UK Politics

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Rumours that Torsten Bell is going to stand for Labour in Swansea West. Would be a good addition, he's a clever bloke.

he isn't Welsh though...

[lost]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Rumours that Torsten Bell is going to stand for Labour in Swansea West. Would be a good addition, he's a clever bloke.

 

I think he came into labour via running a think tank for Ed Milliband which probably puts him more Brownite than Blairite.

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

he isn't Welsh though...

I’m not sure I agree about local connections being necessary . While I think they can help I don’t think we should exclude candidates indefinitely because they grow up in areas where the opposition never lose.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, lost said:

 

I think he came into labour via running a think tank for Ed Milliband which probably puts him more Brownite than Blairite.

not Millibandite?

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I’m not sure I agree about local connections being necessary . While I think they can help I don’t think we should exclude candidates indefinitely because they grow up in areas where the opposition never lose.

it seems to matter to voters, local representative who understands the area etc...but then you end up with a bunch of thick yokel locals in parliament/government and not the best and brightest who are all from London and the home counties.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

it seems to matter to voters, local representative who understands the area etc...but then you end up with a bunch of thick yokel locals in parliament/government and not the best and brightest who are all from London and the home counties.

but I can see how not even being welsh or having any welsh links could be a problem....devolution etc.

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

but I can see how not even being welsh or having any welsh links could be a problem....devolution etc.

Growing up in Wrexham we had an English MP and don’t remember it ever being much of an issue.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Growing up in Wrexham we had an English MP and don’t remember it ever being much of an issue.

well this lot seem to be suggesting it isn't going down too well...

 

Edited May 31 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

[pink_triangle]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

well this lot seem to be suggesting it isn't going down too well...

 

I guess nation Cymru need clinics , I have my doubts what proportion of people in Swansea West spend much time reading it, it’s also not an area where the nationalists are particularly strong. I honestly don’t think many will care. You could stick me or you in that constituency with a red rosette and win easily.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I guess nation Cymru need clinics , I have my doubts what proportion of people in Swansea West spend much time reading it, it’s also not an area where the nationalists are particularly strong. I honestly don’t think many will care. You could stick me or you in that constituency with a red rosette and win easily.

I don't know, I'm extremely unlikeable.

[Nobody Interesting]

2 hours ago, lazyred said:

Tax rises are already in place in the current plans. There are lots of things Labour can do without raising the rates of income tax or VAT. They aren't lying just not telling the whole truth. You support the Greens and I'd argue they don't spell out the the impact of going carbon free.

 

 

 

They have gone into heaps of detail on it and it is all on their website - along side the details of the impact of NOT going carbon free

[pink_triangle]

It does make you wonder how much impact the candidate has at this stage. I consider myself politically engaged but have spent no time looking into the labour candidates views on individual issues. To me in Rushcliffe it’s a simple question conservative or labour and that only leaves one choice for me.

 

Im sure there are situations where the candidate matters and I’m sure Rushcliffe would have turned red in 97 if not for Ken Clarkes profile, but suspect it’s quite rare.

 

 

[Neil]

5 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

its not the schools who'll pay the VAT itll be the parents of the kids.

[steviewevie]

Be interesting to see what this looks like this time next week...

 

[lazyred]

19 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

They have gone into heaps of detail on it and it is all on their website - along side the details of the impact of NOT going carbon free

 

I'm not bashing the Greens in particular just saying they behave the same as the other parties.

 

They have a lot of policies but if they got into Govt there would be trade offs and consequences that aren't spelt out. eg tackling a rural housing crisis but planning would be devolved to local level. Or protecting habitats and wildlife but increasing onshore wind. You can provide more buses but how far would you go in discouraging private cars? 

 

The contradictions are in the target seats. These are  2 of their 4 target seats with constituency profiles from Wikipedia

 

Bristol Central - Based on data from the 2021 census, Electoral Calculus characterises the proposed seat as "Strong Left", with left-wing economic and socially liberal views, high levels of university education and an internationalist outlook including strong opposition to Brexit.[8] Bristol Central was reported to be the most pro-immigration constituency in the United Kingdom

 

Waveney Valley - Electoral Calculus characterises the proposed seat as "Strong Right", with right-wing economic and social views, high home ownership levels and strong support for Brexit.[3]

The seat is a target seat for the Green Party[4] who won half of the council wards in the seat in the 2023 local elections.

