UK Politics

[steviewevie]

Blimey. That was quite something.

[steviewevie]

Hunt says she's lying, she always knew the Tories were bullshitting the country.

[steviewevie]

I guess the post election cuddly bonhomie is well and truly over.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

[Nobody Interesting]

Tax the wealthy or let some pensioners go cold.

Tough call!!!!

Are Labour the new Nasty Party?

Edited July 29 by Nobody Interesting

[steviewevie]

33 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Tax the wealthy or let some pensioners go cold.

Tough call!!!!

Are Labour the new Nasty Party?

wealthier pensioners.

Tax decisions to come.

[steviewevie]

she's going to do a press conference...where she can do her scary face whilst telling the public over and over that if we can't afford it, we won't do it.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

wealthier pensioners.

Tax decisions to come.

 

So a pensioner on the basic old state pension but with a widowers pension from their deceased husband of £30 a month is wealthy??

Ask yourself, honestly, what your reaction would have been had Hunt, Truss, Braverman or any of the last lot had stood up and announced this. From seeing your reactions previously I would seriously think the honest response would have been one of disgust not one of trying to justify it.

[Nobody Interesting]

and if you still think the cut is OK then contact Martin Lewis to explain why to him:

 

Consumer champion Martin Lewis has hit out at the government scrapping winter fuel payments for those not in receipt of benefits.

The measure is one of a raft announced by new chancellor Rachel Reeves in response to what Labour says is a previously unknown about £20bn black hole in the public finances.

Lewis has responded by pointing out energy prices will rise this winter - and says one group will be hit hardest now...

"The Energy Price Cap is likely to rise 10% this October and stay high across the winter, leaving most energy bills nearly double those pre-crisis, at levels unaffordable for millions.

"Many pensioners eke out the £100 to £300 winter fuel payments to allow them to keep some heating on through the cold months. While there's an argument for ending its universality due to tight national finances, it's being squeezed to too narrow a group – just those on benefits and pension credit. Yet again, those just above the thresholds will be hardest hit."

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

So a pensioner on the basic old state pension but with a widowers pension from their deceased husband of £30 a month is wealthy??

Ask yourself, honestly, what your reaction would have been had Hunt, Truss, Braverman or any of the last lot had stood up and announced this. From seeing your reactions previously I would seriously think the honest response would have been one of disgust not one of trying to justify it.

Err...well...nice hypothetical, I expect I would have thought it was ok. Means testing benefits for pensioners who have done pretty well last few decades is ok with me.

Obviously there will be some who have issue with it.

Personally I just think they should pay more income tax or have to pay NI too, but yes maybe take benefits away from ones who can afford it.

Not long ago you were banging on with some bullshit that wealthy people shouldn't be able to get benefits for more than two children, so whatever.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

and if you still think the cut is OK then contact Martin Lewis to explain why to him:

 

Consumer champion Martin Lewis has hit out at the government scrapping winter fuel payments for those not in receipt of benefits.

The measure is one of a raft announced by new chancellor Rachel Reeves in response to what Labour says is a previously unknown about £20bn black hole in the public finances.

Lewis has responded by pointing out energy prices will rise this winter - and says one group will be hit hardest now...

"The Energy Price Cap is likely to rise 10% this October and stay high across the winter, leaving most energy bills nearly double those pre-crisis, at levels unaffordable for millions.

"Many pensioners eke out the £100 to £300 winter fuel payments to allow them to keep some heating on through the cold months. While there's an argument for ending its universality due to tight national finances, it's being squeezed to too narrow a group – just those on benefits and pension credit. Yet again, those just above the thresholds will be hardest hit."

good for the environment though.

People need to turn their thermostats down.

Poorer pensioners will still get the benefit.

You just want to have a poke because it's labour.

[steviewevie]

The new nasty party 

 

[Nobody Interesting]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Err...well...nice hypothetical, I expect I would have thought it was ok. Means testing benefits for pensioners who have done pretty well last few decades is ok with me.

Obviously there will be some who have issue with it.

Personally I just think they should pay more income tax or have to pay NI too, but yes maybe take benefits away from ones who can afford it.

Not long ago you were banging on with some bullshit that wealthy people shouldn't be able to get benefits for more than two children, so whatever.

 

LOL

I talked about very wealthy people and gave examples of that wealth - above I gave an example of someone you are now calling wealthy. Basic old state pension plus £30 widowers who will now get nothing.

Do you really call that wealthy or have you dug your denial hole that deep you just cannot get out of it now?

