Doune The Rabbit Hole 23 - Liquidation Notice

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

I understand your logic.

If I recall correctly, he died a lonely man, living in a caravan. Maybe by then he wanted to be on his own though.

i wasn't aware that he'd died, so i had to check.

[Neil]

In 2002, John McVicar married Countess Valentina Artsrunik

the countess is an interesting character, with a life story worth reading. seems like the perfect match for mcvicar.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

 

One things for sure - You'll never see the Countess and Grayson Perry in the same room, at the same time;

 

 

 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

4 hours ago, Neil said:

In 2002, John McVicar married Countess Valentina Artsrunik

the countess is an interesting character, with a life story worth reading. seems like the perfect match for mcvicar.

I meant to say - I shall look into the Countess's life.

[Paul ™]

Doune The Rabbit Hole

Scottish Live Events Network sent an email to its members recently concerning a meeting that BECTU and the Musicians Union had with the organisers of Doune The Rabbit Hole Festival. You can read the email in its entirety here:

https://www.scottishliveeventsnetwork.co.uk/post/doune-the-rabbit-hole-festival

We understand the levels of frustration and distrust that many people are feeling concerning the festival and its organisers. We agree with you that the situation is not good in many ways. We do feel that this current plan is the only chance that anyone has of getting money back which is owed to them. We recommend people follow the suggested processes stated in the letter and we will do our best to advise and help anyone who has any specific questions concerning what is in it. 

Please feel free to contact us on Scittishliveeventsnetwork@gmail.com

 

If you have found the work of Scottish Live Events Network useful please consider joining us. The more members we have the more we can do to represent the industry. Go to https://bectu.org.uk/join/ and include SLEN in your job title to be placed directly into the branch.

 

https://www.scottishliveeventsnetwork.co.uk/post/doune-the-rabbit-hole-festival

[spudthemariner]

14 hours ago, Paul ™ said:

Doune The Rabbit Hole

Scottish Live Events Network sent an email to its members recently concerning a meeting that BECTU and the Musicians Union had with the organisers of Doune The Rabbit Hole Festival. You can read the email in its entirety here:

https://www.scottishliveeventsnetwork.co.uk/post/doune-the-rabbit-hole-festival

We understand the levels of frustration and distrust that many people are feeling concerning the festival and its organisers. We agree with you that the situation is not good in many ways. We do feel that this current plan is the only chance that anyone has of getting money back which is owed to them. We recommend people follow the suggested processes stated in the letter and we will do our best to advise and help anyone who has any specific questions concerning what is in it. 

Please feel free to contact us on Scittishliveeventsnetwork@gmail.com

 

If you have found the work of Scottish Live Events Network useful please consider joining us. The more members we have the more we can do to represent the industry. Go to https://bectu.org.uk/join/ and include SLEN in your job title to be placed directly into the branch.

 

https://www.scottishliveeventsnetwork.co.uk/post/doune-the-rabbit-hole-festival

Saw that last night. I assumed that they'd have to scale back in order to move forward (and I'm not against the idea). The way that they (tried) to go up a level, is reminiscent of how Electric Fields went under a few years back...

They (DTRH) really need to sort their coms out though. A formal public announcement on the plans would (imo) be far more effective than deleting folks comments on social media.... 

Hopefully the recovery plan works , they are able to pay those out of pocket, and the festival continues, as it was a really great event (if a little ramshackle at times). We shall see...

[Fnmentaluk]

Interesting lineup , not the depth of last year. 

[spudthemariner]

18 hours ago, Fnmentaluk said:

Interesting lineup , not the depth of last year. 

Assuming that it goes ahead, its a really decent start that ticks a lot of boxes for me. They are scaling it back to 5K, so they won't have te pulling power of (what the hoped to attract) last year. They just need to start shiftig tickets now....

[spudthemariner]

Fairly comprehensive statement from the organizers (from the Facebook page)! Seems to have gone down well with most...

STATEMENT

Now that the 2023 line up has been revealed, we would like to take this opportunity to address directly some of the issues, ongoing challenges and proposed solutions surrounding the very much-loved festival Doune the Rabbit Hole. In particular, the last event in 2022. This statement will fully disclose our current situation and offers an opportunity to help support us in our journey to recovery.