 

The Greens will campaign differently in these areas highlighting different policies and not mentioning other policies at all. They won't lie but they won't tell the whole truth. I suspect the Waveney Valley would be the most disappointed and turn against a Green Govt very quickly.

 

 

[Neil]

41 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

They have gone into heaps of detail on it and it is all on their website - along side the details of the impact of NOT going carbon free

they don't say how they'll create enough baseload power when they shut down the nukes.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Be interesting to see what this looks like this time next week...

 

awkward Abbott should get the blame for it not starmer.

[Nobody Interesting]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

they don't say how they'll create enough baseload power when they shut down the nukes.

 

Yes they do.

They detail exactly how they will do it BEFORE they start the phase out of nuclear.

[Nobody Interesting]

7 minutes ago, lazyred said:

 

I'm not bashing the Greens in particular just saying they behave the same as the other parties.

 

They have a lot of policies but if they got into Govt there would be trade offs and consequences that aren't spelt out. eg tackling a rural housing crisis but planning would be devolved to local level. Or protecting habitats and wildlife but increasing onshore wind. You can provide more buses but how far would you go in discouraging private cars? 

 

The contradictions are in the target seats. These are  2 of their 4 target seats with constituency profiles from Wikipedia

 

Bristol Central - Based on data from the 2021 census, Electoral Calculus characterises the proposed seat as "Strong Left", with left-wing economic and socially liberal views, high levels of university education and an internationalist outlook including strong opposition to Brexit.[8] Bristol Central was reported to be the most pro-immigration constituency in the United Kingdom

 

Waveney Valley - Electoral Calculus characterises the proposed seat as "Strong Right", with right-wing economic and social views, high home ownership levels and strong support for Brexit.[3]

The seat is a target seat for the Green Party[4] who won half of the council wards in the seat in the 2023 local elections.

 

The Greens will campaign differently in these areas highlighting different policies and not mentioning other policies at all. They won't lie but they won't tell the whole truth. I suspect the Waveney Valley would be the most disappointed and turn against a Green Govt very quickly.

 

 

 

Yep I get all that but I am now talking about not saying some policies to some people - I am saying about Labour saying NO TAX RISES and then raising them - now that to be is telling lies................................. and people would not forgive that if that ois what they do after going, as they are, to such lengths to say they will not raise them at all.

[fraybentos1]

13 minutes ago, Neil said:

awkward Abbott should get the blame for it not starmer.

It literally says the fieldwork misses most of the Abbott row

[lazyred]

9 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

Yep I get all that but I am now talking about not saying some policies to some people - I am saying about Labour saying NO TAX RISES and then raising them - now that to be is telling lies................................. and people would not forgive that if that ois what they do after going, as they are, to such lengths to say they will not raise them at all.

Labour haven't said no tax rises just ruled out specific ways of doing it. Blair did the same and won 3 elections. The Tories have raised the overall tax level but its not the main reason they are losing.

[mattiloy]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know about hate, but yes they have a different approach. More class based, more blue labourish. But it is the left, Corbyn's lot he really can't stand..sees them as self indulgent ideologues who prefer protest to power etc etc...and he wants them out. I think it will come back and bite them in the bum, but that is the strategy and Starmer obviously believes in this direction, or at least doesn't want to f**k it up considering they are so close to power.

 

The sad thing is that during New Labour, Labour still had their roots firmly grounded in working class politics and the trade union movement. All of that cohort, whilst taking Labour in a different direction, would have been raised in an indelibly marked by the real traditions of the Labour movement.

The same cannot be said of this cohort. This is a party pursuing turbo blairism, made up to a much greater extent of people who grew up during the New Labour era after Labour had distanced itself from the Labour movement.

 

So if the acceptance of Blairism was for many, the act of swallowing a bitter pill and doing what you have to to get into power and maintain power, whilst believing in earnest in the fundamentals of socialism, I’d say nowadays, the party is made up to a far greater extent of people who actually didnt get that second part, and didnt perceive marketisation as a necessary evil. Thats the difference between then and now.

 

And in terms of outcome, it will mean all of the worst parts of Blairism with less concern for helping the worst off.

[steviewevie]

Ugh. Crick should really know better stoking this sh*t...