Disposable vapes ban

[MilkyJoe]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

It's like being stood/sat next to someone who hasn't showered for a week. They stink, it's unpleasant. Obviously we shouldn't make showering compulsory either, but it's worth point out that's how they come across.

We should absolutely make showering compulsory!😁

[A Particular Grey Chihuahu]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Thanks for the AI but the answer to my question was no, you haven't got the stats on deaths caused by second hand smoke in the open air. 

 

I can't be bothered with this anymore, I've said all along that I barely smoke and i strongly disagree with exposing people to second hand smoke, especially children.  However, I maintain that you're more at risk from traffic and other pollutants than walking past someone having a cigarette in the open air.

 

Have a good day. 

 

 

Well, like I said, why should I search for stats with irrelevant 'plucked out of the air' caveats (designed as a place for you to bunker down and fool yourself into thinking you're still right), which would be impossible to obtain (because you'd have to take weather, ambience, etc into account). Any argument you have now needs to be taken to medical professionals and researchers who have spent lifetimes looking into second hand smoke. You have a good day too 👍

[stuie]

30 minutes ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

 

Well, like I said, why should I search for stats with irrelevant 'plucked out of the air' caveats (designed as a place for you to bunker down and fool yourself into thinking you're still right), which would be impossible to obtain (because you'd have to take weather, ambience, etc into account). Any argument you have now needs to be taken to medical professionals and researchers who have spent lifetimes looking into second hand smoke. You have a good day too 👍

 

I'll stick it on my to-do list. 

[Alvoram]

2 hours ago, DeanoL said:

You probably wouldn't enjoy having perfume sprayed right next to you on a regular basis by other people. Nor would I.

I don't think smoking and vaping should be banned, but the attitude you get with some people of "I can't possibly understand what people's problem is" is equally baffling to me. It's also one of those things where the vapor could have just been made odourless but wasn't, so feels weirdly aggressive.

 

It's like being stood/sat next to someone who hasn't showered for a week. They stink, it's unpleasant. Obviously we shouldn't make showering compulsory either, but it's worth point out that's how they come across.

We went from too much perfume to no showers so quickly. 🙈🤣

Back on topic though, I agree, some people's attitude to it all does stink (pun intended.) There's a level of common sense and common decency, that can, and should, be shown. Move away from children, even in a crowd this is possible, just move to the other side of your own group, if you vape, don't blow out big clouds, it doesn't make you look big, and we all know it's unnecessary. Blow smoke / vapor upwards so that it dissipates above the crowd. Lots of small things that can be done, at no expense or effort, to make others a little more comfortable. 

I've always used Menthol, which is all but odourless. It possibly has the faintest, mint like, smell to sensitive folks, but there's no way anybody is smelling it outdoors. I personally don't get the whole fruity flavoured thing, and why people vape them, as you'd never get fruit flavoured ciggies. That being said, I've never once found the smell of those sweet vapes offensive in any way shape or form, they smell nice. Even if that smell isn't 'to your taste' it's hardly offensive enough to whinge about. 

I hate to keep beating the same analogies, but I think there's more at play here, a subconscious thing going on. "Smell is coming from vape, vaping is like smoking, smoking bad, smell bad" regardless of what the fragrance actually is. I just can't imagine anybody complaining about those same smells in any other setting. When they walk into a bakers for example, remembering that those smells are produced by normal, everyday, food flavourings. 

[Crazyfool01]

dont mind flavoured vapes as long as its not right in face ... less keen on cigarettes but in the open air its really barely ever an issue it dissipates so quickly ... can easily step a few paces away . Never had an issue with it in my years at Glastonbury 

[stuie]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

dont mind flavoured vapes as long as its not right in face ... less keen on cigarettes but in the open air its really barely ever an issue it dissipates so quickly ... can easily step a few paces away . Never had an issue with it in my years at Glastonbury 

 

That's a very rational and normal response! 

