UK Politics

[steviewevie]

19 minutes ago, Neil said:

hes not allowed to interfere in disciplinary cases, cos of corbyn.

 

the whip does the disciplinary stuff..he/she reports to the leader.

The NEC do the candidate decision stuff...this is independent from the leader, but in reality they are Starmer's people.

[lazyred]

49 minutes ago, Neil said:

hes not allowed to interfere in disciplinary cases, cos of corbyn.

The disciplinary is over. Abbott is back in the party and eligible to stand.  Its the process for candidate selection now.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

I think he's ok. I don't buy all the funding allegations stuff seriously, maybe I'm naive. Everyone seems to be funded by private health care firms or weapons firms or Israel.

 

Him and Ashworth are the 2 senior Labour politicians I really detest. They both come across as nasty little bullies. Coyle as well but he's just a backbencher, even though as a filthy racist sex pest he should've been kicked out of the party.

 

I think a lot of the accusations of the "friends of Israel" stuff is absolute bullshit and comes from the antisemitic links the left-wing faction are prone to (emphasis prone, not everyone has them). Similarly the stuff about weapons firms. 

 

But with Streeting, whose position is Shadow Health, he keeps on re-referencing how important it is to involve the private sector in the rejuvenation of the NHS. This hasn't been repeated by anyone else in the Labour front bench, including Starmer. The proposals Streeting talks about haven't been ratified in conference, or pledged by Starmer, or any such thing. We obviously haven't seen Labour's manifesto yet, so that will clarify things, but I deeply distrust him explicitly.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

 

Him and Ashworth are the 2 senior Labour politicians I really detest. They both come across as nasty little bullies. Coyle as well but he's just a backbencher, even though as a filthy racist sex pest he should've been kicked out of the party.

 

I think a lot of the accusations of the "friends of Israel" stuff is absolute bullshit and comes from the antisemitic links the left-wing faction are prone to (emphasis prone, not everyone has them). Similarly the stuff about weapons firms. 

 

But with Streeting, whose position is Shadow Health, he keeps on re-referencing how important it is to involve the private sector in the rejuvenation of the NHS. This hasn't been repeated by anyone else in the Labour front bench, including Starmer. The proposals Streeting talks about haven't been ratified in conference, or pledged by Starmer, or any such thing. We obviously haven't seen Labour's manifesto yet, so that will clarify things, but I deeply distrust him explicitly.

 

isn't he just saying that to help clear backlogs they can use gaps in the private sector...which is kind of what they're doing now? It is an inefficient use of money and just puts more public money in private sector, but it is a quick fix to help ease pressures on NHS services until they can be improved. I had a hernia operation last week on the NHS but in a private hospital, still had to wait about 8 months though and I assume would have been a lot longer if waiting for a slot in a NHS hospital. My kid had mental health treatment in a private clinic paid for by NHS, it meant her waiting time was 6 months instead of 2+ years. Plus in terms of media stuff...love him or loath him, Streeting is good at it.

Edited May 29 by steviewevie

[kaosmark2]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

isn't he just saying that to help clear backlogs they can use gaps in the private sector...which is kind of what they're doing now? It is an inefficient use of money and just puts more public money in private sector, but it is a quick fix to help ease pressures on NHS services until they can be improved. I had a hernia operation last week on the NHS but in a private hospital, still had to wait about 8 months though and I assume would have been a lot longer if waiting for a slot in a NHS hospital. My kid had mental health treatment in a private clinic paid for by NHS, it meant her waiting time was 6 months instead of 2+ years. Plus in terms of media stuff...love him or loath him, Streeting is good at it.

 

He's talking about long-term integration as well though, not just short term. The short term is completely understandable and by focusing on that presentation, it softens all the blows. But if there is any long-term integration, or private healthcare sector ties, then it's going to be on him personally, and I think it's quite plausible that he's got these ties. Corruption isn't uniquely Tory, they're just better at it.

 

Streeting is good at media stuff in the same smarmy slick way Cameron was. I really do view them as comparable. I hope that I'm wrong about him, because he's going to be our health secretary for the next 3 years, but I trust him with our health service as much as I'd trust Call me Dave with a pig.

[Blisterpack]

11 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

 

Him and Ashworth are the 2 senior Labour politicians I really detest. They both come across as nasty little bullies. Coyle as well but he's just a backbencher, even though as a filthy racist sex pest he should've been kicked out of the party.

 

I think a lot of the accusations of the "friends of Israel" stuff is absolute bullshit and comes from the antisemitic links the left-wing faction are prone to (emphasis prone, not everyone has them). Similarly the stuff about weapons firms. 

