2025 R&L Festival

[Andre91]

7 hours ago, Benj said:

 

Well lets have a look at whos booked at the mo

Doja cat is doing 3 nights

Killers 8 (amazingly)

Noah Kahan 2

Chris Stapleton 2 (to fuel the country fire again)
Nick Cave 2
Cigarettes After Sex 2
Sleep Token 5

Slipknot 2
Billie Eilish 8

There are lots of acts doing just the 1, they're local, perennial tourer types though, James, Snow Patrol etc...

I think 2 nights at the o2 is pretty much par for a decent sized artist these days. To be honest, given they've not been to the UK in a while and seeing what others are doing, 2 nights may even be a little lame.

I think Twenty One Pilots could deffo top a night at Reading, I think they'd have a v solid second though and, as you say, no chance they book them in the same year as they tour a load of sheds in city centers.

Are they a bigger draw now when they were second headliner in 2018 or whenever it was?


 

All acts who would headline R&L if they played. The others don’t fit the festival. 
 

It’s not just 2 nights at the O2, it’s essentially 100k in total with the other UK dates. If you look at those numbers and think that’s lame, that’s insane. Any promoter will look at that and see a headliner, especially when it’s an act relevant to the festival audience who are popular in the main stream. Hell, even the bookers of Download, who have been notoriously stringent with who they promote to headliner status, have said in various interviews over the last few years that they see selling out 2 nights at the O2 the mark of a headliner. 
 

Also, Sleep Token are doing 2 nights at the O2. I don’t know where you’ve got 5 from. Their tour selling like it has is absolutely nuts. Around 120k. They sub headlined the FR tent not even a year ago. They’re 100% a headliner now but they will headline DL, not R&L. They’re a poppier band for metal heads, not a more metally band for pop fans. I think that’s a massive myth. The people going to Sleep Token are also into other heavier bands, not pop you hear on Radio 1. 

[northernangel]

8 hours ago, p0sterb0y said:

QOTSA, Central Cee, MGK, Skepta, Yungblud, Capaldi and maybe Florence and the machine

 

Id personally go for...

Friday: Noah Kahan + Chase and Status

Saturday: Dua Lipa

Sunday: Foo Fighters 

 

That's not a bad stab either. Myself personally do not think Dua Lipa us a huge massive juggernaut that others do. She's headline level but I don't envisage her selling tickets a rate if some bugger one's.

[foolee]

Bring Me The Horizon - Dua Lipa - Foo Fighters

Tyler, The Creator - Courteeners - Machine Gun Kelly

 

Too expensive?

[northernangel]

54 minutes ago, foolee said:

Bring Me The Horizon - Dua Lipa - Foo Fighters

Tyler, The Creator - Courteeners - Machine Gun Kelly

 

Too expensive?

I don't think wo but it's mad how with this, you could replace all of the second line with other options as ive no interest, you could replace BMTH and I still wouldn't attend or it would have to be really good. But put that same lineup at Glastonbury and I wouldn't question chucking should I should my ticket back in.

[Benj]

3 hours ago, Andre91 said:

All acts who would headline R&L if they played. The others don’t fit the festival. 
 

It’s not just 2 nights at the O2, it’s essentially 100k in total with the other UK dates. If you look at those numbers and think that’s lame, that’s insane. Any promoter will look at that and see a headliner, especially when it’s an act relevant to the festival audience who are popular in the main stream. Hell, even the bookers of Download, who have been notoriously stringent with who they promote to headliner status, have said in various interviews over the last few years that they see selling out 2 nights at the O2 the mark of a headliner. 
 

Also, Sleep Token are doing 2 nights at the O2. I don’t know where you’ve got 5 from. Their tour selling like it has is absolutely nuts. Around 120k. They sub headlined the FR tent not even a year ago. They’re 100% a headliner now but they will headline DL, not R&L. They’re a poppier band for metal heads, not a more metally band for pop fans. I think that’s a massive myth. The people going to Sleep Token are also into other heavier bands, not pop you hear on Radio 1. 

