SZA

[DeanoL]

35 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

You think they would show the England game on the Pyramid stage? No chance

If it was a fixed time slot known 12 months in advance? Absolutely. Why wouldn't they? People want to see it, cheaper than booking another act for that slot, plenty of other stages for those not interested.

The problem with showing the football isn't some great ethical divide where this is an arts festival, not a sports festival. It's purely one of logistics. You can't plan around the games because you don't know when they will be.

[RaphPH]

SZA deserved all she got yesterday. Her team came to Glastonbury and tried to dictate conditions. The poor security guards were told to militantly stop anyone from sitting on top of shoulders during her set and also anyone taking pictures with a camera to stop - which they were frantically flapping at and waving at punters to stop throughout. It’s a festival not a concert at The O2. 

Edited Monday at 09:48 AM by RaphPH

[Chip Batch]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

that sounds terrible

It does but I feel the pyramid isn’t far off this as it is. Still don’t want it to go totally the cheese and nostalgia route though. 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

1 minute ago, RaphPH said:

SZA deserved all she got yesterday. Her team came to Glastonbury and tried to dictate conditions. The poor security guards were told to militantly stop anyone from sitting on top of shoulders during her set and also anyone taking pictures with a camera to stop. It’s a festival not a concert at The O2. 

Oh dear. 

[FuzzyDunlop]

27 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I was guesstimating approx 50 to 60k fewer on site all weekend but by last night might have even been a six figure deficit.  Even Arcadia and Camelphat in The Glade were both quiet.  And that'll definitely have knock on impacts on attendance at the likes of Janelle Monae

 

I wonder whether that'll affect ticket sales for next year? People unhappy they spent £400 to leave early?

[FuzzyDunlop]

I am pro taking risks, esp re Headliners. Sometimes you hit & as proven - sometimes you don't.

 

But keep doing it.

 

You judt cant really have a swing on a day that England are playing though. It turns into a perfect storm.

 

You need someone big enough to compete 

 

(I appreciate that football fixtures are not announced). It feels that it was a swing on an unfortunate day to me.

[glast0gal]

I watched some of SZA’s set on Sunday with my boyfriend (at home, on the telly).

 

Some thoughts:

 

- Giving her the Sunday slot was a hard ask. Should have been SZA on the Friday, Dua on the Saturday and Coldplay on the Sunday. Think Friday would have worked best for SZA as most Glasto newbies want to see a headline Pyramid set and Friday is obviously their first chance to do just that. Sets the tone for the festival and up against Idles and the other Friday headliners, there would have been lots of choice and I think she would have attracted a larger crowd than she did with her Sunday slot.

 

- Should Emily have been more open about the fact that they tried to get someone bigger (I.e. Madge and Stevie if the rumours are to be believed?) and these options fell through? I know it’s not nice to refer to a headliner as a back up option but it humanises the organisation/operations side of the festival a bit more and might endear people to giving a new headliner a chance. It’s a sheer numbers game that the festival will have years that are just…okay? Not every year can be off the charts with headliners. Think European festivals across the board were pretty meh.

 

- They messed up with the billing and understanding who will be popular, which is hard to do. It’s hard to understand who will be a success and who won’t be and I suppose streams are a part of that to an extent but there are some acts who should have been put on a bigger stage - see: Sugababes and Avril. After Shania, there was a huge shift to Other for Avril and that was it then. Not enough of a draw back to Pyramid for people to stick around. Someone online said that SZA was a real ‘tastemaker’ booking and I agree - someone who would be good to see and adds to the variety of talent on show over the weekend. I fear that the average Glasto goer doesn’t really want to think that hard on a Sunday - people just want sing a long anthems and that’s why Coldplay should have been the Sunday act. I always think the formula for a Pyramid booking is that they should be a household name, with commercial success and BANGERS in their back catalogue.

 

- Acts like this either require Glasto goers to be more open minded or proper fans of artists having a chance to attend. I think the saddest thing was thinking that this was sold to SZA as her chance to shine and play to a huge crowd and it was hardly a Florence and the Machine stepping up to headline moment. Her staging looked stunning but she was messed about with her microphone not being right at the start and a crowd who, although on the surface seemed to be enjoying it, weren’t really her most hardcore fans. That’s such a shame, she deserved more, and I fear that could really hurt her relationship with the festival. She might be a one and done act booking-wise for the fest considering it fell so flat. That’s not really a risk they can afford to take these days as I think they need a bank of reliable talent they can bank on to appear for years to come.

 

- People going home early is quite sad to see (albeit understandable). Part of Glastonbury for me is being challenged, seeing the things you could have your mind changed on. People could have discovered an artist they may have grown to love, alas no. Goes back to the open minded thing. Tough ask on a Sunday but appreciate different people take a different approach.