Glad you've survived as many Glastonbury's as you have 😂

[DeanoL]

29 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

We went from too much perfume to no showers so quickly. 🙈🤣

Back on topic though, I agree, some people's attitude to it all does stink (pun intended.) There's a level of common sense and common decency, that can, and should, be shown. Move away from children, even in a crowd this is possible, just move to the other side of your own group, if you vape, don't blow out big clouds, it doesn't make you look big, and we all know it's unnecessary. Blow smoke / vapor upwards so that it dissipates above the crowd. Lots of small things that can be done, at no expense or effort, to make others a little more comfortable. 

I've always used Menthol, which is all but odourless. It possibly has the faintest, mint like, smell to sensitive folks, but there's no way anybody is smelling it outdoors. I personally don't get the whole fruity flavoured thing, and why people vape them, as you'd never get fruit flavoured ciggies. That being said, I've never once found the smell of those sweet vapes offensive in any way shape or form, they smell nice. Even if that smell isn't 'to your taste' it's hardly offensive enough to whinge about. 

I hate to keep beating the same analogies, but I think there's more at play here, a subconscious thing going on. "Smell is coming from vape, vaping is like smoking, smoking bad, smell bad" regardless of what the fragrance actually is. I just can't imagine anybody complaining about those same smells in any other setting. When they walk into a bakers for example, remembering that those smells are produced by normal, everyday, food flavourings. 

People have different tastes and tolerances in smells. For years smokers were telling us they liked the smell of tobacco! Equally I'd never set foot in Lush as it smells awful, but clearly they pump that smell out as it pulls people in. I suspect there are some that don't like the bakery smell either. The difference of course is that people opt to walk into those smells, rather than having them forced onto them.

 

Like I say, try actively blowing any smell in anyone's face in any other context and you're going to get people reacting poorly, whether or not the smell is "nice". 

 

It's not that people link it to smoking and smoking is bad. It's that people think it was crazy we tolerated smoking for so long, and vaping and smoking remain the only situations where it's publicly acceptable for a person to just start pumping out strong scents into the air around them.

 

As you say some people are more considerate than others, and please don't take this as an attack. Like I say, despite my dislike, I don't think they should be banned either. But if you take a step back, it's really odd that it's considered socially acceptable at all.

[MilkyJoe]

1 hour ago, Alvoram said:

I personally don't get the whole fruity flavoured thing, and why people vape them, as you'd never get fruit flavoured ciggies. That being said, I've never once found the smell of those sweet vapes offensive in any way shape or form, they smell nice. Even if that smell isn't 'to your taste' it's hardly offensive enough to whinge about. 

You actually do. Widely available in the Middle East they are generally the crushball filter type cigarettes. Usually menthol but you get berry ones everywhere too. I've also seen vanilla rolling tobacco in South Africa.

 

If we're talking offensive smells though, don't get me started on the way we all get herded through the duty free at the airports with no way to avoid, the perfume is frequently overpowering and I quite often have to cover my mouth and nose when walking through.

[homesick]

20 hours ago, A Particular Grey Chihuahu said:

 

No. Who said that? Because it wasn't me. It takes years of being around disrespectful a-holes for that to happen. But why would you be one of those a-holes in life? Many people have died and will die from second hand smoking. It would be strange to deny that. It's an accumulation thing.

 

 

My opinion is that I don't care if someone chooses to do something that harms only themselves (I'll even forget all the tax we have to pay for their inevitable treatments).  And I've never been to the stone circle. Don't know what you're on about with that one.

Well, the illegal drugs trade harms many, many people other than those consuming them. Most notably those involved in the production/smuggling/selling of them…and that’s before we even get on to the cost to society and the taxpayer that you’re so deeply concerned about
 

Actually, talking about having to pay for treatments…I hope you don’t ever drink alcohol, wouldn’t want to be having to fork out for your liver transplant 

[Johnnyseven]

3 hours ago, Crazyfool01 said:

can easily step a few paces away

 

Sage advice

[Skip997]

This is quite possibly the most insane thread ever in efests

[stuie]

15 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

This is quite possibly the most insane thread ever in efests

That's quite some accolade! 

 

 

[SticklinchJoe]

16 hours ago, homesick said:

Well, the illegal drugs trade harms many, many people other than those consuming them. Most notably those involved in the production/smuggling/selling of them…and that’s before we even get on to the cost to society and the taxpayer that you’re so deeply concerned about
 

Actually, talking about having to pay for treatments…I hope you don’t ever drink alcohol, wouldn’t want to be having to fork out for your liver transplant 

 

The only defence seems to be deflecting to something else that is also bad. That isn't a defence, really.