[Nobody Interesting]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

good for the environment though.

People need to turn their thermostats down.

Poorer pensioners will still get the benefit.

You just want to have a poke because it's labour.

 

I refer you to my other reply above - so you are OK for some pensioners to have to choose between heating and eating then as this is what it will do to some.

Are you contacting Martin Lewis to tell him he is just having  ago at Labour?

If the Greens had won and they did this I can assure you I would be furious and contacting them as my principals and morals go far beyond any party loyalty. Seems yours don't.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

I refer you to my other reply above - so you are OK for some pensioners to have to choose between heating and eating then as this is what it will do to some.

Are you contacting Martin Lewis to tell him he is just having  ago at Labour?

If the Greens had won and they did this I can assure you I would be furious and contacting them as my principals and morals go far beyond any party loyalty. Seems yours don't.

Yeah right.

[steviewevie]

There's always cut off for benefits, always some who feel they lost out. I expect there will be tweaks. But ultimately giving this benefit to all pensioners is a waste, like giving child benefits to wealthy families is a waste too. 

[Nobody Interesting]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yeah right.

 

I like the way you ignore most of the post and just respond with a childish dismissal of the end part.

Not that it will make any difference but when the Green's won the council where I used to live they put in place a policy they had not announced that I disagreed with.
I made an appointment with the head of the council and met to discuss how this was wrong and how I would help the fight against it - cos my principals and morals know no party loyalty.

If it is wrong then it is wrong and I would have hoped you would not go all Ozanne on us and simply blindly back anything and everything Labour say and do even when it is wrong.

I am still waiting to see your reply to whether you think my pensioner example is wwealthy or not.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

I like the way you ignore most of the post and just respond with a childish dismissal of the end part.

Not that it will make any difference but when the Green's won the council where I used to live they put in place a policy they had not announced that I disagreed with.
I made an appointment with the head of the council and met to discuss how this was wrong and how I would help the fight against it - cos my principals and morals know no party loyalty.

If it is wrong then it is wrong and I would have hoped you would not go all Ozanne on us and simply blindly back anything and everything Labour say and do even when it is wrong.

I am still waiting to see your reply to whether you think my pensioner example is wwealthy or not.

Pensioners have done very well last few decades, there has been a shift of wealth from young to old. So maybe they will have to look at nuanced examples like yours, but overall I am ok with the idea of not all pensioners getting this benefit. 

 

[steviewevie]

This is so unfair. I know some people who are just about managing to send their little darling to the local prep, disgraceful that they will be hit with this by a so called socialist government. They'll probably have to go without their weekly trip to Gail's now.

 

[Ryan1984]

I’m nowhere near intelligent enough to discuss the ins and outs of this and I imagine I’d be furious if the Tories did this but I do think there’s something to be said for the honesty and realism, even if it’s brutal.

 

Makes a change from the past 13 years.

[cellar]

If people who get Pension Credits are still getting the Winter Fuel Payments, then doesn't that mean it's basically the people with a testable income between £11,343.80 and £12,643.80 that are worse off? If they have higher income then they can cover the costs themselves (in theory).

 

Sure it's pretty rubbish for those who might have been expecting the money and planned accordingly... But cuts need to affect somewhere. And that small range surely isn't a massive amount of people? The millions affected are going to be higher incomes.

[steviewevie]

Martin Lewis is not against scrapping the universitality of the benefit, just thinks there should be a different way of measuring it..and he suggests council tax bands..but then will probably throw up a load of other problems too.

We could probably do with a cull of the oldies anyway.

[steviewevie]

16 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

I’m nowhere near intelligent enough to discuss the ins and outs of this and I imagine I’d be furious if the Tories did this but I do think there’s something to be said for the honesty and realism, even if it’s brutal.

 

Makes a change from the past 13 years.

Looks like a bit of redistribution to me... probably more to come in the autumn.

[lazyred]

27 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

LOL

I talked about very wealthy people and gave examples of that wealth - above I gave an example of someone you are now calling wealthy. Basic old state pension plus £30 widowers who will now get nothing.

Do you really call that wealthy or have you dug your denial hole that deep you just cannot get out of it now?

I'm not defending the cut because I disagree with it. But the cliff edge is not as bad as you say.

 

First old basic state pension is 169.50 and pension credit tops this up to 218.15 or 332.95 for couples. Your case should get pension credit unless they have too much savings or some state second pension.

 

Second it any means tested benefit that still qualifies for the allowance not just pension credit. This will include housing benefit, not sure if council tax relief will count.