[lazyred]

44 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

 

At a big stretch there was 30k at SZA.

From watching at home it was 30k young people really enjoying it. If they keep coming back the festival carries on.

[RaphPH]

1 minute ago, lazyred said:

From watching at home it was 30k young people really enjoying it. If they keep coming back the festival carries on.

There were about 5000 people inside the front pit for SZA including me. We all had about a square metre of room each and beyond the front pit backwards all we could see was field with a few people dotted around. At most there were 10K people watching tops. 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

2 minutes ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

I am pro taking risks, esp re Headliners. Sometimes you hit & as proven - sometimes you don't.

 

But keep doing it.

 

You judt cant really have a swing on a day that England are playing though. It turns into a perfect storm.

 

You need someone big enough to compete 

 

(I appreciate that football fixtures are not announced). It feels that it was a swing on an unfortunate day to me.

It may not have been definite that England were playing last night but it absolutely was known as early as December that the winners of their group would be playing at 5pm on Sunday. If the fest decided to fill the Pyramid with 6 Music acts from 5pm on Sunday, when it was likely even if not certain that England would be playing then.. that’s on them really. 

[lazyred]

1 minute ago, RaphPH said:

There were about 5000 people inside the front pit for SZA including me. We all had about a square metre of room each and beyond the front pit backwards all we could see was field with a few people dotted around. At most there were 10K people watching tops. 

Not great but the festival can't book for middle aged men like me who've been multiple times.  At some point I have to park my chair at the acoustic tent and watch the young party hard.

[st dan]

5 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Not great but the festival can't book for middle aged men like me who've been multiple times.  At some point I have to park my chair at the acoustic tent and watch the young party hard.

Don’t think that’s the main issue here though - Billie Eilish, Dua Lipa, Kendrick, Stormzy etc were all booked with the future generations in mine, and none of them bombed like this. 
No issues with the idea of what they are trying to avoid the same generic bookings every few years, but the fact the chose the wrong one. SZA is nowhere near the level required.

[jparx]

24 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

- They messed up with the billing and understanding who will be popular, which is hard to do. It’s hard to understand who will be a success and who won’t be and I suppose streams are a part of that to an extent but there are some acts who should have been put on a bigger stage - see: Sugababes and Avril. After Shania, there was a huge shift to Other for Avril and that was it then. Not enough of a draw back to Pyramid for people to stick around. Someone online said that SZA was a real ‘tastemaker’ booking and I agree - someone who would be good to see and adds to the variety of talent on show over the weekend. I fear that the average Glasto goer doesn’t really want to think that hard on a Sunday - people just want sing a long anthems and that’s why Coldplay should have been the Sunday act. I always think the formula for a Pyramid booking is that they should be a household name, with commercial success and BANGERS in their back catalogue.

I love Emily and the festival, but this has been a recurring issue now for the last handful of festivals. Yes it can be hard to predict, but it feels like they're failing to predict it more often than not at this stage, which when your business is booking a festival isn't the best look. It feels like Sunday is starting to be an issue as well. The four major ones that come to my mind (Billie on the Other, Wet Leg on the Park, O Rod on the Other and Avril on the Other) all seemed incredibly obvious before the festival. Then there's the secret sets, especially in Woodsies, which are a constant issue. If it happens once or twice, OK, but it feels like it's happening at each festival now, and sometimes multiple times per festival. 

Edited Monday at 10:20 AM by jparx

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

Why are people claiming the Pyramid should be totally different to IOW?

 

Most of these names have recently either played Glastonbury, the Pyramid, or Other, and all had near massive crowds (relative to their size).

 

Obv the overall festival is a different vibe, but many of these would do just fine on the Pyramid and without question better than Janelle, SZA, Burna Boy, PJH, Paul Heaton did in terms of drawing people in.

 

Edited Monday at 10:25 AM by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON

[Rose-Colored Boy]

17 minutes ago, jparx said:

I love Emily and the festival, but this has been a recurring issue now for the last handful of festivals. Yes it can be hard to predict, but it feels like they're failing to predict it more often than not at this stage, which when your business is booking a festival isn't the best look. There's also a recurring issue of this happening very specifically on the Sunday. The four major ones that come to my mind (Billie on the Other, Wet Leg on the Park, O Rod on the Other and Avril on the Other) all seemed incredibly obvious before the festival. Then there's the secret sets, especially in Woodsies, which are a constant issue. If it happens once or twice, OK, but it feels like it's happening at each festival now, and sometimes multiple times per festival. 

IIRC Billie actually was ugraded from John Peel to the Other because they did spot the danger with that one and wanted to put her on the biggest stage available at late notice. They also put her in a head to head clash with Miley, which should’ve helped (and probably did tbh).
 

Agree on the others though, and add Sugababes and TLC on West Holts against minimal competition too. 