 

But with Streeting, whose position is Shadow Health, he keeps on re-referencing how important it is to involve the private sector in the rejuvenation of the NHS. This hasn't been repeated by anyone else in the Labour front bench, including Starmer. The proposals Streeting talks about haven't been ratified in conference, or pledged by Starmer, or any such thing. We obviously haven't seen Labour's manifesto yet, so that will clarify things, but I deeply distrust him explicitly.

my wife recently had an op at a Spire hospital on the NHS.  It was clearly better than our local hospital, but there was also an undercurrent of known difference between paying and non-paying customers/patients.  I was speaking to one of the nursing staff who said that management were clearly trying to spread a 'don't vote Labour' message because they have shedloads of capacity and they are terrified of their 'product' being diluted by the obvious presence of the plebs.  She said most clinical/care staff are natural Labour voters.  

[Neil]

Saw a comment earlier I can't remember where now. Was along the lines of the hard left still being in control of labour and when they get elected it'll be huge new taxes and unlimited immigration.

[steviewevie]

26 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

 

He's talking about long-term integration as well though, not just short term. The short term is completely understandable and by focusing on that presentation, it softens all the blows. But if there is any long-term integration, or private healthcare sector ties, then it's going to be on him personally, and I think it's quite plausible that he's got these ties. Corruption isn't uniquely Tory, they're just better at it.

 

Streeting is good at media stuff in the same smarmy slick way Cameron was. I really do view them as comparable. I hope that I'm wrong about him, because he's going to be our health secretary for the next 3 years, but I trust him with our health service as much as I'd trust Call me Dave with a pig.

ok, well you're kind of damning him before he has got the gig...because he is one of those young slick well turned out blairite/cameron looking politicians...we'll see. I watched some of the NHS thing he did with Starmer this morning and thought he was good.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

Saw a comment earlier I can't remember where now. Was along the lines of the hard left still being in control of labour and when they get elected it'll be huge new taxes and unlimited immigration.

CCHQ?

[steviewevie]

28 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

my wife recently had an op at a Spire hospital on the NHS.  It was clearly better than our local hospital, but there was also an undercurrent of known difference between paying and non-paying customers/patients.  I was speaking to one of the nursing staff who said that management were clearly trying to spread a 'don't vote Labour' message because they have shedloads of capacity and they are terrified of their 'product' being diluted by the obvious presence of the plebs.  She said most clinical/care staff are natural Labour voters.  

yeah but these plebs filling spare capacity mean more money for them?

[Blisterpack]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

yeah but these plebs filling spare capacity mean more money for them?

they'd prefer a rubbish NHS forcing people to go private.  Labour are talking about cutting that off at the pass. 

 

[kaosmark2]

32 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

my wife recently had an op at a Spire hospital on the NHS.  It was clearly better than our local hospital, but there was also an undercurrent of known difference between paying and non-paying customers/patients.  I was speaking to one of the nursing staff who said that management were clearly trying to spread a 'don't vote Labour' message because they have shedloads of capacity and they are terrified of their 'product' being diluted by the obvious presence of the plebs.  She said most clinical/care staff are natural Labour voters.  

Huh. Anecdotal but still interesting.

 

Care staff kinda naturally are Labour voters anyway. I do wonder if the management are "don't vote Labour" because of something about "diluting the product", or just because they're upper management of a private healthcare firm anyway.

[Blisterpack]

3 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Huh. Anecdotal but still interesting.

 

Care staff kinda naturally are Labour voters anyway. I do wonder if the management are "don't vote Labour" because of something about "diluting the product", or just because they're upper management of a private healthcare firm anyway.

I reckon me spending all day helping myself to the free coffee and packets of biscuits annoyed them as much as anything. 

[kaosmark2]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok, well you're kind of damning him before he has got the gig...because he is one of those young slick well turned out blairite/cameron looking politicians...we'll see. I watched some of the NHS thing he did with Starmer this morning and thought he was good.

I mean, I'm damning him based on what he says himself.

 

He also does the thing of refusing to answer questions he doesn't like and just tells journalists "that's not what people care about" as if he's the arbiter of what people get to ask or care about.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I mean, I'm damning him based on what he says himself.

 

He also does the thing of refusing to answer questions he doesn't like and just tells journalists "that's not what people care about" as if he's the arbiter of what people get to ask or care about.

he's a politician, that's what they do.

Plus, he might be right.

 

I'm liking him more and more as I defend him. Hopefully he'll replace Starmer when he's kicked out in a few years.

 

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I mean, I'm damning him based on what he says himself.

