UK Politics

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

needs a europe wide solution really...people processed at various entry points..countries taking allotted amounts depending on population size, state of economy etc...but then might start getting more and more coming which would likely increase support for anti immigration populists parties. It's a big problem, and is only going to get worse.

yep for sure but we currently take one of the lowest amounts in Europe , we also have massive issues with a shortage of labour in crucial sectors and actually there is space for them . however I agree that a longer term solution is needed but that comes with closer ties to Europe not further division . 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, lazyred said:

This will be as successful as the war on drugs gangs.

i was thinking that when the war on drugs  kicked off i had heard the names of a few politicians connected to drug importing, always thought it would be too ineffective to catch them and i wonder if there's any politicians  involved in the high profits of the small boats.

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

yep for sure but we currently take one of the lowest amounts in Europe , we also have massive issues with a shortage of labour in crucial sectors and actually there is space for them . however I agree that a longer term solution is needed but that comes with closer ties to Europe not further division . 

 

Yes, so we would take in an allotted amount that may or may not be more than those who currently cross the channel and have their asylum approved, and these people wouldn't need to risk their lives crossing the channel. Still, a hugely complex problem and very easy to come up with simple solutions on a forum.

[Neil]

20 hours ago, mattiloy said:

The practical limitations of having a leader with blind faith in the failed neoliberal economic policies of the 1980s

compared to the impractical possibilities of having blind faith in spending resources you don't have to fail to deliver on the promises you'd made, and the electoral failure that comes from empty grandstanding.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, lazyred said:

This will be as successful as the war on drugs gangs.

yep - need safe routes for drugs as well.

Simple.

[Neil]

6 hours ago, steviewevie said:

so this is where the Tories will be hoping and praying that an improving economy will feed through to voters and help them in November....maybe not enough time...Jan 25 anyone?

the growth is much too small for anyone to feel any benefit 

[lazyred]

15 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

yep for sure but we currently take one of the lowest amounts in Europe , we also have massive issues with a shortage of labour in crucial sectors and actually there is space for them . however I agree that a longer term solution is needed but that comes with closer ties to Europe not further division . 

We can deal with labour shortages with our points based immigration system. Since Brexit we have issued a lot of work visas to people from all over the world. The UK is no better or worse than other European countries in dealing with illegal immigration. The EU is moving towards using third party countries. The far right are expected to make gains on the european elections. Some people, like the poor girl trampled to death in a boat the other week, are coming to Britain because the EU were going to deport them.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

the growth is much too small for anyone to feel any benefit 

yes, but more than was predicted...and when you have growth you can do other things, spend, invest, or cut taxes...

Plus, they have falling inflation...so will stop seeing the silly price rises we have been getting, and interest rates will start to get cut and so will mortgate rates. The economy will probably look a little bit healthier in the second half of the year, and Tories can use that as part of their election campaign, even if a lot of people have already made up their minds that they want them gone.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, but more than was predicted...and when you have growth you can do other things, spend, invest, or cut taxes...

Plus, they have falling inflation...so will stop seeing the silly price rises we have been getting, and interest rates will start to get cut and so will mortgate rates. The economy will probably look a little bit healthier in the second half of the year, and Tories can use that as part of their election campaign, even if a lot of people have already made up their minds that they want them gone.

tories will definitely use the "we've sorted the economy don't let labour screw it up" line

[lost]

6 minutes ago, lazyred said:

 the poor girl trampled to death in a boat the other week, are coming to Britain because the EU were going to deport them.

 

Yep. Labour have already said they will fast-track / reject any application from safe countries. The small boats problem isn't with applications which can be assessed easily hence why no Ukrainians have come here on small boats. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

 

Yep. Labour have already said they will fast-track / reject any application from safe countries. The small boats problem isn't with applications which can be assessed easily hence why no Ukrainians have come here on small boats. 

aren't most people coming on small boats from Afghanistan? seems a simple one to check.

[lost]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

aren't most people coming on small boats from Afghanistan? seems a simple one to check.