We have also been made aware of a lot of misinformation, unfounded allegations and rumours floating around regarding last year's event. We would like to set the record straight in the interests of transparency for anyone who may be hearing unfounded claims or to anyone who has been unknowingly repeating them.

DOES DOUNE THE RABBIT HOLE OWE SOME ARTISTS/SUPPLIERS/CREW MONEY?

It is true that the event made a loss last year and it is also true that some artists, suppliers and crew have yet to be paid in full. DTRH is doing everything it can to clear any outstanding bills and apologise wholeheartedly for the inconvenience the delays have caused to the people affected. It is worth pointing out, however, that last year Doune paid (figures are approximate) £375,000 to artists, £192,000 to crew and £720,000 to suppliers and we still intend to repay those who have outstanding amounts, so to say no artists or crew got paid is demonstrably untrue on massive scale. Recently, DTRH proposed a plan to BECTU and the Musicians Union to make repayments to anyone affected as well as a vow to pay any artists and crew in advance of this year's festival.

WHY DID YOU LOSE MONEY IN 2022?

Having been forced to postpone the festival in 2020, and then again at the very last minute in 2021, the 2022 edition was already financially challenging. After lobbying the Scottish government intensely for support to no avail (for and alongside the entire sector utilising official channels with government ministers and campaign groups), DTRH attempted to chase insurmountable losses by increasing the scale of the event and majorly enhancing the programme with the hopes of increased footfall. Previous experience From DTRH shows that around 20% of customers pay on the door over the weekend and don't purchase in advance, a further 20% of the audience purchase online two weeks before the event and a further 20% purchase four weeks before that. So that's historically, 60% of Festival goers in the last 6 weeks and 40% in the last 4 weeks before an event.

That has been the case for every single year of the event, with the exception of 2017 when there was a disastrous weather forecast for the weekend. Despite a great weather forecast in 2022, it turned out that this was not an ordinary year and sales expectations evolved in a very different way.

This was the first year of the event's return since the pandemic and the first year since Brexit.

Both of those issues, combined with the wildly increasing cost of fuel, gas and electricity and the impact of the cost of living crisis hitting people hard in July last year meant that DTRH only sold about 5% of its tickets in the last six weeks, 10% in the last 4, and virtually nothing on the gate at all while facing huge cost increases of its own. This meant that around 40% of all DTRH's bills could not be paid. On a total event budget of £2.8m, that means the event was down more than £1.1m and because this happened so close to the event, there was very little that could be done about it. DTRH is not a corporate event with deep pockets, it is an independent, grassroots festival. However, through the personal funds of the event's owner, as well as their friends and family's support, DTRH was able to reduce that to just over £800k. So the owner of the event lost more than £300k on DTRH. On a personal level, that included the entire life savings of two people - one person's entire pension and retirement fund, and a family’s deposit for a house. There is nothing less true to say than that these people took money from the event, are behaving like a corporation, or holding back any money from people who are owed it. That is the most malicious and hurtful piece of speculation we have seen. The owner of the event is poorer as a result of this situation, as well as horrified and ashamed. This is a community festival, not a commercial festival. The aim is not to make money. The owner and frankly, guardian angel of the event over the years, has never taken one penny out as dividend, fee, salary, or expenses etc, and has put in a large six figure sum to keep it going. This speculation has no constructive basis and is utterly devastating for those who have already lost so much yet continue to work tirelessly to resolve the situation in every possible way.

After realising the event owed £800k+, DTRH could have shut down meaning nobody owed money would get paid. Instead, it has been agreed to continue running the event meaning debts can be paid off based on any future profits from the event over a number of years. This is clearly not an ideal situation, and this is not what anybody wanted as their first choice, but DTRH has tried every possible angle to find a solution that would mean the event could pay people back sooner. This was a loss so significant the festival was nearly gone forever. Should DTRH not run as planned in 2023, any ability for anyone to get any of the money they are owed is lost. The only solution is to keep this much loved festival going and pay people back from future profits. We acknowledge that repayments will be on a very late basis, for which we are obviously incredibly sorry, but by working together constructively we can secure the best route to resolution. All festivals, gig venues and nightclubs are under threat and face uniquely challenging circumstances in the post pandemic and post Brexit environment - and we all need your help - now more than ever.