 

He also does the thing of refusing to answer questions he doesn't like and just tells journalists "that's not what people care about" as if he's the arbiter of what people get to ask or care about.

to be fair, all of the parties will have a narrow frame during the election in which they will want all conversation to take place and they will twist questions to allow them to bring their own topics into the discussion. Labour are so far ahead that they really will feel the need more than any of them to stick with that tactic.  I remember seeing Streeting on that sunday morning chat thing with Nick Robinson and he was far less guarded, more natural and genuinely personable. Give him a year or two with a big majority and a few bob to play with and I reckon you might see a move towards a more progressive NHS.  Most of those in the shadow cabinet were probably those who the world saw as Ed Miliband's centre left bedfellows when he won the leadership ahead of his more centrist brother. Corbyn's reign has definitely moved that interpretation further to the centre but the 24 manifesto will look very much like the 2015 one.

[steviewevie]

 

[Neil]

46 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

CCHQ?

its more like a kipper thing i'd say.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Neil said:

its more like a kipper thing i'd say.

Reform says Tories and Labour are both the same, both socialists.

[steviewevie]

 

[sheffinghell]

Just adding a bit in here about use of private hospitals for NHS ops. This has been going on for donkeys years as part of 'waiting list initiatives', first starting under New Labour and expanding massively under the Tories.

 

I have had several rounds of knee treatment in private hospitals as an NHS patient over the last 10-12 years. It's bought as a package, including diagnostics, op and rehab. Invariably you are treated by senior NHS consultants and anaesthetists and the inpatient stay is nice because of the facilities they have.

 

Apparently usage went down during Covid, and is now getting back up to pre-covid levels due to the horrendous waiting lists we have now.

 

Whilst my conscience is conflicted about their use, it does help with wait times, and keeps NHS theatres open for the more complex cases (btw, if you are likely to need ICU, don't have your op in the private sector). The money side of it is invariably a major issue though. I can't see anything changing any time soon, and if anything there will be more NHS/private care as the push to drive down waiting lists accelerates. But, they are businesses, and it's up to them whether they choose to take NHS contracts or not - do date, it would appear they have taken them on wholesale.

 

[kaosmark2]

12 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

to be fair, all of the parties will have a narrow frame during the election in which they will want all conversation to take place and they will twist questions to allow them to bring their own topics into the discussion. Labour are so far ahead that they really will feel the need more than any of them to stick with that tactic.  I remember seeing Streeting on that sunday morning chat thing with Nick Robinson and he was far less guarded, more natural and genuinely personable. Give him a year or two with a big majority and a few bob to play with and I reckon you might see a move towards a more progressive NHS.  Most of those in the shadow cabinet were probably those who the world saw as Ed Miliband's centre left bedfellows when he won the leadership ahead of his more centrist brother. Corbyn's reign has definitely moved that interpretation further to the centre but the 24 manifesto will look very much like the 2015 one.

 

I have more faith in most of the Labour front bench to make positive progressive changes than a lot of people do. I think the manifesto will be a cautious "we won't f**k your mortgage up, we'll reduce NHS waiting times, and we'll do something nasty to young people to make up for the fact we're giving 16yo the vote". The fact that Starmer's "6 pledges" include "cracking down on anti-social behaviour" and nothing about the water companies is my big concern.

 

I think you're right that ideologically, a lot of the shadow cabinet are fairly aligned with Ed Miliband. I have a lot of time and respect for Rachel Reeves, and while I don't like how she's only talking about the cost of things at the moment, not the social value, I do believe she'll be a competent chancellor, and use the position to drive forward positive policies for the country. My only concern about her is that she hasn't recently shown the rhetorical capacity of Gordon Brown to make the compassionate as well as the economic argument for her policies.

 

Streeting is very much the exception to this (along with Ashworth in the campaign team and whips). On top of what I've already mentioned, there was his article about how Labour shouldn't offer hope, when frankly, the country needs to believe things will get better, because it will be 2-4 years before Labour's changes have meaningful effect. On top of this, he's done some hateful rhetoric that I won't go into because it'll bring the abusive bullies out.

[lazyred]

21 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

 

3 of those 4 tipped in the Guardian yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/28/three-labour-names-in-frame-diane-abbott-election

Abbott is doing a good job countering the negative Labour briefing with her own "sources close to" quotes.

 

[Blisterpack]

I struggle with Ashworth; he seems a bit out of his depth in comparison to the rest. Not sure he will get a prime job if anything at all. 

[Blisterpack]

1 minute ago, lazyred said:

 

3 of those 4 tipped in the Guardian yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/28/three-labour-names-in-frame-diane-abbott-election

Abbott is doing a good job countering the negative Labour briefing with her own "sources close to" quotes.

 

Joe Pike at the BBC is apparently now suggesting that he was told that she wouldn't be standing, not necessarily that she would be 'banned' from standing (which was the angle promoted by the Times).  Which sort of ties in with the mutual agreement line, but still begs the question of who leaked it and why?  Neither side gains from that.