International Politics

[steviewevie]

what is key in this is US breaking it's unconditional support for Israel. Netanyahu has now cancelled it's delegation visit to US because US didn't veto vote, but in the end Israel are reliant on US for a lot of it's weapon supplies and aid...so US hold the cards here...and basically Biden is telling Netanyahu to f**k off.

[Nobody Interesting]

27 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

what is key in this is US breaking it's unconditional support for Israel. Netanyahu has now cancelled it's delegation visit to US because US didn't veto vote, but in the end Israel are reliant on US for a lot of it's weapon supplies and aid...so US hold the cards here...and basically Biden is telling Netanyahu to f**k off.

About time someone did

[Nobody Interesting]

Would it be OK if Russia bombed Tajikistan forcing people to move and then bombed where they moved to and then blocked aid getting in as the continued to bomb them?

 

I would think every person reading this would say no, not it is not OK.

 

So why do all too many just accept what Israel is doing to Gaza?

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Would it be OK if Russia bombed Tajikistan forcing people to move and then bombed where they moved to and then blocked aid getting in as the continued to bomb them?

 

I would think every person reading this would say no, not it is not OK.

 

So why do all too many just accept what Israel is doing to Gaza?

This was carried out by a few terrorists from Tajikistan, not the actual government and military of Tajikistan.

[steviewevie]

And Russia did bomb the f**k out of Chechnya in the early 2000s but noone seemed that bothered.

[Nobody Interesting]

34 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

This was carried out by a few terrorists from Tajikistan, not the actual government and military of Tajikistan.

So you can bomb and starve people to death based on who it is decided the attackers are then?
Do you have proof the government there are not connected?
If Russia now attacked the country does that make it right or wrong?

[Nobody Interesting]

33 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

And Russia did bomb the f**k out of Chechnya in the early 2000s but noone seemed that bothered.

Incorrect.

The USA was very bothered (from day 1 not 6 months later) as was the UN.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

So you can bomb and starve people to death based on who it is decided the attackers are then?
Do you have proof the government there are not connected?
If Russia now attacked the country does that make it right or wrong?

I have no proof, but currently it seems to be that these were Tajik terrorists working for IS-K. No one is pointing the finger at whoever governs Tajikstan, but they are at Ukraine and looks like Putin is using that to up the ante against Kyiv.

And I am not condoning what Israel are doing, just that the situations are different.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Incorrect.

The USA was very bothered (from day 1 not 6 months later) as was the UN.

Might have been bothered but nothing happened, and wasn't mass protests around the world.

[steviewevie]

Anyway, ceasefire talks are close to collapse after that UN vote so fat lot of good that did.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I have no proof, but currently it seems to be that these were Tajik terrorists working for IS-K. No one is pointing the finger at whoever governs Tajikstan, but they are at Ukraine and looks like Putin is using that to up the ante against Kyiv.

if anything Russia could go after this IS lot in Afghanistan...about time someone invaded again.

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Anyway, ceasefire talks are close to collapse after that UN vote so fat lot of good that did.

Any UN vote will be ignored by Israel - they have a proven track record of doing so. Binding ones, non binding ones - they just ignore them and do what they want.

The USA has to stop funding and arming them for anything to change more so now than ever as numerous members of the Israel government are openly calling for Gaza to become part of Israel.

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, Nobody Interesting said:

So you can bomb and starve people to death based on who it is decided the attackers are then?
Do you have proof the government there are not connected?
If Russia now attacked the country does that make it right or wrong?

Are they brown?

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

Israel strike Iran consulate in Syria. No biggie.

[Neil]

On 3/26/2024 at 8:30 AM, Nobody Interesting said:

So why do all too many just accept what Israel is doing to Gaza?

not being able to change it doesn't mean we accept it.

calling one side evil doesn't fix it either.

[Neil]

4 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Israel strike Iran consulate in Syria. No biggie.

not a biggie until the action is the other direction - that'll be a big biggie!!!!!

[steviewevie]

So now Gaza left without charities providing aid and UNRWA in the north and there is a famine. There needs to be an intervention.

[lazyred]

Isreal using AI to help identify Hamas targets. I guess this is the future, eventually the AI system will direct drones to bomb targets decided by a computer with no human oversight. The article also claims that at the start Isreal set limits of 15 civilain casualties for authorising strikes against low ranking Hamas fighters. It's stretching  the proportionality principles.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, lazyred said:

Isreal using AI to help identify Hamas targets. I guess this is the future, eventually the AI system will direct drones to bomb targets decided by a computer with no human oversight. The article also claims that at the start Isreal set limits of 15 civilain casualties for authorising strikes against low ranking Hamas fighters. It's stretching  the proportionality principles.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes

blimey. Brave new world. I would suggest that this use of AI has not been successful.

[Nobody Interesting]

12 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

blimey. Brave new world. I would suggest that this use of AI has not been successful.

or maybe it did exactly what they wanted?

[Neil]

19 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

or maybe it did exactly what they wanted?

who would suggest the Israeli's had a secret evil plan?

[steviewevie]

I think the point is they used AI to identify anyone linked to Hamas...tens of thousands of them...and for low priority ones they just used dumb bombs and flattened the whole building(s)...which led to the high number of casualties. 

[steviewevie]

and they supposedly allowed up to 20 civilian casualties for each target.

So...is that a war crime? Is that genocidal? Is there anything in international law around this stuff?

[kaosmark2]

We've received moderation reports about some of the terms in this conversation. I'm going to particularly highlight "Brave New World". Given the long history of conspiracy theories equating Jews with globalism, secret world orders, and the type of dystopian control described in that novel, I agree that this is problematic.

However, it is also unfair to immediately ascribe ill intent here. Anti-Semitic tropes get passed over in a lot of society because they're tropes, and it is hard to know the user's intent. One trope can very easily be spoken out of ignorance, it's only upon seeing multiple that you can usually assume a direct attempt to foster and incite hatred.

This conversation is also directly referencing the supposed use of AI targeting systems, which is a very different dystopian issue, and criticism of that should not lead to accusations of anti-Semitism.

We have no wish to shut down conversation about the conflict in Gaza, nor to remove criticism or even speculation about the Israeli government. This is obviously an important and relevant topic. No-one in the world manages to tread this line perfectly, certainly not the users of a music forum, or its small moderation team. That said, because of the sensitive history, please try and apply a sense check when making comments. If we do spot a pattern of anti-Semitic tropes from any user, that will result in an immediate ban. Racism is not tolerated on eFestivals, and us giving the benefit of the doubt in this incidence should not be taken as an invitation to persist with potential tropes and incitement.

Also as an FYI. Going forward I'm going to use coloured bold text to indicate a "mod voice" on the rare occasion I'm speaking as a mod. If anyone has a request for a colour I'm happy to listen, particularly on accessibility grounds.

Edited April 3 by kaosmark2