Doune The Rabbit Hole 23 - Liquidation Notice

[spudthemariner]

Morning, any folks hoping to attend next years Doune The Rabbit Hole, the company has gone into liquidation, and there are reports that crew and artists from this year have not yet been paid. Tickets are apparently still on sale though....

Gutted, was a great wee festi (oh, and we'd already paid for tickets...meh...)

[scatteredscreens]

7 hours ago, spudthemariner said:

Morning, any folks hoping to attend next years Doune The Rabbit Hole, the company has gone into liquidation, and there are reports that crew and artists from this year have not yet been paid. Tickets are apparently still on sale though....

Gutted, was a great wee festi (oh, and we'd already paid for tickets...meh...)

Terrible way to treat artists and potential purchasers. Especially given the fuckery going on behind the scenes and still selling tickets as if nothing is happening. Someone pointed out on twitter they've changed the entire company name as well.

[Paul ™]

[Paul ™]

Something not right with what they are saying here.

The Murray family who ran the previous company FDTRHF REALISATIONS LIMITED which was ran by Jamie Murray, which have now filed for liquidation are still involved with this other company and the previous company too

 

DOUNE THE RABBIT HOLE C.I.C.

Company number SC393275

MURRAY, Jamie Douglas

Incorporated on

10 February 2011

Company status

Dissolved

Dissolved on

22 September 2020

 

FESTIVAL BEVERAGE AND PROPERTY SERVICES LIMITED

Company number SC594737

MURRAY, Craig John

Incorporated on

18 April 2018

 

FDTRHF REALISATIONS LIMITED

Company number SC693771

MURRAY, Jamie Douglas

Incorporated on

29 March 2021

Company status

Liquidation

8 December 2022

 

Both Jamie and Craig Murray have the same correspondence address as 

674 Pollokshaws Road, Glasgow, Scotland, G41 2QE

This might be a coincidence, but what it looks like to me is they are folding the company to avoid paying the artists and crew who are awaiting payment from this year's event.

I'd be very weary about giving ticket money to this event, especially as they are using WeScanTickets for payment platform which means the Murray family get the payment direct and doesn't get held as such by your usual ticket agents to use for refunds if required after cancellation.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Paul ™

[Neil]

4 hours ago, Paul ™ said:

This might be a coincidence, but what it looks like to me is they are folding the company to avoid paying the artists and crew who are awaiting payment from this year's event.

if they don't have the money to pay them, then they have to 'avoid' paying them. Must be hell  trying to plot a path thru a financial nightmare.

[spudthemariner]

Certainly been an interesting 24 hours.... Obviously, we don't want the festival to fail, but quite a few folks are apparently out of pocket, so I'm not sure how I feel about things at it stands...that said, we paid upfront months ago, so regardless we've got to sit and wait.

They clearly went all out this year (lineup wise etc) in an effort to boom or bust....and well, bust...hmm....

[clarkete]

8 hours ago, Paul ™ said:

Something not right with what they are saying here.

The Murray family who ran the previous company FDTRHF REALISATIONS LIMITED which was ran by Jamie Murray, which have now filed for liquidation are still involved with this other company and the previous company too

 

DOUNE THE RABBIT HOLE C.I.C.

Company number SC393275

MURRAY, Jamie Douglas

Incorporated on

10 February 2011

Company status

Dissolved

Dissolved on

22 September 2020

 

FESTIVAL BEVERAGE AND PROPERTY SERVICES LIMITED

Company number SC594737

MURRAY, Craig John

Incorporated on

18 April 2018

 

FDTRHF REALISATIONS LIMITED

Company number SC693771

MURRAY, Jamie Douglas

Incorporated on

29 March 2021

Company status

Liquidation

8 December 2022

 

Both Jamie and Craig Murray have the same correspondence address as 

674 Pollokshaws Road, Glasgow, Scotland, G41 2QE

This might be a coincidence, but what it looks like to me is they are folding the company to avoid paying the artists and crew who are awaiting payment from this year's event.

I'd be very weary about giving ticket money to this event, especially as they are using WeScanTickets for payment platform which means the Murray family get the payment direct and doesn't get held as such by your usual ticket agents to use for refunds if required after cancellation.

Nice detective work

[Comfy Bean]

On 12/14/2022 at 3:39 AM, Paul ™ said:

Something not right with what they are saying here.

The Murray family who ran the previous company FDTRHF REALISATIONS LIMITED which was ran by Jamie Murray, which have now filed for liquidation are still involved with this other company and the previous company too

 

DOUNE THE RABBIT HOLE C.I.C.

