UK Politics

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

behind a paywall but he summarises most if it in thread...basically difficult how to play this by Reeves, obviously a lot of it self inflicted for decisions made during campaign, but that was the trap set by Tories who would be faced with same dilemma if they'd won (but they knew they wouldn't). On top of all that is internal Labour problems over that 2 child cap.

Going to a difficult few years, longer if they don't get growth up a few percent.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if they hadn't said they wouldn't raise NI/IT/VAT would they still have won a comfortable majority? Probably, but we'll never know.

 

[Nobody Interesting]

40 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

behind a paywall but he summarises most if it in thread...basically difficult how to play this by Reeves, obviously a lot of it self inflicted for decisions made during campaign, but that was the trap set by Tories who would be faced with same dilemma if they'd won (but they knew they wouldn't). On top of all that is internal Labour problems over that 2 child cap.

Going to a difficult few years, longer if they don't get growth up a few percent.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if they hadn't said they wouldn't raise NI/IT/VAT would they still have won a comfortable majority? Probably, but we'll never know.

 

 

'Weeks of deliberation on how to get it right and yet despite only finding the black hole last week they are talking about what they will do on Monday................ so if it took weeks of deliberation then they knew about it long before they sadi they did.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

'Weeks of deliberation on how to get it right and yet despite only finding the black hole last week they are talking about what they will do on Monday................ so if it took weeks of deliberation then they knew about it long before they sadi they did.

of course they knew that it was bad, but they wouldn't have known the fine details of how bad it was and where the acute problems actually were.

It is a mix of politics and an actual public service crisis not all of which labour could have known about before coming into power.

 

[Nobody Interesting]

31 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

of course they knew that it was bad, but they wouldn't have known the fine details of how bad it was and where the acute problems actually were.

It is a mix of politics and an actual public service crisis not all of which labour could have known about before coming into power.

 

 

Are you saying that the IFS who saw all the same details during the election and said there was a £20bn shortfall just made that up then?
It was known about, long ago and is just being used as a political toy.

There is nothing that they could not have seen - not my words but those of the people in Whitehall who know.

Edited July 27 by Nobody Interesting

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

Are you saying that the IFS who saw all the same details during the election and said there was a £20bn shortfall just made that up then?
It was known about, long ago and is just being used as a political toy.

There is nothing that they could not have seen - not my words but those of the people in Whitehall who know

No I mean the actual details for each state department etc. Not overall numbers.

[lazyred]

16 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Are you saying that the IFS who saw all the same details during the election and said there was a £20bn shortfall just made that up then?
It was known about, long ago and is just being used as a political toy.

There is nothing that they could not have seen - not my words but those of the people in Whitehall who know.

 

All true but the IFS don't have to get  elected. Any hint of tax rises would have been distorted and amplified. How could else Labour play it? Labour had costed manifesto promises and the Tories did leave a mess that any incoming Govt would have to fix with tax rises.

 

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

jeez man, it's not hard. It's ok for police to use force when being attacked, it is not ok for them to kick someone in the head once they've been restrained.

[Nobody Interesting]

12 hours ago, lazyred said:

 

All true but the IFS don't have to get  elected. Any hint of tax rises would have been distorted and amplified. How could else Labour play it? Labour had costed manifesto promises and the Tories did leave a mess that any incoming Govt would have to fix with tax rises.

 

 

 

Honesty is how all political parties should 'play it'.

At least some other ties said tax rises were needed and detailed which ones.

14 years of Tory lies should not mean we now get Labour lies.

[Nobody Interesting]

13 hours ago, steviewevie said:

No I mean the actual details for each state department etc. Not overall numbers.

 

They would have had access to the departmental information.

[Nobody Interesting]

11 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

30k is not that large.

It just looks like it and the speeches being so vile will put most people off having anything to do with it thankfully.

[Nobody Interesting]

59 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

jeez man, it's not hard. It's ok for police to use force when being attacked, it is not ok for them to kick someone in the head once they've been restrained.

Spot on

[steviewevie]

Move over ERG...we now have LGG..

 

 

Edited July 28 by steviewevie

[lazyred]

2 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

Honesty is how all political parties should 'play it'.

At least some other ties said tax rises were needed and detailed which ones.

14 years of Tory lies should not mean we now get Labour lies.

You mean those parties that didn't win. We'll find out soon if Labour lied or not but they only ruled out specific tax rises.

[lazyred]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

jeez man, it's not hard. It's ok for police to use force when being attacked, it is not ok for them to kick someone in the head once they've been restrained.

The CCTV video on the MEN website shows it all happened very quickly. The police were attacked and the man in light blue puts 2 officers on the floor before jumping on the offending officer from behind. They both fall to the ground and it looks like he has been tasered but not hand cuffed. The officer gets up, the man raises his head and he is kicked in the head. Its not right but it wasn't a calm situation.

[steviewevie]

25 minutes ago, lazyred said:

You mean those parties that didn't win. We'll find out soon if Labour lied or not but they only ruled out specific tax rises.

I think point is lying about knowing state of public finances.

[lazyred]

5 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I think point is lying about knowing state of public finances.

Fair enough, we know opposition ministers discuss their plans with civil servants before the election but we don't know what data they get access to. It was widely reported the NI cuts were based on unattainable public service cuts and that defence, prisons, LA's, NHS and benefits needed more funding.

I can't remember if Labour lied directly or just fudged it

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Fair enough, we know opposition ministers discuss their plans with civil servants before the election but we don't know what data they get access to. It was widely reported the NI cuts were based on unattainable public service cuts and that defence, prisons, LA's, NHS and benefits needed more funding.

I can't remember if Labour lied directly or just fudged it

I think fudge is more accurate.  I guess they didn't rule out putting up various wealth taxes, and it looks like that is what they're going to do. It will probably mean some public services face cuts too, although maybe they will find some fudge to their fiscal rules so they can borrow a bit more too.

Tories would have had to increase some taxes too if they had won, they could probably have found it easier to reverse the NI cuts, but that would be more difficult for Labour.

[steviewevie]

Badenoch in, Braverman out!

[steviewevie]

Today we find out how bad the country's finances are. I am going to go out on a limb and predict they'll be really bad.

[steviewevie]

 

[Nobody Interesting]

35 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Today we find out how bad the country's finances are. I am going to go out on a limb and predict they'll be really bad.

 

If it is £20 billion that really is small................... considering we are fast moving towards debt of £3 trillion which nobody really worries about.

[steviewevie]

17 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

If it is £20 billion that really is small................... considering we are fast moving towards debt of £3 trillion which nobody really worries about.

small or not, it needs filling unless they're going to break their fiscal rules.