Edited Monday at 10:36 AM by Rose-Colored Boy

[fraybentos1]

42 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

If it was a fixed time slot known 12 months in advance? Absolutely. Why wouldn't they? People want to see it, cheaper than booking another act for that slot, plenty of other stages for those not interested.

The problem with showing the football isn't some great ethical divide where this is an arts festival, not a sports festival. It's purely one of logistics. You can't plan around the games because you don't know when they will be.

No way they'd ever show it on the Pyramid, it's a music festival fs why would the main stage be used for football, it's a ludicrous idea. 

 

It's not logistics, it's a conscious choice that they don't show it anywhere on site officially. 

 

So what happens if England Wales N Ireland and Scotland all played over the weekend? 4 games on the pyramid instead of music? A ludicrous idea

[jparx]

Just now, Rose-Colored Boy said:

IIRC Billie actually was ugraded from John Peel to the Other because they did spot the danger with that one and wanted to put her on the biggest stage available at late notice. Agree on the others though, and add Sugababes and TLC on West Holts against minimal competition too. 

Ah yes well remembered! 

 

It does feel as though they're possibly not quite as in tune with the fans as they used to be. I find this a bit fascinating because it's the first time in what, at least 15 years where the booking of the festival is really being questioned. We've had plenty of cases, almost yearly, where a headliner is questioned but they always end up knocking it out the park. They have to be careful here, there's a real issue brewing I think. 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Just now, jparx said:

Ah yes well remembered! 

 

It does feel as though they're possibly not quite as in tune with the fans as they used to be. I find this a bit fascinating because it's the first time in what, at least 15 years where the booking of the festival is really being questioned. We've had plenty of cases, almost yearly, where a headliner is questioned but they always end up knocking it out the park. They have to be careful here, there's a real issue brewing I think. 

100%.

 

Think they’ll play it safe with a couple of Radio X headliners next year and then have a rethink of their strategies during the fallow.

[glast0gal]

14 minutes ago, jparx said:

I love Emily and the festival, but this has been a recurring issue now for the last handful of festivals. Yes it can be hard to predict, but it feels like they're failing to predict it more often than not at this stage, which when your business is booking a festival isn't the best look. It feels like Sunday is starting to be an issue as well. The four major ones that come to my mind (Billie on the Other, Wet Leg on the Park, O Rod on the Other and Avril on the Other) all seemed incredibly obvious before the festival. Then there's the secret sets, especially in Woodsies, which are a constant issue. If it happens once or twice, OK, but it feels like it's happening at each festival now, and sometimes multiple times per festival. 

This is a really fair point and one I made to my other half this weekend. I feel like there’s a bit of an ego issue (perhaps not the right label for what I’m describing) but where they want to have acts on smaller stages that could definitely (and probably should) play bigger stages, considering the crowds that they are likely to attract. If they’re going for the ‘oh look, we’re that big that we can put a massive 00s pop star on our second stage’ but it then results in chaos then that’s just silly. You’ll still have variety at the festival if you put acts on the stages they (logistically) need to play on. But I just feel like it’s a bit of a power play of sorts to put these huge names on small stages and kind of not expect chaos to unfold because people will actually want to go and watch some Tibetan throat singing on west holts instead?

[Drums Please Fab]

19 minutes ago, st dan said:

Don’t think that’s the main issue here though - Billie Eilish, Dua Lipa, Kendrick, Stormzy etc were all booked with the future generations in mine, and none of them bombed like this. 
No issues with the idea of what they are trying to avoid the same generic bookings every few years, but the fact the chose the wrong one. SZA is nowhere near the level required.

 

I think SZA's music is quite silo'd. It's the Spotify phenomenon. 

 

To those who listen, she's huge. And they will stream and stream and stream her songs compulsively. 

 

Dua Lipa was fine. Nothing special, but fine. Helps she's a local girl dun good too.

 

I would never deliberately select one of her songs on Spotify or YouTube but if it came on the radio I wouldnt change the station.

 

She has lyrics and melodies that can be sung along to. Thats all the pyramid mob wants.

 

A collegiate experience.

 

Your Mr Brightsides, your Yellows, your Champagne Supernovas., your One Kisses.

 

 

[Benjsh]

Why are we getting the 'hard to predict' line? It wasn't hard to predict whatsoever. It was so obvious she was going to get one of the smallest crowds of all time for a Headliner for months before the festival.

 

Not only should she never have been booked to headline, Emily should have also anticipated that England were likely going to finish top of the group too so the Sunday night headliner needed to be BIG to avoid people making an early exit for the football. 

 

As others have said....Coldplay not closing the festival was a huge own goal. People would have stayed for them. 

