SZA

[Drums Please Fab]

 

 

She is not even singing for most of that. 

[DeanoL]

23 minutes ago, jparx said:

This football chat baffles me beyond belief. I'm a huge football fan, live and breathe it throughout the season. When I'm at Glastonbury, or any festival, it's honestly the last possible thing I could care about. Especially in this tournament, jesus christ. People really that arsed to leave the festival early to watch the utter shite of the England national team? Horses for courses I guess.

Yeah but this eFests. People here *love* Glastonbury. Whereas for most people, it's just another festival. They've had three full days of it, skipping half of the final day to watch the football instead (plus also getting to drive home while more awake and less traffic and easier to get off the site) - it's a fair trade off. And I say that as someone who has watched like one football match their entire life, under duress.

 

Anyone who usually leaves after the headliners on Sunday and did so last year will have seen it. Normally you can pretty much drive off site straight away, indeed, it's when the festival recommend you leave for a quick exit. Yet last year we were queueing for like 3 hours to get out of the car park. Why? Because nearly all the folk that normally leave over the course of Sunday afternoon an early evening stuck around because it was *Elton John*. 

 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the entire "Sunday local tickets" was predicated on the idea that people start leaving on Sunday anyway?

[glast0gal]

26 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Just cause SZA was a bump up does not mean ludicrous ideas like Avril Lavigne headlining should have merit. She got a big crowd cause it was a nostalgia fest and she was up against nothing. S Club 7 would get a big crowd, doesn't mean they should headline.

This point needs to be repeated more often. Some acts would draw a crowd but aren’t worthy of a headliner spot. There are many different ‘ingredients’ that go into a good headliner and pulling a crowd is just one consideration, normally influenced by bigger factors such as an artist’s credibility and talent.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

5 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

This point needs to be repeated more often. Some acts would draw a crowd but aren’t worthy of a headliner spot. There are many different ‘ingredients’ that go into a good headliner and pulling a crowd is just one consideration, normally influenced by bigger factors such as an artist’s credibility and talent.

I agree but in the circumstances Avril was probably their best option out of those on the bill. Not like I’m suggesting Barney The Dinosaur to headline - she’s been reasonably influential, means a lot to a lot of people, plays live, and all the rest. The only thing going against her is that her commercial peak was a while ago, but that’s no different to plenty of headliners. 

Edited Monday at 12:59 PM by Rose-Colored Boy

[glast0gal]

2 minutes ago, Rose-Colored Boy said:

I agree but in the circumstances Avril was probably their best option out of those on the bill. Not like I’m suggesting Barney The Dinosaur to headline - she’s been reasonably influential, means a lot to a lot of people, plays live, and all the rest. The only thing going against her is that her commercial peak was a while ago, but that’s no different to plenty of headliners. 

Avril would have been immensely fun and probably could have pulled it off but I think my gripe is more that the pipeline of the kind of God tier awesome headline acts has run dry, so where does that leave the festival for future events?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

1 minute ago, glast0gal said:

Avril would have been immensely fun and probably could have pulled it off but I think my gripe is more that the pipeline of the kind of God tier awesome headline acts has run dry, so where does that leave the festival for future events?

Moving away from the emphasis on god tier awesome headline acts, is probably where it leaves the festival. Just maybe not as suddenly and emphatically as last night 😄 

[glast0gal]

1 minute ago, Rose-Colored Boy said:

Moving away from the emphasis on god tier awesome headline acts, is probably where it leaves the festival. Just maybe not as suddenly and emphatically as last night 😄 

I think you’re right! I wouldn’t mind - I’m just happy to be there whenever I get the chance to go😁 but I think there’s people whose expectations need to be lowered (without that sounding like a bad thing - just that we can’t expect to have bands as they were at their height 20 plus years after that point).

[Respectfatfrog]

would of preferred Avril in the legends spot. 

 

I suspect most will disagree however 

[DeanoL]

8 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

Avril would have been immensely fun and probably could have pulled it off but I think my gripe is more that the pipeline of the kind of God tier awesome headline acts has run dry, so where does that leave the festival for future events?

Avril would have got a worse reception than SZA in the press when announced, even if she'd have pulled more in during the show, which I think is a consideration.

 

I mean, I suspect I'm not the only one who had never heard of SZA but presumed that if they're headlining they must be huge in their field and really popular. Whereas I *know* Avril isn't really headline material.

[ghostdancer1]

56 minutes ago, Lycra said:

A couple  I know left Sunday afternoon because they didn't fancy seeing any of the remaining line up. They also weren't bothered about the football..

Indeed, as did I'd imagine 95% of people that left on Sunday, or else had work/personal commitments.

People who left yesterday overwhelmingly did not do so to watch England v Slovakia at 5pm. It's an absurd suggestion.

[glast0gal]

Just now, Respectfatfrog said:

would of preferred Avril in the legends spot. 