 

Iran, Albania, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria are the main ones apparently. Albania is going to be deemed safe under labours plan.

[steviewevie]

Just now, lost said:

 

Iran, Albania, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria are the main ones apparently. Albania is going to be deemed safe under labours plan.

I thought Albania one has already been sorted out...returns policy with Albania set up and numbers have dropped.

I would assume Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria are not deemed safe, not yet anyway...and probably coming from places in Africa...Eritrea and Sudan etc. 

[steviewevie]

[lost]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I thought Albania one has already been sorted out...returns policy with Albania set up and numbers have dropped.

I would assume Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria are not deemed safe, not yet anyway...and probably coming from places in Africa...Eritrea and Sudan etc. 

 

I guess there are different types of safe. Safe as in there is clearly war going on and safe as in individually I maybe in danger due to political beliefs / sexuality etc.. The later is obviously harder to prove.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, lost said:

 

I guess there are different types of safe. Safe as in there is clearly war going on and safe as in individually I maybe in danger due to political beliefs / sexuality etc.. The later is obviously harder to prove.

Yes...so maybe to clear backlog they may need some sort of amnesty and allow people from certain countries or regions to have their asylum fast tracked. Maybe that already happening to certain degree.

[lost]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Yes...so maybe to clear backlog they may need some sort of amnesty and allow people from certain countries or regions to have their asylum fast tracked. Maybe that already happening to certain degree.

Only issue with that is its the opposite of a deterrent  i.e. get into the country by any means and wait for the next amnesty. Its just going to overload the system again in a few months/years

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, lost said:

Only issue with that is its the opposite of a deterrent  i.e. get into the country by any means and wait for the next amnesty. Its just going to overload the system again in a few months/years

well I'm not sure the backlog deterrent is working...it just makes the whole problem more visible, is expensive, and cruel.

[lost]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

well I'm not sure the backlog deterrent is working...it just makes the whole problem more visible, is expensive, and cruel.

 

I don't think the backlog is a deterrent to be honest.

[Guest]

Under Labour's plan, what would happen to failed asylum seekers if there's no flights to Rwanda?

 

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

Under Labour's plan, what would happen to failed asylum seekers if there's no flights to Rwanda?

 

Failed asylum seekers aren't sent to Rwanda under Tory plan, they are sent before asylum processed and they get asylum in Rwanda. Think I got that right. So I assume Labour's is same as current plan for those whose asylum application fails...they are returned (in theory, in practice they also stay and get legal advice and reapply or disappear).

[Nobody Interesting]

If you are fleeing nothing will act as a deterrent other than the UK being worse than where you are fleeing.

Planes to Rwanda will not deter 99.9% of people.
Whatever Labour are saying they will do will not deter 99.9% of people.

There really is nothing that will deter people from leaving their home countries and travelling with just what they can carry in the hope of a safer better life.

When climate change starts to effect those is poor countries and conflicts break out for limited resources then even more will flee looking for a better place to live. The numbers when all this starts to happen will make what is going on now look so small.

The only way to stop 75% of people who are willing to risk their lives by making these journeys is to give them a decent place to live, in safety, without persecution and with prospects for a future. Where there is little or no hope it is instinct to go out and try and find hope and I promise that if the boot was on the other foot most of us would try and find a batter life elsewhere if we had no hope.

So rather than trying to stop the end result of the worlds problems maybe the world needs to realise that to stop it the world needs to be made a better place for everyone and not just some select rich countries at the expense of most others. If there was  a will the world would find a way.

Will that ever happen? Not a chance.
Will those less fortunate just cos they were born somewhere else be pointed at and used for political gain carry on happening? Absolutely.
 

[lost]

I'll happily swap with the Vietnamese and go live in Da Nang

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

yep - need safe routes for drugs as well.

Simple.

If they were to legalise and tax, it would solve much of the illegal migration. Most of the jobs these lads end up in are merely shell businesses made to launder money from the drug trade. The proliferation of these businesses tracks with the booming drug trade and immigration. Every time you pay cash for a pizza, haircut, car wash, renovations- you are inadvertently contributing to it.