Company number SC393275

MURRAY, Jamie Douglas

Incorporated on

10 February 2011

Company status

Dissolved

Dissolved on

22 September 2020

 

FESTIVAL BEVERAGE AND PROPERTY SERVICES LIMITED

Company number SC594737

MURRAY, Craig John

Incorporated on

18 April 2018

 

FDTRHF REALISATIONS LIMITED

Company number SC693771

MURRAY, Jamie Douglas

Incorporated on

29 March 2021

Company status

Liquidation

8 December 2022

 

Both Jamie and Craig Murray have the same correspondence address as 

674 Pollokshaws Road, Glasgow, Scotland, G41 2QE

This might be a coincidence, but what it looks like to me is they are folding the company to avoid paying the artists and crew who are awaiting payment from this year's event.

I'd be very weary about giving ticket money to this event, especially as they are using WeScanTickets for payment platform which means the Murray family get the payment direct and doesn't get held as such by your usual ticket agents to use for refunds if required after cancellation.

Cracking wee festival but there were folk working at it this year who hadn’t been paid for previous years. Sad scenes but not surprising. 

[Paul ™]

This post is going down well .. 😄

https://www.facebook.com/118082584912857/posts/pfbid02dexEFCQnEH6G44pnpwS7mguB52Tg3cHF6xeV1jL9UeuY6DwgmTgcwRozEafafW7Al/

Please help our Artists & Crew!

 

Many of you will already know that Doune The Rabbit Hole festival did not sell enough tickets to make all its payments to artists & crew due to the turbulence created by the pandemic. We are making a plan to repay everyone what they’re owed, but we have exhausted all personal funds and other options to raise money to make immediate and necessary payments to the people who need it most, especially at this time of year. We appreciate that many of you have already paid for your festival experience, but some of you may have come as a guest or on a discounted ticket which you may feel you could top up. Please consider donating regardless. We do not aim to raise the total amount owed in this fundraiser, but if everyone who attended donated the cost of a night out at a gig, everyone would receive full payment by the New Year. Again, please consider donating, even a small amount will help our artists & crew. To be clear, this is part of a broader plan we are making to pay everyone.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Paul ™

[Neil]

At least they're trying to do something. Can't magic money out of the air. 

[Paul ™]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

At least they're trying to do something. Can't magic money out of the air. 

🤣

[zahidf]

Oh man Craig Murray is involved???

It’s reported that the festival was initially headed up by Jamie Murray, however with the newly announced shifting of responsibilities, it’ll now be run by his father, Craig Murray, who is described by The Herald as “a blogger and former diplomat who was jailed last year for contempt of court after he was found to have published material capable of identifying four of the women who accused Alex Salmond of sexual assault”. Jamie, too, is said to be the “Senior Project Manager” at Festival Beverage And Property Services Ltd.

 

 

[Paul ™]

Yup.

They have now deleted their 'fundraising' post.

Anyone putting money into this event must be mad, they will struggle to get a licence next year or find anyone willing to work it. 

[THEBOILERMAN]

I enquired about when the line up would be announced and recieved this:-

 

"I realise we're a tad behind compared to our usual though I can assure you we're working hard behind the scenes, and I've now been informed by our director that we'll be ready to make announcements on our line-up before the month is out. 

 

For now, we've begun opening up sections of our website, including our 2022 Gallery and our Family Activities sections. Please keep an eye out for announcements on our socials and mailing list in the near future. I thank you for your patience during this time. 

 

Cheers,

Lee"

[spudthemariner]

On 3/7/2023 at 1:15 PM, THEBOILERMAN said:

I enquired about when the line up would be announced and recieved this:-

 

"I realise we're a tad behind compared to our usual though I can assure you we're working hard behind the scenes, and I've now been informed by our director that we'll be ready to make announcements on our line-up before the month is out. 

 

For now, we've begun opening up sections of our website, including our 2022 Gallery and our Family Activities sections. Please keep an eye out for announcements on our socials and mailing list in the near future. I thank you for your patience during this time. 

 

Cheers,

Lee"

It'll be very interesting to see who (and what caliber of artist) will sign up to appearing. It was reported that the Musicians Union has had a meeting with the organizers, and have advised all artists to contact them (the MU) first, with a view to obtaining non-refundable deposits etc... There is also a question of whether the event will get a license from the council (they only scraped it last year by all accounts....)

We've got tickets, so we've kept the weekend free...we shall see I guess...

