SZA

[Suprefan]

2 hours ago, LinvoyPrimus said:

Just to add my two cents here...

 

Very much rate SZA as an artist and I think she absolutely deserves a spot at the table. I also understand that festivals, particularly Glastonbury, cannot simply "just book *INSERT NAME OF RIDICULOUSLY HUGE GLOBAL MEGASTAR LEGEND HERE*" to headline. 

 

Festivals should be taking more punts and creating new headliners rather than simply relying on old favourites. Glastonbury has done a good job of this in recent years. 

 

I don't think her comically underhas anything to do with race, gender, football, or any other external factors – it's as simple as this...

• She's not a big name in the UK.
• Her label / management (and you could extend this to the festival itself, and the BBC) did not do ANYWHERE NEAR ENOUGH promotion to get people at least vaguely curious about her. No leg work went in to get people interested. 
• She was booked in the absolute worst slot possible. Sunday night is not the time for snoozy, introspective, low-key RnB. People want a sing-a-long or a dance or a mosh pit to end their weekend on a high note. We're (mostly) all going 'out-out' as soon as the headliner has finished, and when you look at recent headliners (and therefore what people who bought tickets this year have in mind when buying their tickets) that's what people want and expect to get.
• Not enough diversity among the other Sunday headliners (bar Justice). It was snoozy. Justice were always going to draw a huge crowd.

I had concerns about all of the above (as did most of us here), but I was desperately hoping to be proven wrong, and that this would turn out to be a savvy move by Emily. A potential masterstroke, in retrospect.

 

It's probably the single worst bit of booking in the recent history of the festival – this falls squarely on Emily Eavis and is a total mis-read of the current Glastonbury demographic and their expectations.

Glasto hasnt "created" a new headliner since Stormzy in 2019. Thats not enough progress in 5 years. Like somebody to take a punt on, not somebody that hasnt done the fest and you say "yeah that makes sense". Billie had headlined a bunch of festivals before she got to Glasto so it was just a matter of when. Coachella is the one that keeps moving forward on that front whenever possible. 2023 alone was Blackpink, Bad Bunny and Frank Ocean. This year was Doja Cat although she kinda held them hostage with that booking once they had gone through other options. ( shakira, olivia to name a couple )  I mean they pulled No Doubt of of a hat with 2 weeks to go and it paid off performance and crowd wise.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Wonder if something had gone wrong between the festival and SZA in the run up given things like the lack of streaming for her set.and the lack of other accompanying bells and whistles (when was the last time El Pointo concluded on the Sunday without any fireworks?)

[LinvoyPrimus]

11 minutes ago, Suprefan said:

Glasto hasnt "created" a new headliner since Stormzy in 2019. Thats not enough progress in 5 years. Like somebody to take a punt on, not somebody that hasnt done the fest and you say "yeah that makes sense". Billie had headlined a bunch of festivals before she got to Glasto so it was just a matter of when. Coachella is the one that keeps moving forward on that front whenever possible. 2023 alone was Blackpink, Bad Bunny and Frank Ocean. This year was Doja Cat although she kinda held them hostage with that booking once they had gone through other options. ( shakira, olivia to name a couple )  I mean they pulled No Doubt of of a hat with 2 weeks to go and it paid off performance and crowd wise.

I get your broader point but I’m not sure Bad Bunny or Frank Ocean count as ‘punts’ though… 
 

I don’t think any festival has it easy these days but I do think Coachella being extremely close to LA is probably advantageous.

[MindTheLongdrop]

Adding my thoughts:

 

I like SZA and was at the set with a few friends. It was a good performance on the whole but as someone said just felt like a tour stop, barely any interaction. And the super distorted mic didn't help. By the end all her songs had blended together into droney mess. Crowd was v thin, empty behind the first sound deck, with people spread out sat or lying down. In the end we left 10 minutes early to say bye to our friends before their coach.

 

Left just to me I probably go for Justice for a more upbeat vibe but my gf was keen to watch. Others in my group (mid-20s, female) did London Grammar and The Feeling instead. I think the chill RnB vibe is just not what people are after on Sun. Especially if you've ticked your Pyramid box on Fri and/or Sat. Then you have the glasto demographic issue, I think age is more of a factor than race, around me the crowd did skew quite young, lots of people with braces 

 

A shame because this is a good risk to take. I feel bad for SZA as she's headline worthy and makes good music but to an extent she was set up to fail. Maybe there's behind the scenes politics but for me the festival need to be more on top of this if they want to or are seen to be 'giving a chance' to artists in the headline slot (esp women or POC).

 

That being said it isn't a disaster or end of the world. I doubt SZA's career is harmed by headlining a huge festival and for glastonbury life moves on, albeit with lessons to be learned for the future. 

[Ready2Spray]

2 hours ago, Colorblindjames said:

I disagree that she’s not a big name in the UK. She’s doing Hyde park I believe. She’s not a big name among the Glastonbury crowd which lets be honest isn’t very diverse and is mostly white middle class folks. Booking Artists like SZA might change that demographic which would be good. That’s why the backlash is so annoying and unfair. Mostly it’s by old men who only want to listen to the Gallaghers and Foo Fighters. 