I literally said they could headline but perhaps not on their own…esp after doing a massive tour

 

In a world where Killers and Eilish can play a week in the O2 and not sell out days at Reading, Twenty One Pilots are going to struggle to attract people after a massive tour. 
 

Maybe the new reality is that the festival will simply never sell out again in the current climate, with so much general touring and festival competition.

 

Personally I’d love it if they spent less on massive names and offered a stacked, diverse bill underneath. Again though it doesn’t seem it’s what people want. 

 

Re Sleep token it states they’re playing 29/11-3/12. Looks like they had to sneak in their extra date around Childish Gambino getting 2 night in in between.

 

 

[Benj]

2 hours ago, northernangel said:

 

That's not a bad stab either. Myself personally do not think Dua Lipa us a huge massive juggernaut that others do. She's headline level but I don't envisage her selling tickets a rate if some bugger one's.

I think she’d be a good shout to bring in a certain demographic that are otherwise probably not well catered for at the festival.

 

I think this is the problem the festival has now though. Who’s paying 400+ to see Dua Lipa with 2 other days catering to acts they have little interest in.

 

While a whole raft of attendees will have little interest in Dua Lipa and certainly not other acts like her, with once available alternative options cut to the bone.

 

V festival ultimately died going after a crowd who weren’t actually interested in festivals, just names. They lost their core attendee chasing a new crowd and then that new crowd realised it was better seeing Justin Bieber on the O2 than camping in the rain in a field.

 

Lets face it, Reading isn’t a nice ‘festival’ the camping has in general always sucked, unless you’re not all that worried about hygiene, being kept up all night or being the person keeping people up all night.

 

Now excuse me if I get a little to Chad888ish here but the average Dua Lipa fan is not someone who’ll be coming back next year to see Tyler the creator, Twenty One Pilots and Foo Fighters. They’re not the type of person who’ll enjoy Reading as a festival, they will unlikely ever be back.

 

As per my previous post, I think the festival may simply be done as a 90,000 selling juggernaut. There is too much competition, too many artists are doing huge tours.

 

What it needs to do is somehow try to establish that loyal core it once had, while still attracting the youth element, which has so much more choice than it did 10 years ago.
 

No idea how it can do it. Having Dua Lipa headline vs a dance act on the Chevron, with only 4 stages all day is not going to do it, for sure

[Andre91]

I’d be happy if they binned off booking pop artists like Dua Lipa tbh because, as you say, they aren’t attracting people who will come back year on year. 

[Benj]

1 hour ago, Andre91 said:

I’d be happy if they binned off booking pop artists like Dua Lipa tbh because, as you say, they aren’t attracting people who will come back year on year. 

And it seems they’re not even attracting people now.

 

The change over the past 5 years absolutely reeks of V festival. 
 

They changed the format of the festival, they changed the demographic they’re targeting and lo and behold sales have dropped markedly

 

Id love to know bas the Saturday, which has a v strong, exclusive pair of headliners, how the other days have done.

 

People have had a chance to see Blink, people have chances to see Gallagher and Catfish outside of a festival this year, Gerry Cinnamon has less Spotify listeners than Wolf Alice

 

The ‘festival’ itself is simply now a poor value proposition. There’s no choice, if you don’t want to see the few names scheduled, there’s nothing else to do. We’re down to 4 stages, the camping experience sucks for most.

 

It’s June now. Is there only going to be 7 main stage acts?!

 

Why are we paying 400 quid for this 😂?

 

 

[northernangel]

5 hours ago, Benj said:

I think she’d be a good shout to bring in a certain demographic that are otherwise probably not well catered for at the festival.

 

I think this is the problem the festival has now though. Who’s paying 400+ to see Dua Lipa with 2 other days catering to acts they have little interest in.

 

While a whole raft of attendees will have little interest in Dua Lipa and certainly not other acts like her, with once available alternative options cut to the bone.

