UK Politics

[lost]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Policy Exchange - Decarbonising the Grid

• Net Zero 2030 scenario, compared to Business as Usual:
  • £15.6bn/year of additional investment until 2030 (a total of £93.5b)
  • £4.4bn/year of additional investment from 2031 – 2035 (a total of £22.5bn).
  • Total additional investment of £116bn over next 11 years.
• Net Zero 2035 scenario compared to Business as Usual:
  • £8.2bn/year of additional investment until 2030 (a total of £49.3b)
  • £11.1bn/year of additional investment from 2031 – 2035 (a total of £55.3bn)
  • Total additional investment of £104.6bn over next 11 years.

they could use those extra billions to help out other countries to transition, those with bigger carbon footprints. It's a global problem.

 

Not sure how that would work but yes. When people say an energy transition is taking place its really an energy expansion. Coal is growing in Asia at a quicker pace than fossil fuels are being replaced in the west.

Edited August 23 by lost

[steviewevie]

Energy bills rising will make the winter fuel payment change even more unpopular... maybe govt will have to uturn or change it before gets too hot 

[steviewevie]

Metaphorically hot, not literally!

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, lost said:

 

Thats how the working class see a country though. Bacially a union, a protective ring around the workers to project pay and living standards. They used to be with labour when they were anti-EU in the 1980's, then moved onto the Tories and now Reform.

 

There are obviously issues having low/no migration look at Japan but I guess they see it as the least worst solution.

I think that's pretty patronising and largely inaccurate. It's how some people do.

[lost]

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think that's pretty patronising and largely inaccurate. It's how some people do.

 

 I'm pretty sure looking at the numbers at the time the brexit vote was highest in the poorest areas. Generally what is known as "the red wall" Its these votes Boris took from labour to win in 2019.

 

My seat was basically ground zero for the miners strike (the Beeb were camped out in one of my locals) and turned tory for the first time in 90 years.

Edited August 23 by lost

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

I think age was big factor...towns with older voters vs cities with younger voters...

[Nobody Interesting]

4 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

Policy Exchange - Decarbonising the Grid

• Net Zero 2030 scenario, compared to Business as Usual:
  • £15.6bn/year of additional investment until 2030 (a total of £93.5b)
  • £4.4bn/year of additional investment from 2031 – 2035 (a total of £22.5bn).
  • Total additional investment of £116bn over next 11 years.
• Net Zero 2035 scenario compared to Business as Usual:
  • £8.2bn/year of additional investment until 2030 (a total of £49.3b)
  • £11.1bn/year of additional investment from 2031 – 2035 (a total of £55.3bn)
  • Total additional investment of £104.6bn over next 11 years.

they could use those extra billions to help out other countries to transition, those with bigger carbon footprints. It's a global problem.

 

We have had this conversation before and like before when I gave you lots of other links to costs showing it would cost more we agreed to disagree.

So let's save the time and do that again....................... especially as your numbers are just for decarbonising the grid and not for getting to net zero with all that entails with stuff being done as soon as possible.

[steviewevie]

17 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

We have had this conversation before and like before when I gave you lots of other links to costs showing it would cost more we agreed to disagree.

So let's save the time and do that again....................... especially as your numbers are just for decarbonising the grid and not for getting to net zero with all that entails with stuff being done as soon as possible.

net zero date is 2050 or something..wasn't talking about that.

[Nobody Interesting]

28 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

net zero date is 2050 or something..wasn't talking about that.

 

I know, but I was and I was talking about the stuff we should do earlier to get there and not put off. all of it not just decarbonising the grid which is a small part of the whole picture as the expansion of the grid is needed quite urgently to be able to do anything.

[steviewevie]

3 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

I know, but I was and I was talking about the stuff we should do earlier to get there and not put off. all of it not just decarbonising the grid which is a small part of the whole picture as the expansion of the grid is needed quite urgently to be able to do anything.

you were talking about costs and energy prices and stuff...so much goalpost moving I can't keep up. 

 

Anyway, fair point that with 2050 net zero taget then doing as much as poss up front could make a difference, at same time it could prove overly expensive and disruptive trying to meet this 2030 target and then Labour lose and Tories win because of it and then 2050 or whatever is up in smoke.

Plus, to make the point one more time, we can drag ourselves kicking and screaming to be carbon neutral but if China/India/Indonesia/Nigeria/USA/etc don't then the climate is still f**ked and the climate doesn't know about borders.

[steviewevie]

Anyway, labour have already lost the next election.

Never. Ever. f**k. With. Pensioners.

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

are we at the point already where labour wish they hadn't won.

