UK Politics

[steviewevie]

well hopefully with global warming it will be like Spain here soon (unless that N Atlantic current collapses and it gets bloody freezing) 

[Nobody Interesting]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

well hopefully with global warming it will be like Spain here soon (unless that N Atlantic current collapses and it gets bloody freezing) 

 

Another scenario was with the oceans warming, primarily the Atlantic, was that storms would grow quick and move slower and so the UK would experience large storms most of the year with wet and windy conditions even in the summer.......................

 

Welcome to 2024

[clarkete]

 

Edited August 22 by clarkete

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

Another scenario was with the oceans warming, primarily the Atlantic, was that storms would grow quick and move slower and so the UK would experience large storms most of the year with wet and windy conditions even in the summer.......................

 

Welcome to 2024

maybe they'll all cancel each other out.

[steviewevie]

anyway...that youth mobility thing could be part of a negotiation thing with EU, so they're not going to say it's happening yet...

[Nobody Interesting]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

maybe they'll all cancel each other out.

 

or we get one each year on a rotation meaning we can plan for nothing and buildings will only be useable every third year depending how they are built.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

or we get one each year on a rotation meaning we can plan for nothing and buildings will only be useable every third year depending how they are built.

as long as it's consistent then that's ok, I'll do my 90 days in sunny spain every other year.

I'm not so bothered about the climate anymore because I reckon we'll destroy ourselves with nukes before it gets too bad.

[steviewevie]

and actually with the climate thingy...does this government really need to go mental trying to hit this 2030 carbon free grid target when relaxing it to 2035 could save them a lot of money and bother...seeing as even if we went totally to renewables tomorrow will make close to f**k all difference unless the big boys do the same?

Maybe...Sunak...was...right?

[Spuddhism]

The big issue with increasingly erratic and often extreme weather events won't be our comfort levels (or cancelled festivals). It will be the possibility for unexpected and significant crop failures. Then we'll know how serious we should've taken things whilst we had the chance. At that point, I vote that we cull climate change deniers for food. 

Edited August 22 by Spuddhism
Typo

[steviewevie]

Should we go full kilter trying to hit lower carbon use by certain dates which could prove very expensive and be very disruptive and actually without being that consequential when maybe countries of our size and wealth could be helping rapidly developing countries with large populations in Asia/Africa to transition to renewables (or just ask them not to develop so rapidly)?

[Spuddhism]

It's too late for all that. We should start building the protein biscuit factories - think Soylent Green for a blueprint - and start compiling a register of climate change deniers. That'll test the strength of their conviction, the f*ckwits. 

[Nobody Interesting]

52 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and actually with the climate thingy...does this government really need to go mental trying to hit this 2030 carbon free grid target when relaxing it to 2035 could save them a lot of money and bother...seeing as even if we went totally to renewables tomorrow will make close to f**k all difference unless the big boys do the same?

Maybe...Sunak...was...right?

 

If we did that energy prices in the UK would be cut to around 15% of current levels, our air would be clean and health and wealth would improve. Nothing wrong with that at all is there?

So why do we have to wait for others for us to have better healthier, cheaper lives?

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

If we did that energy prices in the UK would be cut to around 15% of current levels, our air would be clean and health and wealth would improve. Nothing wrong with that at all is there?

So why do we have to wait for others for us to have better healthier, cheaper lives?

Because it is very difficult and expensive and bigger picture makes f**k all difference unless China/India/Indonesia do the same. We should do as much as we can, but setting unrealistic unachievable goals maybe hurts more than helps.

[Ryan1984]

9 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

I still can’t fathom how anybody can write about ‘free movement’ and use it as a negative.

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, Ryan1984 said:

I still can’t fathom how anybody can write about ‘free movement’ and use it as a negative.

It was the freedom for people to come in that bothered people. Take back control.

I guess for most people the idea of just going abroad to live and work wasn't a reality, most people don't speak a european language, most didn't feel a need to...it was only for privileged people. What is really mad is the older people living their retirement in Spain or somewhere voting for brexit, dumb as f**k.

Personally I thought it was a great shame, just shuts off possibilities for younger people, for my kid. I kind of liked the idea of living the winter months on a canary island or something when I retired, which I maybe could still do but just wouldn't be so easy and would be more limited.

Ironic thing is how immigration increased once free movement ended anyway, which is I guess why we see the rise of Reform and Labour and Tories talking about brining immigration down...ignoring fact we had an increase in demand cause of covid and the Ukraine situation.

[lost]

Still can't believe it to be honest. 40k net a year from world war 2, Obviously increased to the low 6 figures when the E.Eastern European countries joined the EU, we get the brexit vote with the poorest areas voting to leave due to concerns over low wages and high house prices and then Tories let in 3.5 million over 3 years whilst promising to get it back down to "tens of thousands"

 

You can see why their vote was decimated by reform. They've simply replaced cheap E.European labour with cheap labour from India, Nigeria and Pakistan. What exactly did they think was going to happen?

 

Edited August 23 by lost

[Nobody Interesting]

13 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Because it is very difficult and expensive and bigger picture makes f**k all difference unless China/India/Indonesia do the same. We should do as much as we can, but setting unrealistic unachievable goals maybe hurts more than helps.

 

You missed my point - forget the big picture. My question was why should we not create cheap clean energy for ourselves regardless. Cheap and helathy has to be good right? At least we can spend our money getting pissed while the world burns.

Shift all oil and gas subsidies to green energy and it is not expensive at all to build - just need the will to do it.

[Nobody Interesting]

9 hours ago, Ryan1984 said:

I still can’t fathom how anybody can write about ‘free movement’ and use it as a negative.