 

V festival ultimately died going after a crowd who weren’t actually interested in festivals, just names. They lost their core attendee chasing a new crowd and then that new crowd realised it was better seeing Justin Bieber on the O2 than camping in the rain in a field.

 

Lets face it, Reading isn’t a nice ‘festival’ the camping has in general always sucked, unless you’re not all that worried about hygiene, being kept up all night or being the person keeping people up all night.

 

Now excuse me if I get a little to Chad888ish here but the average Dua Lipa fan is not someone who’ll be coming back next year to see Tyler the creator, Twenty One Pilots and Foo Fighters. They’re not the type of person who’ll enjoy Reading as a festival, they will unlikely ever be back.

 

As per my previous post, I think the festival may simply be done as a 90,000 selling juggernaut. There is too much competition, too many artists are doing huge tours.

 

What it needs to do is somehow try to establish that loyal core it once had, while still attracting the youth element, which has so much more choice than it did 10 years ago.
 

No idea how it can do it. Having Dua Lipa headline vs a dance act on the Chevron, with only 4 stages all day is not going to do it, for sure

One thing I'll say is that either Dua Lipa or SZA will be at Reading next year, I'm 99% sure of that. I do think Dua Lipa would pull a crowd at Reading but she struggled shifting tickets at £60-70 a piece with bands announcing after her selling better easily at similar prices.

[Benj]

1 hour ago, northernangel said:

One thing I'll say is that either Dua Lipa or SZA will be at Reading next year, I'm 99% sure of that. I do think Dua Lipa would pull a crowd at Reading but she struggled shifting tickets at £60-70 a piece with bands announcing after her selling better easily at similar prices.

Are people going to spend 125 each (or whatever it is now) plus the expense/ inconvenience of getting to a field in Reading/ Leeds to see her?

 

And importantly are they coming back next year?

 

Del Rey fans have clearly helped sell out her day this year, they ain’t coming back next year…

 

Festivals need people who want to go to the festival, not people who want to see artist X.
 

This is the problem Reading has now. Its no longer offers a £400 festival experience. It offers some big names you may like and little else.

Don’t like the big names? Why are you going?

 

Can see the big names you like cheaper and more conveniently elsewhere? Why are you going?

 

[charlierc]

19 hours ago, Benj said:

Doja cat is doing 3 nights

Killers 8 (amazingly)

Noah Kahan 2

Chris Stapleton 2 (to fuel the country fire again)
Nick Cave 2
Cigarettes After Sex 2
Sleep Token 5

Slipknot 2
Billie Eilish 8

Killers are doing 6 nights at London O2 but 13 overall in the UK with 4 in Manc and 3 in Glasgow.

 

Although a lot of them aren't sold out.

[charlierc]

19 hours ago, FrogLobster said:

5 years including pandemic is an entire R&L target audience shift. Especially as they have spent last few years focusing on this '6 headliners' business which is mostly acts who are too big for sub but too small as a 'traditional R&L' headliner.

Even then, I'm not sure it's strayed that far, and given Foos sold out a stadium tour, I assume there'll be some who'd also go to R&L to belt out Pretender or Times Like These.

 

I agree it would be different to times like before, but I don't necessarily think it's as far apart as say, even 2012 R&L now looks compared to it's current iteration.

[Benj]

3 hours ago, charlierc said:

Even then, I'm not sure it's strayed that far, and given Foos sold out a stadium tour, I assume there'll be some who'd also go to R&L to belt out Pretender or Times Like These.

 

I agree it would be different to times like before, but I don't necessarily think it's as far apart as say, even 2012 R&L now looks compared to its current iteration.

Foo Fighters will no doubt play Reading again, at least the organisers would be desperate for them too

 

I Don’t get this ‘the festival has moved on’…Dua Lipa played in 2018.

 

The format changed, it’s excluded a lot of nicher acts that would have had a place in the old days, Foo Fighters are not one of those nicher acts

[northernangel]

5 hours ago, Benj said:

Are people going to spend 125 each (or whatever it is now) plus the expense/ inconvenience of getting to a field in Reading/ Leeds to see her?