 

I hope lessons have been learned and can we please not use streaming stats ever again for who should headline. Having lots of streams, mainly in the US, clearly didn't make one iota of difference. 

[jparx]

2 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

This is a really fair point and one I made to my other half this weekend. I feel like there’s a bit of an ego issue (perhaps not the right label for what I’m describing) but where they want to have acts on smaller stages that could definitely (and probably should) play bigger stages, considering the crowds that they are likely to attract. If they’re going for the ‘oh look, we’re that big that we can put a massive 00s pop star on our second stage’ but it then results in chaos then that’s just silly. You’ll still have variety at the festival if you put acts on the stages they (logistically) need to play on. But I just feel like it’s a bit of a power play of sorts to put these huge names on small stages and kind of not expect chaos to unfold because people will actually want to go and watch some Tibetan throat singing on west holts instead?

It's an interesting thought. There is something a bit cool about Glastonbury when you see someone massive on a smaller stage, it does feel like one of the only events where that could happen. I'm not sure if they'd do that intentionally though, I think I lean more towards it being a misreading of the situation than something intentional.

 

Perhaps in the past people weren't quite as obsessive with the lineup, and there's possibly an element now of fomo where people go to see an act because they know it'll be busy and one of the more talked about sets, rather than going to see who they'd actually prefer based on their music taste, so maybe they got away with it more in the past. There's definitely something cool about being in those crowds on a smaller stage and knowing you're watching something that will be spoken about for a long time, like Lizzo in 2019 for example.

[fraybentos1]

32 minutes ago, jparx said:

I love Emily and the festival, but this has been a recurring issue now for the last handful of festivals. Yes it can be hard to predict, but it feels like they're failing to predict it more often than not at this stage, which when your business is booking a festival isn't the best look. It feels like Sunday is starting to be an issue as well. The four major ones that come to my mind (Billie on the Other, Wet Leg on the Park, O Rod on the Other and Avril on the Other) all seemed incredibly obvious before the festival. Then there's the secret sets, especially in Woodsies, which are a constant issue. If it happens once or twice, OK, but it feels like it's happening at each festival now, and sometimes multiple times per festival. 

The other stage is a totally fine place to put a big up and coming artist, the capacity is pretty big. 

 

Part of the issue this year was a very weak pyramid. 

Edited Monday at 10:51 AM by fraybentos1

[glast0gal]

2 minutes ago, jparx said:

It's an interesting thought. There is something a bit cool about Glastonbury when you see someone massive on a smaller stage, it does feel like one of the only events where that could happen. I'm not sure if they'd do that intentionally though, I think I lean more towards it being a misreading of the situation than something intentional.

 

Perhaps in the past people weren't quite as obsessive with the lineup, and there's possibly an element now of fomo where people go to see an act because they know it'll be busy and one of the more talked about sets, rather than going to see who they'd actually prefer based on their music taste, so maybe they got away with it more in the past. There's definitely something cool about being in those crowds on a smaller stage and knowing you're watching something that will be spoken about for a long time, like Lizzo in 2019 for example.

Yeah I definitely agree with you here. Lizzo in 2019 is a great example. I think you’ve really hit the nail on the head with the fomo element of it. I think there are a lot of clout chasers who attend who want to tick off every possible ‘Glastonbury moment’ and I think it just feels a bit forced. The magic of those moments comes from being in the right place at the right time, rather than something that’s a bit over engineered. Don’t really know how you resolve or undo that because that’s more of a social/attitude thing than anything else? Most bookings I would say are on the right stage at the right time. Think of the sets that have been sensational not only this year but in previous years as well! I think if anything, Glastonbury underestimates how popular pop music has become again. If they book Charli XCX for next year I think she could easily pull off a late afternoon Pyramid set.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

15 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

This is a really fair point and one I made to my other half this weekend. I feel like there’s a bit of an ego issue (perhaps not the right label for what I’m describing) but where they want to have acts on smaller stages that could definitely (and probably should) play bigger stages, considering the crowds that they are likely to attract. If they’re going for the ‘oh look, we’re that big that we can put a massive 00s pop star on our second stage’ but it then results in chaos then that’s just silly. You’ll still have variety at the festival if you put acts on the stages they (logistically) need to play on. But I just feel like it’s a bit of a power play of sorts to put these huge names on small stages and kind of not expect chaos to unfold because people will actually want to go and watch some Tibetan throat singing on west holts instead?

Agree although it’s worth remembering that the Other is an absolutely massive field that ought to be capable of hosting most big acts outside of stadium fillers. The problem arises when the acts on the Other aren’t given appropriate competition on the Pyramid to balance it out. That’s why they (just about) got away with Billie (Miley), Liam Gallagher (Katy Perry) and Olivia (Noel Gallagher) while Avril (Janelle) and Lewis Capaldi (Hozier) turned into a shitshow.