International Politics

[steviewevie]

Also...the fact that back in January the ICJ ruled that it was plausible that Israel was carrying out genocide and that Israel should do everything in their power to prevent genocide against the Gazans which Israel just completely ignored will likely be a factor.

But yes it may never conclude, there have been many accusations of genocide since 48, and as doogie says only 3 have been officially recognised.

[lazyred]

13 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Just make sure you remember this, when it finally goes to court and history confirms it as a genocide- you’ll have been here, defending a genocide, giving it the both sides treatment and downplaying it and I think you should ask yourself why that is.

The both sides treatment is from the ICC who issued a warrant against the leader of Hamas for murder, rape and kidnap. 

The warrant against Netanyahu is for starvation and murder. These relate to. withholding aid and specific incidents where civilians died. They are not against Isreal's right to use force to rescue people or remove Hamas to prevent further attacks. 

Neither warrant mentions genocide. 

 

13 hours ago, mattiloy said:

The thing about human rights is that everyone has the same ones. Neither you nor anyone else gets to decide the degree to which different people have them

No one here is saying anything else. 

[lazyred]

31 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Isreal is not trying to destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. 

Genocide would be intending to kill all Palestinians in Isreal and the West Bank.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Isreal is not trying to destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. 

Genocide would be intending to kill all Palestinians in Isreal and the West Bank.

Not sure they can use that as an argument...not all Palestinians live in Gaza.

(plus, been plenty of atrocities in West Bank to throw in there if they want).

[lazyred]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Not sure they can use that as an argument...not all Palestinians live in Gaza.

(plus, been plenty of atrocities in West Bank to throw in there if they want).

Atrocities yes, war crimes probably, genocide no. There is no intention to destroy all Palestinians. 

 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Atrocities yes, war crimes probably, genocide no. There is no intention to destroy all Palestinians. 

 

Doesn't have to be all to fit the definition....in whole or in part.

And anyway, the group in this definition could be Gazans.

[lazyred]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Doesn't have to be all to fit the definition....in whole or in part.

And anyway, the group in this definition could be Gazans.

The definition is destroy. If Hamas hadn't attacked on Oct 7 then Isreal would have carried on with containment. If Hamas stand down and  release the hostages Isreal would act differently. The fact that ceasefire negotiations are progressing shows Isreal will accept a solution other than killing everyone. 

If you want to accuse Isreal there is plenty of stuff to choose from. Using words like Genocide and Holocaust is a deliberate way of denying Isreal's right to exist. 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by lazyred
spelling mistakes

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, lazyred said:

The definition is destroy. If Hamas hadn't attacked on Oct 7 then Isreal would have carried on with containment. If Hamas stand down and  release the hostages Isreal would act differently. The fact that ceasefire negotiations are progressing shows Isreal will accept a solution other than killing everyone. 

If you want to accuse Isreal there is plenty of stuff to choose from. Using words like Genocide and Holocaust is a deliberate way of denying Isreal's right to exist. 

 

ok, well...take that up with the ICJ. These are all excuses or reasons that will be given by Israel for the 45k dead Gazans and destruction of most of it's infrastructure and the limiting of aid getting in..we'll see what decision they make. Maybe they'll say it's all Hamas' fault.