 

Principal Skinner meme: "Am I out of touch? No it's the paying punters who are wrong"

[Colorblindjames]

32 minutes ago, Ready2Spray said:

 

Principal Skinner meme: "Am I out of touch? No it's the paying punters who are wrong"

1000s of the paying punters walked from Shania to Avril and chose to miss Janelle. Scheduling the content of the pyramid to meet the demands of this demographic risks the festival becoming a bigger IoW or Hyde Park. 

[UncleJunior]

On 7/1/2024 at 10:14 AM, Wooderson said:

No one complained at FKA twigs perf on West Holts a few years back. That sinewy neo solo worked great there. SZA would have been wonderful on that stage last night. Simbi should have headlined the Mid instead. But she doesn't have a billion streams clouding the debate...

 

Spotify stats need to get in the sea whe it applies to festival curation. Horrendous.

SZA did 4 or 5 sell out nights at the O2 which Simbi could only dream of.

[UncleJunior]

On 7/1/2024 at 11:02 AM, Rose-Colored Boy said:

It may not have been definite that England were playing last night but it absolutely was known as early as December that the winners of their group would be playing at 5pm on Sunday. If the fest decided to fill the Pyramid with 6 Music acts from 5pm on Sunday, when it was likely even if not certain that England would be playing then.. that’s on them really. 

Have you ever actually listened to 6music? Shania, Burna Boy, and SZA are not regulars.

[stuie]

My final shift Sunday afternoon, I’ve never seen so many people leaving and going home as this year. Anecdotal, but a few people we chatted to said there was nothing left they wanted to see! 

[sjseabass]

38 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

1000s of the paying punters walked from Shania to Avril and chose to miss Janelle. Scheduling the content of the pyramid to meet the demands of this demographic risks the festival becoming a bigger IoW or Hyde Park. 

You can absolutely get in the bin with this idea that anyone who went to see Avril has no taste or real interest in music mate. I was in inconsolable bits at Radiohead doing Pyramid Song in 2017, Max Cooper blew my mind at a techno festival in Lisbon last year, I’ve seen over 2000 live sets in 14 years with the best the likes of Bjork, Kendrick, Florence and David Byrne, and this year Fat Dog, Kneecap and Bob Vylan all destroyed it on the Peace Stage. Watching McCartney in 2022 was practically an out of body experience. Avril means a lot to me from my early years getting into music, the opportunity to see her has never presented itself before and I belted out every word (and cried at I’m With You). And not going to Janelle (who is great, but hardly the second coming) instead is some sort of credibility stick for you to use? You’re a moron.

[Furq]

4 hours ago, Colorblindjames said:

I disagree that she’s not a big name in the UK. She’s doing Hyde park I believe. She’s not a big name among the Glastonbury crowd which lets be honest isn’t very diverse and is mostly white middle class folks. Booking Artists like SZA might change that demographic which would be good. That’s why the backlash is so annoying and unfair. Mostly it’s by old men who only want to listen to the Gallaghers and Foo Fighters. 

It's hard to see the demographic shifting very much at all while tickets are sold before acts are announced. One headliner certainly won't shift perceptions.

Also, it's immaterial whether SZA is a "big name" in the UK or not, or has enough fans to sell a gig in a park.

 

The key queston Is whether she's popular with Glastonbury 'revellers'. And the answer was an empathic 'no'.

It's ridiculous to blame "old men" btw. If SZA had drawn Avril Lavigne's crowd (mostly young females who, as others have said, wanted a singalong) we wouldn't be having this debate.

Edited July 2 by Furq

[Colorblindjames]

1 hour ago, sjseabass said:

You can absolutely get in the bin with this idea that anyone who went to see Avril has no taste or real interest in music mate. I was in inconsolable bits at Radiohead doing Pyramid Song in 2017, Max Cooper blew my mind at a techno festival in Lisbon last year, I’ve seen over 2000 live sets in 14 years with the best the likes of Bjork, Kendrick, Florence and David Byrne, and this year Fat Dog, Kneecap and Bob Vylan all destroyed it on the Peace Stage. Watching McCartney in 2022 was practically an out of body experience. Avril means a lot to me from my early years getting into music, the opportunity to see her has never presented itself before and I belted out every word (and cried at I’m With You). And not going to Janelle (who is great, but hardly the second coming) instead is some sort of credibility stick for you to use? You’re a moron.

Thanks for proving my point that you mostly like legacy acts. The point is people left the chance to see JM for someone who hasn’t been relevant in years. Oh and I didn’t say everyone who went has no real taste in music. So you made that up. 

[Colorblindjames]

26 minutes ago, Furq said:

It's hard to see the demographic shifting very much at all while tickets are sold before acts are announced. One headliner certainly won't shift perceptions.

Also, it's immaterial whether SZA is a "big name" in the UK or not, or has enough fans to sell a gig in a park.