 

I suspect most will disagree however 

You make a good point where maybe the legends slot needs to pivot to more 90s/00s nostalgia? Acts that would have headlined back in the day but wouldn’t make the top of the Pyramid bill now. I suppose your Stereophonics kind of acts or I think someone with a bit more exclusivity.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

4 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

I think you’re right! I wouldn’t mind - I’m just happy to be there whenever I get the chance to go😁 but I think there’s people whose expectations need to be lowered (without that sounding like a bad thing - just that we can’t expect to have bands as they were at their height 20 plus years after that point).

Yep. And if expectations can be successfully lowered then it might mean the fest are less inclined to turn their noses up at solid British bands like Foals, which would be no bad thing. 

[jparx]

2 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

Avril would have been immensely fun and probably could have pulled it off but I think my gripe is more that the pipeline of the kind of God tier awesome headline acts has run dry, so where does that leave the festival for future events?

This is why I've been arguing for a while that the definition of a headline needed to be lowered. We were always going to reach the point where the pool of mega acts started to run dry. There are so many acts in that second tier who could headline the festival successfully, possibly flanked by someone like a Coldplay to add a bit of star power, if those expectations were adjusted slightly. If they'd started doing this a couple years back when you had an act like, e.g. Wolf Alice on the rise, winning the Mercury Prize, it might have been less of a shock to see SZA there. People like Lana, Sam Fender, Lorde, Chemical Brothers would put on great sets IMO. Heck even the likes of Liam, New Order type acts. A big part of it is the festival working with the BBC to emphasise how important those acts are and frame it in the correct way. SZA was a real opportunity to do this but I feel like they wanted to just quietly move on from it than celebrate her and promote the hell out of it prior to the event. It almost felt like they were embarrassed about it!  Glastonbury is in a position where, if it's done properly, they can give a leg up to these acts and tell the fans they are headliners, whereas with SZA it felt like they were almost pleading with people that she's a headliner.

[GordonMcG]

With the benefit of hindsight when they didn't (we suspect) get Madonna or Stevie Wonder for Sunday, Shania was probably the best option to bump up to headliner.

 

Avril sub into Shania would have made sense given the wave of people who moved from Shania to Other for Avril.

 

However I didn't expect either to get as busy as they were so hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Andy0808 v5]

1 hour ago, Drums Please Fab said:

Last visited is the day he died too 😅

The thought of Prince on his death bed checking the rumours page one last time..

 

’Finally, they’ve realised it will never happen..’ 

 

before finally letting go and passing.

[ghostdancer1]

2 minutes ago, Respectfatfrog said:

would of preferred Avril in the legends spot. 

 

I suspect most will disagree however 

Would be fine if it wasn't now known as the Legends slot. Cue grumbling about how she's not a "legend".

If it was called the Sunday Nostalgia Cheese Slot (tm), it would have been fine.

 

[Respectfatfrog]

3 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

You make a good point where maybe the legends slot needs to pivot to more 90s/00s nostalgia? Acts that would have headlined back in the day but wouldn’t make the top of the Pyramid bill now. I suppose your Stereophonics kind of acts or I think someone with a bit more exclusivity.

 

yeah I would agree on the 90s thing also simply we are running out of "legends" Avril would been a good pick me up on a Sunday.

[Drums Please Fab]

2 minutes ago, jparx said:

This is why I've been arguing for a while that the definition of a headline needed to be lowered. We were always going to reach the point where the pool of mega acts started to run dry. There are so many acts in that second tier who could headline the festival successfully, possibly flanked by someone like a Coldplay to add a bit of star power, if those expectations were adjusted slightly. If they'd started doing this a couple years back when you had an act like, e.g. Wolf Alice on the rise, winning the Mercury Prize, it might have been less of a shock to see SZA there. People like Lana, Sam Fender, Lorde, Chemical Brothers would put on great sets IMO. Heck even the likes of Liam, New Order type acts. A big part of it is the festival working with the BBC to emphasise how important those acts are and frame it in the correct way. SZA was a real opportunity to do this but I feel like they wanted to just quietly move on from it than celebrate her and promote the hell out of it prior to the event. It almost felt like they were embarrassed about it!  Glastonbury is in a position where, if it's done properly, they can give a leg up to these acts and tell the fans they are headliners, whereas with SZA it felt like they were almost pleading with people that she's a headliner.

 

great post 👍

[Respectfatfrog]

2 minutes ago, ghostdancer1 said:

Would be fine if it wasn't now known as the Legends slot. Cue grumbling about how she's not a "legend".

If it was called the Sunday Nostalgia Cheese Slot (tm), it would have been fine.

