UK Politics

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

When tRuss did her ill fated budget the financial markets collapsed........

Yet since then growth has stayed stagnant and now we are in recession.
Also borrowing is higher as % of GDP than it was then
Tax cuts announced in October and now are more than those tRuss announced.

and yet financial markets seem happy.

Is the the reason it all went to pot in Sept 22 that there was no OBR report with the budget and nothing much else?

It all seems rather odd to me

yes, no OBR report...and they just said they were going to keep cutting all these taxes paid for by borrowing and it would lead to growth please just take our word for it. They had only been in office for a few weeks, all felt a bit too radical...not sensible as they like to say...and maybe a bit unhinged

But ultimately who knows why the markets reacted like they did...they're millions of individual decisions based on the data that they see...and I guess they got spooked. Maybe they're all woke communists.

But this government have been there for a while, they have the OBR, and at moment it is a fudge but the numbers add up.

Edited March 6, 2024 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Are they really THAT SCARED of anything connected with tax rises?

seems like it.

[steviewevie]

have to remember that Labour usually lose....and that is often because they are seen as reckless with the economy and people's money. Never underestimate the power of selfish greed. In the end we're just a bunch of savage apes (well, you lot are, I'm above all that).

[Nobody Interesting]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, no OBR report...and they just said they were going to keep cutting all these taxes paid for by borrowing and it would lead to growth please just take our word for it. They had only been in office for a few weeks, all felt a bit too radical...not sensible as they like to say...and maybe a bit unhinged

But ultimately who knows why the markets reacted like they did...they're millions of individual decisions based on the data that they see...and I guess they got spooked. Maybe they're all woke communists.

But this government have been there for a while, they have the OBR, and at moment it is a fudge but the numbers add up.

add up to higher taxes and less spending on services..........................................

Where is all the money?

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

add up to higher taxes and less spending on services..........................................

Where is all the money?

some fiscal headroom plus money from rising taxes due to fiscal drag plus non dom etc plus some future unspecified spending cuts.

something like that.

[steviewevie]

.

Edited March 6, 2024 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

at least this budget was bad for pensioners...so that's good cause we hate them, right?

[steviewevie]

 

[Neil]

54 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

When tRuss did her ill fated budget the financial markets collapsed........

Yet since then growth has stayed stagnant and now we are in recession.
Also borrowing is higher as % of GDP than it was then
Tax cuts announced in October and now are more than those tRuss announced.

and yet financial markets seem happy.

Is the the reason it all went to pot in Sept 22 that there was no OBR report with the budget and nothing much else?

It all seems rather odd to me

truss announced cuts without a way to cover for the lost income - not even from extra borrowing.

your bank manager would go ape if you committed to extra spending without a way to finance it.

[Neil]

43 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

add up to higher taxes and less spending on services..........................................

Where is all the money?

you weren't listening, extra spending.

[Neil]

5 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Dave Rowntree (Blur) has been selected as Labour candidate for Mid Sussex.

Tom Gray (Gomez) was selected as the Labour candidate for the Brighton Pavilion constituency.

its like blur vs oasis all over again!

[steviewevie]

All this getting rid of national insurance bollocks flying around

 

[Ryan1984]

58 minutes ago, Neil said:

Tom Gray (Gomez) was selected as the Labour candidate for the Brighton Pavilion constituency.

its like blur vs oasis all over again!

Bring It On.

[steviewevie]

[kaosmark2]

4 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Tax isn’t a bad thing at all but when the Tories try to claim they are cutting taxes it’s good to point out that they actually aren’t. 

But this is exactly my point, the phrasing and framing of it isn't "the tories are lying to you" it's "the tories aren't cutting your taxes", with the exact framing of "tax cuts are a good thing and you should want them to do it".

The framing needs to be "the tories are making your life worse" "the tax cuts they're claiming aren't making your life better". It's not about whether it's actual tax cuts or not, it's that it's ceding the narrative of "tax vs spend" to the tories in the "tax cuts good, spending bad".

[Guest]

4 hours ago, steviewevie said:

have to remember that Labour usually lose....and that is often because they are seen as reckless with the economy and people's money.

Agreed. No Labour government has ever left office with unemployment less than when they came to power.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Neil said:

your bank manager would go ape if you committed to extra spending without a way to finance it.

I know. God knows I've tried.

[Neil]

if you listened to the snp today you might have thought they'd been hordes of EU immigrants heading to Scotland before Brexit, and brexit stopped it happening. no.

[Neil]

Need to keep an eye on Tories saying they want to end national insurance payments. Cos they'll also steal your pension.

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

But this is exactly my point, the phrasing and framing of it isn't "the tories are lying to you" it's "the tories aren't cutting your taxes", with the exact framing of "tax cuts are a good thing and you should want them to do it".

The framing needs to be "the tories are making your life worse" "the tax cuts they're claiming aren't making your life better". It's not about whether it's actual tax cuts or not, it's that it's ceding the narrative of "tax vs spend" to the tories in the "tax cuts good, spending bad".

it would be nice if someone could be straight with the public....trouble is it gets a bit confusing....fiscal rules and obr forecasts etc

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it would be nice if someone could be straight with the public....trouble is it gets a bit confusing....fiscal rules and obr forecasts etc

That’s because the public regularly miss-understand public finances due to the media/Tories. The public genuinely feel that the U.K. is running out of money when we aren’t so believe we have to ‘balance the books’ and that Labour are irresponsible with public money. Labour can’t be straight with the public because of that so they have to tiptoe around this to make the public believe they will be responsible. 

[steviewevie]

anyway...it's a sh*t sandwich for Labour....Tories get some good press for cutting taxes on working people...partially use that non dom thing....and Labour now need to find 20bn from somewhere....unless Tories get in of course!

[lost]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

it would be nice if someone could be straight with the public....trouble is it gets a bit confusing....fiscal rules and obr forecasts etc

The narrative always has to be the other side is to blame and as we had both sides supporting shutting down the economy and dropping £400bn during covid they will never tell the public the truth.

[steviewevie]

42 minutes ago, lost said:

The narrative always has to be the other side is to blame and as we had both sides supporting shutting down the economy and dropping £400bn during covid they will never tell the public the truth.

..or the fact that after years of austerity the country needs to face the fact that we need to put more money in to pay for it...and that means higher taxes.

[Nobody Interesting]

Now that media and others are talking about merging NI and Income Tax I have rethought my support for it.

Not only would pensioners be worse off as they do not pay NI but do pay Income Tax but in all the discussions not much if anything has been talked about on the Employers NI part.

If they merge the taxes, ie scrap NI, then businesses stop paying this but it is not replaced unless a new tax is added. Seems a great way to get business off the tax hook and put more on people already struggling....... like the Tories like to do.

Then you get the 'qualifying years' for State Pension, how would that work?

Don't get me wrong, I would like one simple tax but to get to that the entire system needs starting again otherwise if will create a right old mess and likely the poorest will take the burden.