[Paul ™]

I think BECTU have already lodged joint formal proceedings to the local authority about some of it's members being due money, I'd be surprised if it gets a licence this year. 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Paul ™ said:

I think BECTU have already lodged joint formal proceedings to the local authority about some of it's members being due money, I'd be surprised if it gets a licence this year. 

who are BECTU?, and as far as i know (unless different in Scotland) nothing about a licence is dependent on the state of the bussinesses finances. they will want to know /believe that the business is capable of carrying out the licence conditions.

[Paul ™]

Bectu

DTRH have debts owed to the Scottish Government, Event Scotland, Creative Scotland as well as a load of other creditors which I believe also includes arrtists and crew. 

With multiple objections to the licence being granted for various reasons, it can be refused. 

I very much doubt they will get the necessary sign off to go ahead, no one is wanting to touch this event and will make getting that licence even harder than the scrape through they got last year.

 

Quote

SLEN -Statement on Doune the Rabbit Hole

Recently Scottish Live Events Network contacted Alan Govan about some of our members outstanding invoices from both this and last year's Doune The Rabbit Hole. In his response Alan assured us that he was intending to pay everybody, that they were just waiting on money being gifted to them and that they were holding off on advertising ticket sales for next year until the invoices for this year were paid. It was very similar to the emails everyone else had with a long list of excuses but no real time scale for making payment.

We now learn that the company has been liquidated, a new one has sprung up in its place and that early bird tickets are being advertised. BECTU has contacted Alan Govan about this move and is pursuing them for monies owed to members.

This is quite simply an insult to everyone who is owed money for this event. We would advise anyone who gets the notice of liquidation through to put in a claim, something is always better than nothing.

We have highlighted DTRH’s failure to pay its debts to Event Scotland, Creative Scotland, and the Scottish Government and are lobbying them to introduce more cohesive standards and communication across the events licensing system and for both Scot Gov and local authorities to be more aware of promoters' financial histories and their ability and willingness to pay their bills before granting them a licence. This proposal has been met with interest and we hope to move forward with this at the start of 2023. We are also lobbying Stirling Council not to grant any further licences to this event until all debts have been paid.

We will also be speaking to the local councils who gave out the licences this year to a number of events which have not paid their bills and pushing them to be more stringent in their decision making. We will also be putting in objections for any licence application that comes for an organiser who is known for not paying. If anyone has any information which they think might help either now or in the future please get in touch.

From just two promoters alone over two years we estimate that over a quarter of a million pounds has been removed from the supply chain because of production companies and artists not getting paid. Also a lot of people bought tickets to see bands which they did not get to see because of what we believe to be very shady business practices. It cannot be allowed to continue.

We would ask all suppliers, production companies, self employed etc. to consider very carefully before working with some of these organisers. If they haven't paid the previous companies they employed then exactly what assurances does anyone have that they would get paid. Make sure you get at least a 50% deposit at time of booking and the rest before the doors open. If they can’t pay you by then it’s very possible they won’t pay you at all. If any members are having problems getting paid, then Bectu has a monies owed service, where they will help chase members unpaid invoices and offer legal advice should it need to go to the small claims court.

BECTU also operate an “ask first” list for members which identifies Companies that have failed to meet their contractual obligations to members. Members should contact BECTU first for further info if they are offered work by anyone on the Ask First list.

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Paul ™

[Neil]

58 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

With multiple objections to the licence being granted for various reasons, it can be refused. 

if its the same licencing law as in England, " i don't like it" is not a valid objection.

[Neil]

you have to work hard to ensure the bills get paid, only geezer who dipped out on paying me was John McVicar (google him, kids!)

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

15 hours ago, Neil said:

you have to work hard to ensure the bills get paid, only geezer who dipped out on paying me was John McVicar (google him, kids!)

I remember him. The film of his life was the first 18 rated film that I saw - I was about 14 years old. I thought I'd get the knock back from the cinema cashier, but they just gave me the ticket, no problem. I really enjoyed watching that film.

 

[Neil]

38 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

I remember him. The film of his life was the first 18 rated film that I saw - I was about 14 years old. I thought I'd get the knock back from the cinema cashier, but they just gave me the ticket, no problem. I really enjoyed watching that film.

i got a 'friendly'  call from john after i pushed too hard to get an invoice paid.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

20 minutes ago, Neil said:

i got a 'friendly'  call from john after i pushed too hard to get an invoice paid.

Did he pay in the end? I'm guessing not.

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Did he pay in the end? I'm guessing not.

no, and i thought it best to let it go.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

42 minutes ago, Neil said:

no, and i thought it best to let it go.

I understand your logic.

If I recall correctly, he died a lonely man, living in a caravan. Maybe by then he wanted to be on his own though.