 

The key queston Is whether she's popular with Glastonbury 'revellers'. And the answer was an empathic 'no'.

It's ridiculous to blame "old men" btw. If SZA had drawn Avril Lavigne's crowd (mostly young females who, as others have said, wanted a singalong) we wouldn't be having this debate.

Considering Glastonbury sells out before the lineup is announced means most people paying are accepting the line up risk. 

[sjseabass]

8 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Thanks for proving my point that you mostly like legacy acts. The point is people left the chance to see JM for someone who hasn’t been relevant in years. Oh and I didn’t say everyone who went has no real taste in music. So you made that up. 

lmao, can you read my sig? Or would you like to see my clashfinder? How did you rate Otoboke Beaver on Saturday by the way?

 

Plus you literally did say people who went to Avril have no taste:

 

On 7/1/2024 at 8:45 PM, Colorblindjames said:

Janelle Monae was very empty while Avril Levine was packed. This shows a lot of people simply have no taste. 

 

[Colorblindjames]

6 minutes ago, sjseabass said:

lmao, can you read my sig? Or would you like to see my clashfinder? How did you rate Otoboke Beaver on Saturday by the way?

 

Plus you literally did say people who went to Avril have no taste:

 

 

Where did I say that? 

[crumbler]

1 hour ago, sjseabass said:

You can absolutely get in the bin with this idea that anyone who went to see Avril has no taste or real interest in music mate. I was in inconsolable bits at Radiohead doing Pyramid Song in 2017, Max Cooper blew my mind at a techno festival in Lisbon last year, I’ve seen over 2000 live sets in 14 years with the best the likes of Bjork, Kendrick, Florence and David Byrne, and this year Fat Dog, Kneecap and Bob Vylan all destroyed it on the Peace Stage. Watching McCartney in 2022 was practically an out of body experience. Avril means a lot to me from my early years getting into music, the opportunity to see her has never presented itself before and I belted out every word (and cried at I’m With You). And not going to Janelle (who is great, but hardly the second coming) instead is some sort of credibility stick for you to use? You’re a moron.

Hilariously deranged post. The Glasto comedown is real!

Edited July 2 by crumbler

[Colorblindjames]

4 minutes ago, crumbler said:

Hilariously deranged post. The Glasto comedown is real!

He made it up. 

[Xeph1995]

SZA one of the best headliners I’ve ever seen at Glasto, can’t even begin to express the confusion about the negative takes. Dua and SZA both smashed it. The only other Pyramid headliner that I enjoyed that much was The Cure. 
 

it was a brave and bold booking and wasn’t even the first choice anyway, people wrote her of from day 1.

 

Absolutely sick of the negativity. 
 

Coldplay dullest booking of the weekend but half of the people complaining probably lap that up.

 

Don’t think anything will top seeing Qotsa on the other last year for me but SZA and Dua both came close. 

Edited July 3 by Xeph1995

[CaledonianGonzo]

In the footage it looked like the folk in the pit were enjoying it a lot.

[Colorblindjames]

2 hours ago, Xeph1995 said:

SZA one of the best headliners I’ve ever seen at Glasto, can’t even begin to express the confusion about the negative takes. Dua and SZA both smashed it. The only other Pyramid headliner that I enjoyed that much was The Cure. 
 

it was a brave and bold booking and wasn’t even the first choice anyway, people wrote her of from day 1.

 

Absolutely sick of the negativity. 
 

Coldplay dullest booking of the weekend but half of the people complaining probably lap that up.

 

Don’t think anything will top seeing Qotsa on the other last year for me but SZA and Dua both came close. 

Yes loved it too. I don’t understand people who go to Glastonbury and don’t try new things. For me that’s the best part of a festival. 

[sjseabass]

8 hours ago, Colorblindjames said:

He made it up. 

Made what up?

[-TLR-]

i tried to give SZA a chance - i lasted two songs and she was, literally, making my ears hurt so i gave up and went to bed. 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

Updated list:

 

Football.

Work commitments.

Traffic control.

Poor advertisement.

No special guests.

Entourage taking phones off people.

Entourage taking people off of shoulders.

Quality acts like the National up against her.

Backed into a corner because of the 2x female headliners tease.

Too many people didn't know her.

Too many dads and old men at the festival.

Not enough kids.

Too many stuck in a Spotify bubble.

Sexism.

No one's got any taste.

Not enough fence jumpers to boost site no's.

Racism.

Too much dust on site.

High pollen count.

Pablo Honey.

Fascists on the internet.

Too many people want Liam Gallagher and Foo Fighters.

Punters at Glastonbury are not diverse enough.

Not a legacy act.

 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

8 hours ago, Colorblindjames said:

He made it up. 

 

I think the sjseabass quoted your post directly? Are you now claiming you never said people who chose Avril over Janelle and SZA have no taste?

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

Surely, we can all agree that it was a punt that went wrong for whatever reasons, and it's not SZA's fault?

 

We don't need to get our pitchforks out and blame people voting with their feet for being too old, too male, too monolithic? 

Edited July 3 by MEGATRONICMEATWAGON