 

And importantly are they coming back next year?

 

Del Rey fans have clearly helped sell out her day this year, they ain’t coming back next year…

 

Festivals need people who want to go to the festival, not people who want to see artist X.
 

This is the problem Reading has now. Its no longer offers a £400 festival experience. It offers some big names you may like and little else.

Don’t like the big names? Why are you going?

 

Can see the big names you like cheaper and more conveniently elsewhere? Why are you going?

 

To be honest I think its rare you would want del Ray fans back for dua lipa. I like both, del Ray not as fussed now but i can't see them sharing much of the same crowd.

[Benj]

33 minutes ago, northernangel said:

To be honest I think it’srare you would want del Ray fans back for dua lipa. I like both, del Ray not as fussed now but i can't see them sharing much of the same crowd.

Exactly my point, although Id assume the crossover will be more than Dua Lipa and say Foo Fighters. 
 

The point I’m trying to make (and again assume some level of Chaddish over generalisation) is that Dua Lipa fans and Del Rey fans aren’t really going to be festival fans. 
 

If you you’re going to put them on, you may seek out a day at your festival (given recent history I don’t think Dua Lipa would sell out a day at Leeds or Reading) but these people won’t come back, while actual festival fans don’t bother coming as you only have a choice of Dua Lipa, Sonny Fodera or Jorja Smith to end your night (admittedly very cherry picked from this years alternative headliners).

 

I just don’t know where the festival is going, if these names are picked, alongside the current undercard. It’s not a £400 proposition, as ticket sales are showing…

 

Aw well, at least I’ll get to see Mannequin Pussy up close in a quarter full tent

Edited June 6 by Benj

[northernangel]

1 hour ago, Benj said:

Exactly my point, although Id assume the crossover will be more than Dua Lipa and say Foo Fighters. 
 

The point I’m trying to make (and again assume some level of Chaddish over generalisation) is that Dua Lipa fans and Del Rey fans aren’t really going to be festival fans. 
 

If you you’re going to put them on, you may seek out a day at your festival (given recent history I don’t think Dua Lipa would sell out a day at Leeds or Reading) but these people won’t come back, while actual festival fans don’t bother coming as you only have a choice of Dua Lipa, Sonny Fodera or Jorja Smith to end your night (admittedly very cherry picked from this years alternative headliners).

 

I just don’t know where the festival is going, if these names are picked, alongside the current undercard. It’s not a £400 proposition, as ticket sales are showing…

 

Aw well, at least I’ll get to see Mannequin Pussy up close in a quarter full tent

 

I think people will go if it's only for the day or who they want. I mean, I never thught Fred Again...was worthy of a top headline slot myself.

 

The Blink day is very good but still ultimately, many peopel already paid £90+ and north for them. £125 for a day ticket is not worth it regardless what they charged before. Going to a gig indoors is a completely different setting to a feld of teenagers running around. Also, how the hell the Reading get away with charging £55 for a car parking ticket now that was a tenner, and even a fiver! I think.

 

There is no doubting that Reading sold very quick straight after covid allowed it back because it had been away...mnay festivals got that appreciation but that time has been and gone. I can't deny though it's a string set of headliners but Blink vs The Prodigy is a madness clash that sees me pulling away from evening getting a ticket of twickets.

 

On the overall scale, rapper are what this festival need to focus on to book because that's what the age base it's put on for center themsleves around.

[Benj]

8 hours ago, northernangel said:

On the overall scale, rapper are what this festival need to focus on to book because that's what the age base it's put on for center themsleves around.

They need to get out of that mindset and more importantly get that mindset out of the potential audiences mindset

 

While that audience has always attended, the festival was never put on for it.

 

That age group went because it was a cheap experience with friends, offering a good time, after exam results came out.
 

It is no longer a cheap experience.

 

Many returned, as they were music fans and Reading offered a great way to experience live music.