[Nobody Interesting]

55 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

you were talking about costs and energy prices and stuff...so much goalpost moving I can't keep up. 

 

Anyway, fair point that with 2050 net zero taget then doing as much as poss up front could make a difference, at same time it could prove overly expensive and disruptive trying to meet this 2030 target and then Labour lose and Tories win because of it and then 2050 or whatever is up in smoke.

Plus, to make the point one more time, we can drag ourselves kicking and screaming to be carbon neutral but if China/India/Indonesia/Nigeria/USA/etc don't then the climate is still f**ked and the climate doesn't know about borders.

 

and to make my point one more time what is wrong with cheap energy and clean air regardless of what others do? At least we can have healthier lungs and more money to enjoy life while we can.
 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

and to make my point one more time what is wrong with cheap energy and clean air regardless of what others do? At least we can have healthier lungs and more money to enjoy life while we can.
 

So you're talking about 2030 now?

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

So you're talking about 2030 now?

 

No I am talking about us doing things while the other big polluters do not and doing it as quick as we can - exactly as each and every post on the subject has said.

I do notice you seem reluctant to answer the question I keep posing on the matter though and recall at the start I did say we have had this discussion before and we agreed to disagree so let's do that shall we?

[Nobody Interesting]

56 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Anyway, labour have already lost the next election.

Never. Ever. f**k. With. Pensioners.

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/pensioner-90-says-he-will-have-to-shower-once-a-week-as-government-withdraws-fuel-payment-and-energy-bills-go-up-13201790

 

This is just one of hundreds of similar stories I have read.

Anyone who thinks Labour have done the right thing in the right way with this policy would to me seem to have a huge lack of empathy.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

No I am talking about us doing things while the other big polluters do not and doing it as quick as we can - exactly as each and every post on the subject has said.

I do notice you seem reluctant to answer the question I keep posing on the matter though and recall at the start I did say we have had this discussion before and we agreed to disagree so let's do that shall we?

the question of clean energy here? You mean cars? Is that same thing? I am talking about the whole carbon free grid by 2030 thing...renewables and nuclear and pylons and heat pumps and all that. Yes it would be nice to have clean air, but the whole point of spending billions and billions isn't clean air, it is climate change...and climate change is not going to stop because of one medium size country like us cutting out carbon use (especially when we're just offloading it elsewhere), it is a global problem and that means wealthier countries pooling resources to fix it globally, not just so we can feel good about ourselves.

Basically I am just talking about money. There is only so much. Public services are f**ked. A lot of people don't want disruption and higher costs. Transition is difficult. It is cheaper to do this initial transition by 2035 instead of 2030. If labour f**ks this up it will be Tories led by Badenoch or Jenrick or someone and then it will be in the bin.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

https://news.sky.com/story/pensioner-90-says-he-will-have-to-shower-once-a-week-as-government-withdraws-fuel-payment-and-energy-bills-go-up-13201790

 

This is just one of hundreds of similar stories I have read.

Anyone who thinks Labour have done the right thing in the right way with this policy would to me seem to have a huge lack of empathy.

I think they're doing the right thing...just needs a bit of tweaking.

[Nobody Interesting]

13 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I think they're doing the right thing...just needs a bit of tweaking.

 

I don't deny it needs removing from the wealthy but sadly it shows the instincts and lack of overall thought that went into the original decision. It really does not bode well for other decisions that will be made and announced on 30th October.

[Nobody Interesting]

If 'we' still believe that children are our future then government really needs to get on this and sort out the lives of our youth. They need a future and we need them to build our futures and yet when cuts come again, which looks likely, youth services are often one of the first to get cut.

This article makes depressing reading.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/articles/cz55mjj4rlgo

"New figures suggest that 12.2% of all young people aged 16 to 24 were Neet during this time.

Young people not in employment can be:

• unemployed - actively seeking work

• economically inactive - not seeking work

About two-thirds of Neets (66%) fall into the economically inactive category."

[steviewevie]

8 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

If 'we' still believe that children are our future then government really needs to get on this and sort out the lives of our youth. They need a future and we need them to build our futures and yet when cuts come again, which looks likely, youth services are often one of the first to get cut.

This article makes depressing reading.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/articles/cz55mjj4rlgo

"New figures suggest that 12.2% of all young people aged 16 to 24 were Neet during this time.

Young people not in employment can be:

• unemployed - actively seeking work

• economically inactive - not seeking work

About two-thirds of Neets (66%) fall into the economically inactive category."

some of the best years of my life were the economically inactive ones.

[steviewevie]

Nice bit of overreach...I guess they want that fight..all very late 70s... maybe we'll get another cool decade like the 80s to follow.

 

[steviewevie]