Like all festivals, DTRH is bound to have it's critics, but they are outnumbered by the love and support of thousands who come along every year and enjoy the brilliant artists that we book, who of course deserve proper payment. The number of performers and crew who are up for getting involved this year has been a joy to behold and part of the reason that we never gave up. Please remember that a random person leaving a negative comment on social media does not speak for the thousands of artists, crew members and festival-goers who have grown to love the festival and helped build it over the years.

ARE YOU BLOCKING PEOPLE OR DELETING COMMENTS?

The fact is that many of the allegations DTRH is facing require detailed, considered responses. Where the event's detractors can, without any fear of consequence, basically accuse us of whatever they want without needing to evidence it at any time of day or night, putting undue pressure on our small team. There has been a string of false accusations that range from bad information to trolling for the sake of it. Sometimes these claims are made from people in good faith who are repeating something they read or heard. If anyone has any genuine questions then please feel free to message the page or email us, but the comments thread will no longer be a place to derail the 2023 event which we are working hard to create in some incredibly challenging circumstances as it is, without replying to people who have no connection to the event and nothing but ill-will to spread.

Every creditor has been contacted directly, if you are a creditor and feel like you haven't been kept in the loop sufficiently then please contact us directly.

Our mission is to pay our debts and sustain a much loved music festival, because we believe such things should exist, even if they are very challenging and expensive things to bring to fruition, and sustaining a festival means selling tickets. It is already public knowledge that the 2022 event did not break even and that this resulted in a proportion of artists, suppliers and crew not being paid. In the events sector this is sadly not an unprecedented scenario. However, whilst many companies would take full advantage of their limited liability and simply walk away, we have pledged to sustain the event and pay future proceeds so that everyone can receive what they are owed. And we hope you agree that late is better than never. Given our priorities we are sure you can understand our motivations for utilising our social media accounts to best effect at this time.

DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH PLAYGROUND FESTIVAL?

This one is easy. DTRH has never had any association whatsoever with Playground festival.

HAVE PUBLIC FUNDS FROM CREATIVE SCOTLAND / EVENT SCOTLAND BEEN STOLEN OR MISUSED?

All of the funding from these organisations reached its intended recipients, including disabled artists, crew and suppliers. It is important to understand that DTRH received a relatively small amount of funding from Creative Scotland and Event Scotland towards delivering the festival. Considering the size and scale of the event, its cultural and wider economic impact, and the fact that both funding organisations were entirely aware of the challenges DTRH faced financially going into the event, we refute all and any implied criticism of the management of these funds.

IN CLOSING

We have released this information in good faith and in the interests of dispelling misinformation and negativity surrounding our actions to date. We hope that by stating our case to you so clearly that you will now be better placed to reach your own positive conclusions and understand and support our tireless efforts to resolve outstanding issues and build stronger foundations for the festival to sustain it well into the future.

We are genuinely excited to be back for 2023, and very much look forward to welcoming our fantastic audiences and artists back to celebrate some more of the very best of performances and activities in the summer of 2023. We hope to help create a raft of wonderful new memories for all those who haven’t yet tasted the DTRH magic – and build fresh and lasting memories for our loyal and brilliant existing audience base – here’s to a fantastic DTRH 2023!

Join us in the scenic Cardross estate this July alongside Spiritualized, Thurston Moore Group, Alabama 3, Black Grape, Asian Dub Foundation, Steve Mason, The Langan Band, Ross Ainslie & Ali Hutton Trio, Goldie Lookin Chain & many more by clicking here : http://dounetherabbithole.co.uk/tickets

[Paul ™]

DTRH Statement 4th June

We have further information which we think is important to share with our members and the wider public. If you haven't read our previous statements please head to our website here to get some background. https://www.scottishliveeventsnetwork.co.uk/dtrh

[For those without time to read the whole post, key information is BECTU and SLEN are actively now advising against working for, going to, or supporting DTRH for a multitude of reasons listed in detail below, please feel free to share this post to colleagues, friends and others.]

When the organisers contacted our branch in December 2022 they claimed that no one was owed any money from any of the festivals previous to 2022. We already knew that this was not true. When it was pointed out to them that at least one company was owed thousands of pounds from Festival and Beverage (the company now back running this year's festival) the response was “oh yes - except for them there is no-one else”. They also promised to contact that company and sort out payment terms. The company received two emails with all the usual excuses of why they could not pay. Then no response. A further email eventually was responded to with more excuses. That company is now going to seek redress through legal means. We have also found other companies that are owed from multiple previous festivals. It is disappointing that  the organisers were willing to mislead us in our very first conversation. Sadly this attitude of continual non payment followed by excuses and empty promises seems to be the business model they follow.