 

this be true 

 

maybe the use of the word legend should be toned down a bit moving forward, it will never please everyone this years legends was the most boring in a longtime but its just one mans opinion 

[dingbat2]

We have become a bit obsessed with the size of the crowd/how empty the field looks. We have been spoilt for a lot of years with some massive crowds. I think it started with Rolling Stones, when they moved the field back into Row Mead camoing for the first time (I think) - I think it went back even further in later years. We need to get used to not expecting 100-120k at the Pyramid for the likes of the Stones, Dolly and a few other legends, Macca, Elton, Coldplay, etc. 100k seems to be the expectation for a headliner which I don't think is sustainable anymore (Taylor might be the exception) - perhaps we need to bring back the sampling in Row Mead, so the field looks less empty and expect 50-60k as the norm for future headliners. I mean thats a cracking crowd still, you wont get that at any other festival in the UK. Sounds like SZA crowd was exceptionally small though

[glast0gal]

5 minutes ago, jparx said:

This is why I've been arguing for a while that the definition of a headline needed to be lowered. We were always going to reach the point where the pool of mega acts started to run dry. There are so many acts in that second tier who could headline the festival successfully, possibly flanked by someone like a Coldplay to add a bit of star power, if those expectations were adjusted slightly. If they'd started doing this a couple years back when you had an act like, e.g. Wolf Alice on the rise, winning the Mercury Prize, it might have been less of a shock to see SZA there. People like Lana, Sam Fender, Lorde, Chemical Brothers would put on great sets IMO. Heck even the likes of Liam, New Order type acts. A big part of it is the festival working with the BBC to emphasise how important those acts are and frame it in the correct way. SZA was a real opportunity to do this but I feel like they wanted to just quietly move on from it than celebrate her and promote the hell out of it prior to the event. It almost felt like they were embarrassed about it!  Glastonbury is in a position where, if it's done properly, they can give a leg up to these acts and tell the fans they are headliners, whereas with SZA it felt like they were almost pleading with people that she's a headliner.

Agree agree agree. I think the festival sometimes forget that they are in a position with a lot of leverage around the comms and framing of the festival. I know they like to create the DIY/back of a fag packet veneer where it’s almost like a patchwork wilt coming together HOWEVER they have a huge platform to tell people what’s up and get people ready for who’s performing. Think Friday headliner needs to be for the new blood - a band getting that leg up into the prime spot. I think they’re going to make Fred Again a Pyramid headliner next year just off of the hype that he’s had. But then…but then…what if there isn’t an act after the fallow that can fall into a headline spot because they don’t have as much hype/following? This goes back to your excellent point of the fact that the festival should have started sowing the seeds for this years back.

[DeanoL]

The Legends slot is interesting as I'd swear that pulls in far more people just by notion of the festival describing them as the "legend". 

I'm sort of baffled why they didn't give it Paul Heaton to be honest, feels like it's just because he's there every few years and it's cheap to go see him on his own, but not like he doesn't have the tunes and the history.

[Respectfatfrog]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

The Legends slot is interesting as I'd swear that pulls in far more people just by notion of the festival describing them as the "legend". 

I'm sort of baffled why they didn't give it Paul Heaton to be honest, feels like it's just because he's there every few years and it's cheap to go see him on his own, but not like he doesn't have the tunes and the history.

 

I think Dolly broke the legends spot. 

 

I look at the spot like a party now I want to get up and dance have a sing song and feel the energy of the crowd. 

 

not many have a catalogue like Dolly or kylie but its what's become to be expected. 

 

I would have gone for Paul as well if not Avril 

[fraybentos1]

37 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

This point needs to be repeated more often. Some acts would draw a crowd but aren’t worthy of a headliner spot. There are many different ‘ingredients’ that go into a good headliner and pulling a crowd is just one consideration, normally influenced by bigger factors such as an artist’s credibility and talent.

Yeah I think if you put James Blunt on the lineup for example, they would get a gigantic crowd. Headliner he is not, however. Yeah I totally agree with what you're saying. It's hard to quantify what makes a headliner but some people just don't have it 

[jparx]

6 minutes ago, glast0gal said:

Agree agree agree. I think the festival sometimes forget that they are in a position with a lot of leverage around the comms and framing of the festival. I know they like to create the DIY/back of a fag packet veneer where it’s almost like a patchwork wilt coming together HOWEVER they have a huge platform to tell people what’s up and get people ready for who’s performing. Think Friday headliner needs to be for the new blood - a band getting that leg up into the prime spot. I think they’re going to make Fred Again a Pyramid headliner next year just off of the hype that he’s had. But then…but then…what if there isn’t an act after the fallow that can fall into a headline spot because they don’t have as much hype/following? This goes back to your excellent point of the fact that the festival should have started sowing the seeds for this years back.

Yep, Friday night as "breakthrough headliner" night is a winner IMO. I fear they had the chance to do this and missed the boat though. It's now starting to look like they're struggling for headliners, rather than it being a pro active strategy.