UK Politics

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Anyway, Rwanda bill will probably pass this week and suddenly Rwanda will be a safe country to send those horrid illegals.

I think labour Lords said they wouldn't oppose it indefinitely. The govt is in talks with other countries for similar deals: Armenia, Ivory Coast, Costa Rica and Botswana,

[steviewevie]

57 minutes ago, Neil said:

the ones who pointed out corbyn's flaws, jones thought corbyn was a good choice as labour leader and that the press treated him unfairly by talking about his non-achievements.

 

well Guardian is I guess a centre left paper, but has a columnists with a range of opinions from left to right, but obviously most are kind of lefty. The paper has been mostly supportive of Labour, but some times also critical of it's policies and whoever is leader, from Blair to Corbyn to Starmer. I don't remember any particular jounalist or opinion writer who was critical of Corbyn who gets anywhere near the amount of sh*t Owen Jones does..whether for him being critical of Starmer or his pro trans takes etc...but at same time I think Jones kind of is up for it, he's always all over social media, and seems to love an argument and can get in a right strop. I sometimes find him annoying it has to be said, but at same time he is passionate and makes a lot of valid points....as do many of the same people who were critical of Corbyn.

[steviewevie]

42 minutes ago, lazyred said:

I think labour Lords said they wouldn't oppose it indefinitely. The govt is in talks with other countries for similar deals: Armenia, Ivory Coast, Costa Rica and Botswana,

I'd be up for Costa Rica.

[Neil]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

well Guardian is I guess a centre left paper, but has a columnists with a range of opinions from left to right, but obviously most are kind of lefty. The paper has been mostly supportive of Labour, but some times also critical of it's policies and whoever is leader, from Blair to Corbyn to Starmer. I don't remember any particular jounalist or opinion writer who was critical of Corbyn who gets anywhere near the amount of sh*t Owen Jones does..whether for him being critical of Starmer or his pro trans takes etc...but at same time I think Jones kind of is up for it, he's always all over social media, and seems to love an argument and can get in a right strop. I sometimes find him annoying it has to be said, but at same time he is passionate and makes a lot of valid points....as do many of the same people who were critical of Corbyn.

I'm pointing out that they complained about anti-corbyn columnists', they didn't complain about the supportive ones. in the end they were complaining about fair comment.

[steviewevie]

44 minutes ago, Neil said:

I'm pointing out that they complained about anti-corbyn columnists', they didn't complain about the supportive ones. in the end they were complaining about fair comment.

 

doesn't everyone do that? Complain about stuff they don't agree with? That's why everyone apart from the left moan about Owen Jones.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

 

doesn't everyone do that? Complain about stuff they don't agree with? That's why everyone apart from the left moan about Owen Jones.

the corbyn fools thought they had a reasonable and logical point that comment/opinion pieces were talking down good ideas. and not giving them a chance, it was another feature of the bias and anti-left media, there was so little logic in the idea they couldn't apply it logically to owen jones.

 

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

doesn't everyone do that? Complain about stuff they don't agree with? That's why everyone apart from the left moan about Owen Jones.

if we disallow fair comment, the tories can't be criticised.

[steviewevie]

anyway, I can't remember any major complaints about Corbyn policy from anyone...there were some who thought he was a stupid choice for leader because he'd never win, but that changed after 2017 when Labour did a lot better than many expected. There were also some who were critical about the antisemitism thing, especially a couple of the jewish journalists. And then there were some who questioned his ability to do what was needed to win an election, and in the end they were proved right. Some of Labour's economic ideas were popular, nationalising utilities and railways, higher taxes for higher earners, scrapping tuition fees...all that sort of stuff...but they kept f**king up on social and security stuff...dumb reactions to salisbury poisonings, all his pacifist won't push the button thing, saying Churchill was a villain...etc.

Edited April 15 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

Liz Truss not ruling out running for Tory party leader again.

[steviewevie]

unfinished business apparently

[steviewevie]

 

[clarkete]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Liz Truss not ruling out running for Tory party leader again.

 

[lost]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

unfinished business apparently

 

Suggestions the Tories might do a Labour and make it more difficult for members to elect the leader. Might be centrists for all going forward.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

38 minutes ago, lost said:

 

Suggestions the Tories might do a Labour and make it more difficult for members to elect the leader. Might be centrists for all going forward.

 

what I struggle with is when it's freaky frothing tory party members choosing the prime minister.

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

unfinished business apparently

 

The unfinished business includes abolishing the Supreme Court, the human rights act and the OBR.

[lazyred]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

what I struggle with is when it's freaky frothing tory party members choosing the prime minister.

Its the same for all parties, the members aren't  representive of voters. MP's should choose leaders.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, lazyred said:

Its the same for all parties, the members aren't  representive of voters. MP's should choose leaders.

 

I mean, maybe...it's up to them. If they are in opposition and choose a sh*t leader and lose an election, well...tough sh*t.  I just don't think it should be members choosing when it is also for prime minister, I think that should be up to MPs who after all were elected, or have another general election. 

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, lazyred said:

 

The unfinished business includes abolishing the Supreme Court, the human rights act and the OBR.

Definitely the OBR, not sure about the rest. I think Truss was pro immigration, she proper liberal libertarian neolib classical liberal. 

[philipsteak]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Liz Truss not ruling out running for Tory party leader again.

 

Man, I wish I had a fraction of her self confidence

[lazyred]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

I mean, maybe...it's up to them. If they are in opposition and choose a sh*t leader and lose an election, well...tough sh*t.  I just don't think it should be members choosing when it is also for prime minister, I think that should be up to MPs who after all were elected, or have another general election. 

 

That might be better. I was coming from having electable leaders but I agree Prime Ministers should not be picked by members without an election.

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

 

Man, I wish I had a fraction of her self confidence

definitely a victim of echo chambers...probably helped by her recent book publishing  loveins on various maga/qanon gathering in the land of the free...whereas in the real world...

 

[Neil]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

anyway, I can't remember any major complaints about Corbyn policy from anyone...there were some who thought he was a stupid choice for leader because he'd never win, but that changed after 2017

that didn't change when he didn't win.

[Neil]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

anyway, I can't remember any major complaints about Corbyn policy from anyone...there were some who thought he was a stupid choice for leader because he'd never win, but that changed after 2017 when Labour did a lot better than many expected. There were also some who were critical about the antisemitism thing, especially a couple of the jewish journalists. And then there were some who questioned his ability to do what was needed to win an election, and in the end they were proved right. Some of Labour's economic ideas were popular, nationalising utilities and railways, higher taxes for higher earners, scrapping tuition fees...all that sort of stuff...but they kept f**king up on social and security stuff...dumb reactions to salisbury poisonings, all his pacifist won't push the button thing, saying Churchill was a villain...etc.

the comment pices had a habit of pointing out corbyn's flaws - his anti-semitism, his love of terrorists, his support  of putin. his failures of leadership, his failure to gain high office, etc. his lack of involvement in the NI peace deal,  the sorts of truths his fan club hated people to know.

Edited April 15 by Neil

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

the comment pices had a habit of pointing out corbyn's flaws - his anti-semitism, his love of terrorist, his support  of putin. his failures of leadership, his failure to gain high office, etc.

 

ok...maybe they did...but you can't remember who said any of it because maybe the criticism from corbynites was not actually as vitriolic as you think...whereas everyone knows and hates Owen Jones.