International Politics

[Skip997]

9 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I’d say the ratio of operative:civilian deaths, the fact that the numbers killed in 2024 are around 15k - many of whom will be combatants, including high profile ones- means that it is a war. One that should have ended some time ago and hasn’t for reasons that suit both sides, but a war nevertheless. 

15k? 
 

Civilians or combatants? Either way I think this figure is false. 

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Human beings have never lived in peace sadly. War does shape the world. I wish that was not the case but there you go. 

And here we go again. We’ve always had war so we always will.

 

Was it Joan Baez that said something along the lines of “if killing is natural, then why do men have to be trained to kill?”

[Blisterpack]

13 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

15k? 
 

Civilians or combatants? Either way I think this figure is false. 

Just checked. This time last year the figure was 29k. Now 47, so yes you are right it is 18k this year, not 15k. 
combatant deaths are difficult to tell overall, only Hamas knows for sure really but even the UN says it is at least 18k but likely more. 

[Blisterpack]

Just now, Blisterpack said:

Just checked. This time last year the figure was 29k. Now 47, so yes you are right it is 18k this year, not 15k. 
combatant deaths are difficult to tell overall, only Hamas knows for sure really but even the UN says it is at least 18k but likely more. 

The 47k is the overall figure for fatalities - Hamas figures. 

[Blisterpack]

46 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

And here we go again. We’ve always had war so we always will.

 

Was it Joan Baez that said something along the lines of “if killing is natural, then why do men have to be trained to kill?”

It’s a sad inevitability. I don’t like it any more than you. 

[Skip997]

Just now, Blisterpack said:

It’s a sad inevitability. I don’t like it any more than you. 

It’s only an “inevitability” because we allow it to be so.

 

”what if war broke out and no one turned up” Two Tribes - Frankie Goes to Hollywood 

[Blisterpack]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

It’s only an “inevitability” because we allow it to be so.

 

”what if war broke out and no one turned up” Two Tribes - Frankie Goes to Hollywood 

Large parts of the Middle East were forged from 20th century wars. UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain…. None existed in 1900. Only the Jewish one seems to get people’s backs up for some reason. The one where 50% of the worlds Jews live and which has the absolute support of over 90% of those Jews who live elsewhere. 

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Large parts of the Middle East were forged from 20th century wars. UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain…. None existed in 1900. Only the Jewish one seems to get people’s backs up for some reason. The one where 50% of the worlds Jews live and which has the absolute support of over 90% of those Jews who live elsewhere. 

Where did that come from?

 

🧐

[steviewevie]

23 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Large parts of the Middle East were forged from 20th century wars. UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain…. None existed in 1900. Only the Jewish one seems to get people’s backs up for some reason. The one where 50% of the worlds Jews live and which has the absolute support of over 90% of those Jews who live elsewhere. 

This is all true...and it is a particular issue with Israel...but again again it does not make them immune from any accusation of war crimes or genocide. 

[Blisterpack]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

This is all true...and it is a particular issue with Israel...but again again it does not make them immune from any accusation of war crimes or genocide. 

I agree. Previous Israeli leaders have been more conciliatory and open to negotiation with their neighbours than Netanyahu though and they have also faced constant attack from Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis etc as well as facing the existential threat to their nation from Iran. They have had to resist and fight back and keep their people safe. I often wonder how their critics think they should do it. It’s urban warfare, fighting an enemy with no uniform. As I say, I think Netanyahu have been shown up as a poor military strategist and has been at the wheel for the worst breach of security in the history of Israel. He is useless but left wing Israeli leaders have had no success in dealing with their enemies either. Calling them

all ‘genocidal’ makes no sense though, and Netanyahu isn’t the first to be called it. 

[steviewevie]

35 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I agree. Previous Israeli leaders have been more conciliatory and open to negotiation with their neighbours than Netanyahu though and they have also faced constant attack from Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis etc as well as facing the existential threat to their nation from Iran. They have had to resist and fight back and keep their people safe. I often wonder how their critics think they should do it. It’s urban warfare, fighting an enemy with no uniform. As I say, I think Netanyahu have been shown up as a poor military strategist and has been at the wheel for the worst breach of security in the history of Israel. He is useless but left wing Israeli leaders have had no success in dealing with their enemies either. Calling them

all ‘genocidal’ makes no sense though, and Netanyahu isn’t the first to be called it. 

Maybe accept that Palestinians deserve some self determination would be a start... don't support a terrorist group just because they aren't Fatah.. do better at keeping borders secure...and realise that you can't just bomb and kill away the problem.

[Blisterpack]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Maybe accept that Palestinians deserve some self determination would be a start... don't support a terrorist group just because they aren't Fatah.. do better at keeping borders secure...and realise that you can't just bomb and kill away the problem.

There have been several attempts at finding a framework that involves Palestinian self-determination. Begin, Rabin, Barak… all had a go with the support of the Israeli people. Ultimately it required recognition of the Israeli state and the Arab leaders just couldn’t do it. I think they will now but it has taken bloodshed that they shouldn’t have allowed. 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

There have been several attempts at finding a framework that involves Palestinian self-determination. Begin, Rabin, Barak… all had a go with the support of the Israeli people. Ultimately it required recognition of the Israeli state and the Arab leaders just couldn’t do it. I think they will now but it has taken bloodshed that they shouldn’t have allowed. 

Yeah extremists from both sides always banjaxed it...and now they're in charge. Don't think any closer to a Palestinian state, seems harder than ever. Gaza is wrecked, West Bank a mess.

[Blisterpack]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yeah extremists from both sides always banjaxed it...and now they're in charge. Don't think any closer to a Palestinian state, seems harder than ever. Gaza is wrecked, West Bank a mess.

I actually think it’s close. Netanyahu will not be re-elected and the rest of the Middle East is fed up of conflict. And Iran is losing influence. ‘Peace’ is a stretch but I think actual conflict will end soon. And Trump will take credit. 

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, Blisterpack said:

I actually think it’s close. Netanyahu will not be re-elected and the rest of the Middle East is fed up of conflict. And Iran is losing influence. ‘Peace’ is a stretch but I think actual conflict will end soon. And Trump will take credit. 

yes may well be a ceasefire of sorts...but what comes after. Gaza needs to be rebuilt, who's paying for that? Big question is what comes next. Do Hamas retain control? Does Israel stay in Gaza? As for a Palestinian state, I don't know. Hamas more popular than Fatah in West Bank, who will lead Palestine? People in Israel want to expand settlements, expand Israel.  Maybe something can be done with Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, UAE etc..maybe some part of any Abraham accords deal under Trump. Saudi may want a deal, but a roadmap to Palestinian statehood might be part of it. 

I just think the war may end, but life will remain too sh*t and intolerable for many Palestinians.

[steviewevie]

Subject change...US govt close to shutdown over some spending bill...and apparently Musk has been throwing his significant weight behind opposing the bill.

Musk has way too much power, nationally and internationally. When Trump spoke to Zelensky Musk was with him. Musk met with Iranian ambassador recently. Musk has been talking to Putin. Musk has his eyes set on next UK election wanting to remove Starmer and help Reform.

Not sure what can be done about it, but something should be done about it. He is a global oligarch.