[A Particular Grey Chihuahu]

18 hours ago, homesick said:

Well, the illegal drugs trade harms many, many people other than those consuming them. Most notably those involved in the production/smuggling/selling of them…and that’s before we even get on to the cost to society and the taxpayer that you’re so deeply concerned about
 

Actually, talking about having to pay for treatments…I hope you don’t ever drink alcohol, wouldn’t want to be having to fork out for your liver transplant 

 

I'll let you have an illegal drugs debate with someone else, because it's nothing to do with any conversation I've been having.

 

And I'm a pretty healthy guy, thanks. I wish good health to everyone here, too. 

[belfast]

Don't really care for anyone smoking or vaping outdoors to be honest. 

 

It's outdoors. Where else can they realistically go?

 

If you're massively OTT about any fumes getting into your system as some seem to be in this thread I'd recommend never leaving your house.

 

It's common sense to not smoke near children but it's also common sense to move your child from the fumes if you're that concerned. You're also bringing your child to fields full of thousands of randomers and your main concern is a bit of smoke being inhaled every now and again?

Edited November 14 by belfast

[DeanoL]

3 hours ago, belfast said:

Don't really care for anyone smoking or vaping outdoors to be honest. 

 

It's outdoors. Where else can they realistically go?

 

You already said it: their house. For smoking at least that's the direction we are going in, and it's going to get easier as the ban on purchasing comes in.

I'm not particularly fussed, but smokers, vapers and cars are the things we tolerate pumping out unpleasant stuff in places people have to go (oh and duty free, as someone else said!) - how long that will last as a social norm, as they slowly stop selling to younger people, will be interesting to see. Especially as petrol cars start going away too.

[CharlotteB]

2 hours ago, DeanoL said:

You already said it: their house. For smoking at least that's the direction we are going in, and it's going to get easier as the ban on purchasing comes in.

I'm not particularly fussed, but smokers, vapers and cars are the things we tolerate pumping out unpleasant stuff in places people have to go (oh and duty free, as someone else said!) - how long that will last as a social norm, as they slowly stop selling to younger people, will be interesting to see. Especially as petrol cars start going away too.

 

I feel like it has already left the realms of the social norm, just because it's so anti-social. The people have spoken on this one. It'll be nicely phased out completely over a couple of generations, hopefully.

[Skip997]

13 minutes ago, CharlotteB said:

 

I feel like it has already left the realms of the social norm, just because it's so anti-social. 

As is alcohol, any chance it will also disappear?

[CharlotteB]

3 hours ago, Skip997 said:

As is alcohol, any chance it will also disappear?

 

You think alcohol is anti-social? Bit strange...

 

But no, that won't disappear because there isn't masses of legislation coming in to get rid of it. 

[Skip997]

Just now, CharlotteB said:

 

You think alcohol is anti-social? Bit strange...

It’s always drunken people who cause me the most stress at festivals 

[Alvoram]

12 minutes ago, CharlotteB said:

 

You think alcohol is anti-social? Bit strange...

 

But no, that won't disappear because there isn't masses of legislation coming in to get rid of it. 

Yet, it starts with one freedom... 

[clasher]

55 minutes ago, CharlotteB said:

 

You think alcohol is anti-social? Bit strange...

 

You think smoking is anti-social? Bit strange...

[Crazyfool01]

Chill out guys … time for a beer 🍺 or a cigarette 

[stuie]

3 hours ago, CharlotteB said:

You think alcohol is anti-social? Bit strange...

 

You think smoking is anti-social because you don't like it. 

 

3 hours ago, CharlotteB said:

But no, that won't disappear because there isn't masses of legislation coming in to get rid of it. 

 

There should be - alcohol is the most accessible damaging drug that there is.  It's seen as socially acceptable but causes many more problems than smoking ever has. Not just health - social, criminal, domestic abuse, fighting, assaults, child neglect etc. 

[mph]

Can this thread be moved to discussions ?

 

The relevance to Glastonbury has long gone