giving it away... It costs us £7.21... £10 minus the VAT leaves us £8.33... (the cost price excludes VAT, so nothing to be claimed back there either. 😞 )


It'd probably be £12 minimum for the stronger ones, but I'm still tempted to try it out, if it's really as good as people suggest (and more importantly, from a business pov, as popular.) Worst that could happen is I get to take some incredible beers to Glasto with me. 

But I've just done some more research, found articles from 2017 where thousands of people were defending a pub for charging £13.40 for a pint of Cloudwater, because like you guys, they felt it was some of the best beer in the world and warranted that price, back in 2017!!!

So I say again, what do I know... 🤷‍♂️ You learn something new every day!

 

They weren't even trying, the casks I tried didn't even have a cask jacket on them. Those cask jackets work quite well, and connect up to a standard remote, there's no excuse for that. Honestly, like you, I'd rather they just stuck with kegged craft, or even cans, and I'd usually choose cask in a pub too. 

Would also pay £10 in a pub for Chubbles or £12 for TIPA easily. Any idea when the pre order is for? Might be able to get an early can today if I’m lucky.

[Isaact]

On 1/24/2023 at 7:42 PM, The Nal said:

More likely that their prices are too high so people arent buying enough of their overpriced product to cover their material and running costs.

 

On 1/25/2023 at 8:36 AM, The Nal said:

£4 for a 440ml can of beer. 

https://shop.cloudwaterbrew.co/collections/by-style-pale/products/socal-bright-pale?variant=39838849400912

 

This is properly stupid. Like saying all bottles of wine should be £6 supermarket wine, and why would you ever pay anything more.