 

In 2024 the same set of kids can have a week in x beach resort for cheaper, the same good time partying, for longer, more comfortably, with better weather…

 

…and at the same time there are probably 3-4 times the number of festival options for the same kids, which offer competing lineups, which are much better value and arguably offer a far better ‘festival’ experience.

 

Reading was great as it catered for everyone into alternative music. The lineups were huge and diverse.
 

The kids could go and have a great time, seeing some acts they loved. Many returned because they realised it was a good value experience for seeing live music.

 

The same kids are no longer returning...

 

The value is not there. Given the experience outside of the hugely reduced lineup, why would you choose to go to Reading?

 

To be honest I think it’s a busted flush in today’s competitive environment. Its strength was always its strength in depth. There was always something to see. With so many festivals making the available talent thin in the ground, with so many artists doing their own big tours they can’t do this any more.

 

What you’re left with is a shell of what you once had as a musical experience, wrapped in the same crappy camping experience for £400 quid, just for a ticket…

 

[Andre91]

I think you just need to accept that Reading and Leeds isn’t for you these days @Benj and you’ll never be interested in it again. 

[Benj]

Just done a quick count on Clash finder comparing this years line up with 2018…

 

Admittedly there has to be additional acts added to the current bill (as a ticket holder I bloody hope so), I fear it may be too late for a full actual additional stage announcement though less than 3 months out.

Anyway as things stand there are 28 acts announced for the Friday in 2024 over 4 stages.

 

There were 71 announced in 2018 over 6 stages 🤣

 

We’re clearly not getting another 150 acts announced in the next 3 months.

 

Its pretty clear why people are turning their back on the festival

 

 

 

 

[Benj]

33 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

I think you just need to accept that Reading and Leeds isn’t for you these days @Benj and you’ll never be interested in it again. 

Yup.

The thing is I like the line up still, musically its still my go to, there’s just not enough of it to justify going any more.
 

I’m just not paying over £1,000 all in (as a hoteller and bar drinker) for 50% of what I used to get, I can spend it much better elsewhere.

 

The big question is going to be the audience.
 

Lana Del Rey stans won’t be back to sell out a day next year.

Unless they can get people returning, like V festival, theyre done

Edited June 7 by Benj

[she bangs the drums]

I'm loving the line up and I am 50.... Saturday and Sunday afternoon at Leeds is full of clashes. Just hoping Wunderhorse and Fontaines DC don't clash and Prodigy/ Blink.

 

When do we think the next announcement might be? The week after Download or Glastonbury?

[Andre91]

4 hours ago, Benj said:

Yup.

The thing is I like the line up still, musically its still my go to, there’s just not enough of it to justify going any more.
 

I’m just not paying over £1,000 all in (as a hoteller and bar drinker) for 50% of what I used to get, I can spend it much better elsewhere.

 

The big question is going to be the audience.
 

Lana Del Rey stans won’t be back to sell out a day next year.

Unless they can get people returning, like V festival, theyre done

They’re not done. At all. 

[Benj]

31 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

They’re not done. At all. 

They are IF they don’t get people returning again

 

No one is paying 400 quid for half the lineup they used to get.

 

Parklife is 135 quid for 2 days. Why go to Leeds?

 

Boardmasters have actually been able to move on to their top tier weekend prices. £299 Inc early entry.

 

As cheap as £279 Thursday entry WITH coach travel

 

They have the same amount on as Reading.
 

Edit- Sorry I missed the second page of the lineup 🤣. They have MUCH more on than Reading (11 stages vs 6 as things stand).

 

Why go to Reading?

 

Seriously what is gonna get people going to Reading and Leeds bar “a rite of passage” that is rapidly losing its lustre to the competition?

 

 

Edited June 7 by Benj

[Andre91]

It not £400, it’s £320-30. 

[northernangel]

1 hour ago, Andre91 said:

It not £400, it’s £320-30. 

To be honest it's £320 - £365 depending on early bird and that's without shelling out a sh*t load for car parking.