 

Some Leavers genuinely thought we could stop FM for them coming here whilst keeping it for ourselves!!

[Nobody Interesting]

27 minutes ago, lost said:

Still can't believe it to be honest. 40k net a year from world war 2, Obviously increased to the low 6 figures when the E.Eastern European countries joined the EU, we get the brexit vote with the poorest areas voting to leave due to concerns over low wages and high house prices and then Tories let in 3.5 million over 3 years whilst promising to get it back down to "tens of thousands"

 

You can see why their vote was decimated by reform. They've simply replaced cheap E.European labour with cheap labour from India, Nigeria and Pakistan. What exactly did they think was going to happen?

 

 

but if we stop this 'cheap' labour from overseas which really is not that cheap at all will salaries really all rise loads.

Look at inflation where we had to not have wage rises else it would drive more inflation - so how will the UK create all these high wage jobs if we get ride of overseas workers without prices of everything rocketing and the economy collapsing?

No business will simply increase salaries to attract UK workers - they want their profit!

 

Also, in Wales social care jobs were advertised at a higher rate for 6 months and they go no applicants - so went abroad and got loads who they paid at the higher rate

Edited August 23 by Nobody Interesting

[lost]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

but if we stop this 'cheap' labour from overseas which really is not that cheap at all will salaries really all rise loads.

Look at inflation where we had to not have wage rises else it would drive more inflation - so how will the UK create all these high wage jobs if we get ride of overseas workers without prices of everything rocketing and the economy collapsing?

No business will simply increase salaries to attract UK workers - they want their profit!

 

Also, in Wales social care jobs were advertised at a higher rate for 6 months and they go no applicants - so went abroad and got loads who they paid at the higher rate

 

Thats how the working class see a country though. Bacially a union, a protective ring around the workers to project pay and living standards. They used to be with labour when they were anti-EU in the 1980's, then moved onto the Tories and now Reform.

 

There are obviously issues having low/no migration look at Japan but I guess they see it as the least worst solution.

Edited August 23 by lost

[Nobody Interesting]

8 minutes ago, lost said:

 

Thats how the working class see a country though. Bacially a union, a protective ring around the workers to project pay and living standards. They used to be with labour when they were anti-EU in the 1980's, then moved onto the Tories and now Reform.

 

There are obviously issues having low/no migration look at Japan but I guess they see it as the least worst solution.

 

Someone needs an honest conversation with people - a really honest one.

In 50 years time the numbers of retired people will be huge and the numbers of young at the lowest level perhaps ever compared. 

We have simple choices. Migrants to do work or people who want to retire having to work more and the young likely having to work til they are 80 or older if they get that far. Those choices will allow us to simply 'stand still'. If we want more and better services then we will need even more money....................... and where is that coming from?

Businesses are already working on this problem as they know it is coming. Their solution is to require less workers by using AI but less workers means less tax receipts and so the problem for government remains but businesses and their profits are sorted.

So who will have the conversation about taxing AI or increasing business taxes for firms that reduce human staff or something like that and who will be honest with the people about how totally f**ked the UK is without migrant workers?

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

You missed my point - forget the big picture. My question was why should we not create cheap clean energy for ourselves regardless. Cheap and helathy has to be good right? At least we can spend our money getting pissed while the world burns.

Shift all oil and gas subsidies to green energy and it is not expensive at all to build - just need the will to do it.

we should...but doing it by 2030 is going to cost a lot more and be more disruptive than doing it be 2035.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

we should...but doing it by 2030 is going to cost a lot more and be more disruptive than doing it be 2035.

 

You need to talk to all the economic groups that say the longer we leave it the more it will cost then as you seem to have different information.

[steviewevie]

22 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

Someone needs an honest conversation with people - a really honest one.

In 50 years time the numbers of retired people will be huge and the numbers of young at the lowest level perhaps ever compared. 

We have simple choices. Migrants to do work or people who want to retire having to work more and the young likely having to work til they are 80 or older if they get that far. Those choices will allow us to simply 'stand still'. If we want more and better services then we will need even more money....................... and where is that coming from?

Businesses are already working on this problem as they know it is coming. Their solution is to require less workers by using AI but less workers means less tax receipts and so the problem for government remains but businesses and their profits are sorted.

So who will have the conversation about taxing AI or increasing business taxes for firms that reduce human staff or something like that and who will be honest with the people about how totally f**ked the UK is without migrant workers?

I think people see it as immigration putting further strain on already struggling public services and a perceived lack of housing.

Obviously NHS and social care would collapse without immigrants and they are usually younger and fitter so demand is reduced, but then they stay and have kids, and then grow old themselves etc. The housing thing can be fixed by building more.

Anyway, I actually don't think most people have a problem with immigration as long as numbers aren't silly...it's the seemingly lack of control or management of it that seems to upset them.

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

You need to talk to all the economic groups that say the longer we leave it the more it will cost then as you seem to have different information.

 

Policy Exchange - Decarbonising the Grid

• Net Zero 2030 scenario, compared to Business as Usual:
  • £15.6bn/year of additional investment until 2030 (a total of £93.5b)
  • £4.4bn/year of additional investment from 2031 – 2035 (a total of £22.5bn).
  • Total additional investment of £116bn over next 11 years.
• Net Zero 2035 scenario compared to Business as Usual:
  • £8.2bn/year of additional investment until 2030 (a total of £49.3b)
  • £11.1bn/year of additional investment from 2031 – 2035 (a total of £55.3bn)
  • Total additional investment of £104.6bn over next 11 years.

they could use those extra billions to help out other countries to transition, those with bigger carbon footprints. It's a global problem.