When BECTU and Musicians Union officials met with organisers in march they were told ticket sales were at 2000 and that the break even figure was 4000 with a capacity of about 5000 in total. We believe that those 2000 sales will have brought in at least £400,000. We were also told that any company that agreed to work this year would have their money up front. This clearly has not happened and with the amount of money that has been brought in so far from ticket sales we see no reason production companies should have at least been confirmed and paid by now. We know of a number of companies enquiring about this directly with the organisers and are yet to get any proper answers or any real payment plans.

Also at this meeting the union officials were told that DTRH would allow SLEN reps would be able to do safety and wellbeing visits to the site. This offer has now been rescinded.

Recently DTRH posted adverts for volunteers to help at the festival. To do so volunteers need to pay a deposit to the festival to ensure that they complete their volunteer roles. Other unions have already written about their disagreement with such a system which is not an unusual thing to happen. We do not agree with this practice However in many cases the money is held safely and securely outside of the festival organisers. In the case of Glastonbury it is Oxfam who holds the money. For DTRH the money is being held in a company called Volunteer Heros(sic). This company was set up in January 2023 by one of the people running the volunteers for the festival.  Organisers have claimed that this provides an “unconnected” place to store the money. We completely disagree that this company is unconnected.

The Scottish Volunteer Charter states that volunteering is a “choice undertaken of one’s own free will and a choice not motivated for financial gain or for a wage or salary” and that if there is any “any compulsion, threat of sanctions or force, then any such activity is not volunteering”. We believe both of these points are being ignored in the demanding of a deposit. 

We also have serious concerns about the roles the volunteers are being asked to fill. In the advert DTRH are asking for people to build fences, construct marquees, work in catering, and build roads. Also during the festival to work behind bars, stewarding, park cars and to fulfil technical backstage roles. All of these jobs require specific training, insurance and PPE amongst other requirements and break many of the other volunteer charter statements concerning using volunteers to undercut pay and conditions of service, to reduce contract costs or to bypass minimum wage legislation. Using volunteers in safety critical roles is something that the organisers told officials at the March meeting that they would not do this year. Clearly they have changed their minds. 

BECTU official Paul McManus contacted DTRH to discuss what we perceive as an increase in the use of volunteers since last year and our safety concerns. The response can only be described as a vitriolic rant, claiming our stance was “nonsensical” and that we need to “do some research and frankly wake up and realise we would have to target the entire industry”. We are aware this practice takes place across industry and this is something we intend to address. He also claimed that this is “far from exploitative or morally indefensible” and that our organisation is “clearly completely ignorant of what has been standard practice for years”. Bectu will be checking with HMRC and Scot Gov to see who is correct.

We are well aware of the issues onsite last year. Catering was inedible and people refused to eat it. There was only one water outlet for much of the build due to the supply being tapped from a Scottish Water outlet without the company's knowledge or permission. One of the SLEN committee was on site with a headline band (who have still not been paid) and saw a number of H&S concerns including heavy plant moving across public areas with no escort while the festival was open. DTRH claimed that these issues were down to the lack of professionalism and ability of the production team they brought in - something we completely refute as we know many of the people working there. They worked under extreme pressure and were not supported by the organisers in any way. 

We also know that the capacity of the festival was cut a number of days before the show as a condition of DTRH receiving a licence due to safety concerns of the emergency services. 

The organisers have refused to answer our questions on how ticket sales are going or about the upfront payments for people agreeing to work the festival. In the meeting in March The organisers assured us that if the festival was not going to at least break even this year then they would not hold it. Considering all the other promises and assurances that we have had which have been broken or not followed through we can only doubt this promise as well.

At this point we are now advising members, non members and artists to avoid this festival. We would call on any acts who have agreed to play to seriously consider whether they want to play at a festival which owes so much money. The organisers seem to be making as many excuses as possible to not even start paying people back or holding good on their promise of upfront payment. Many acts from last year are owed tens of thousands of pounds and ultimately made a loss playing the festival due to having to pay their crew etc. 

No one wants to see a festival not happen. We work in this industry to provide entertainment and excitement for as many people as possible. It saddens us that we feel the need to advise people not to work at Doune The Rabbit Hole. But with total debts from last year of over £800,000 which we now do not believe the organisers will be able to pay back however much they claim they want to, we feel we have no choice. 

In an article on the STV website in March the organisers said that the financial failure of Doune The Rabbit Hole 2022 was their fault. SInce they have taken moral responsibility for the massive debts they incurred in 2022, maybe they should take financial responsibility as well and dip into their own pockets to repay the debts this mismanagement has caused. 

If you have found the work of Scottish Live Events Network useful please consider joining us. The more members we have the more we can do to represent the industry. Go to https://bectu.org.uk/join/  and include SLEN in your job title to be placed directly into the branch.

[spudthemariner]

Interesting and depressing all at the same time...

We bought tickets having been previously (pre-pandemic) and before we became aware of the event's 'difficulties'.

We've kept the weekend clear in the hope that the event goes forward, although with a healthy degree of skepticism, and have noted the agree of adverts on the various social media platforms. Essentially we suspect that the ticket sales are not exactly flying (despite a decent lineup announcement). 

We also spoke to a number of traders at Knockengorroch the other week (fantastic weekend by the way). Many have booked pitches and scheduled time out of their calendars for the event...most also prior to hearing about, or at least the full extent of, the financial difficulties. 

All of which, (assuming that the event even goes ahead of course), puts us as ticket holders in an awkward position. Do we not attend as a matter of principle, and deny artists / traders past and present any chance of earnings / recouping losses. Or, do we attend, potentially only to help to line the organisers pockets, with no eventually of those out of pocket to recoup...?

Hmm.....

From reading the above, I'm thinking its more and more likely that the event will be cancelled anyway (as is our suspicion in any case), but even so....

[sheffinghell]

They are currently offering discounted tickets via TfG, presumably to shift a few extra to make it more viable

[gizmoman]

7 hours ago, sheffinghell said:

They are currently offering discounted tickets via TfG, presumably to shift a few extra to make it more viable

Ticket link on main website is dead, what is TfG? Suspect there is very little chance this festival will happen.

[sheffinghell]

6 hours ago, gizmoman said:

Ticket link on main website is dead, what is TfG? Suspect there is very little chance this festival will happen.

Tickets for Good. A site offering free and discounted tickets for NHS staff. As far as I know, they've only recently been listed on there. I think it was 25-30%off.

[zahidf]

Yup cancelled again. Bands not paid again

[zahidf]

 

 

[gizmoman]

https://www.dounetherabbithole.co.uk/blog/doune-the-rabbit-hole-cancelled

A long statement pretty much blaming the BECTU posts for their problems, the fact is their current business model of paying off old debts accrued by putting on unprofitable festivals by raising excess profits on future festivals was never going to work, if it is that easy to run a profitable festival why weren't they doing it before? It was pretty much a ponzi scheme. Can't blame BECTU for seeing it for what it was.

[Paul ™]

Oh what a f**king surprise, and no one automatically getting a refund either.... 

[spudthemariner]

Aye, a complete shitshow all round. No automatic refunds, but depending on your bank, most are able to get their money back (you obviously need to contact them and raise a charge back / dispute). Looking like we'll get ours back so at least all is not lost.

Aside from dodgy buisness practice, it does raise the question as to why no one is able to to keep a family friendly mid-sized festival in Scotland. In the last few years, we've lost Electric Fields, Loopalu, and a bit further back Wickerman (not to mention RockNess). There would seem to be a demand (I think), but for whatever reason....

A real shame, as it was a cool wee festi. And if not for the utter C@ck W@mbles that ran it, could have become a serious contender...meh!

[SweepingTheNation]

 

[chickenfire]

On 6/22/2023 at 4:25 PM, spudthemariner said:

Aside from dodgy buisness practice, it does raise the question as to why no one is able to to keep a family friendly mid-sized festival in Scotland. In the last few years, we've lost Electric Fields, Loopalu, and a bit further back Wickerman (not to mention RockNess). There would seem to be a demand (I think), but for whatever reason....

The lack of ticket sales for Connect, based in the second biggest city with great transport links, seems to suggest there isn't a big enough demand for "smaller" festivals in Scotland. It's a real shame but seems to be a reality.