International Politics

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

I think that was inevitable but it's also putting pressure on Putin and calling for a resolution. Loads of people in Russia are freaking out right now! 

yes. Big gamble by Zelensky this. Have to see what happens...

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

everyone seems bothered about a small boat sinking when it has rich people on it.

 

Yep, seems the rich matter more to the media

[steviewevie]

Netanyahu doesn't want a deal..his government would colllapse and he'd be looking at jail time. Sinwar doesn't want a deal..he's a nutty hard man who probably thinks this is going pretty well for them.

 

Only way to get it is to play hard ball. US stops with the arms supplies to Israel. Egypt/Qatar stops aid and support to Hamas. If that fails then send in multi-nation troops into Gaza to provide security etc. I don't know what alternative is. May as well give up on the hostages, probably all dead now anyway.

[Nobody Interesting]

59 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Netanyahu doesn't want a deal..his government would colllapse and he'd be looking at jail time. Sinwar doesn't want a deal..he's a nutty hard man who probably thinks this is going pretty well for them.

 

Only way to get it is to play hard ball. US stops with the arms supplies to Israel. Egypt/Qatar stops aid and support to Hamas. If that fails then send in multi-nation troops into Gaza to provide security etc. I don't know what alternative is. May as well give up on the hostages, probably all dead now anyway.

 

Comes as no surprise. Israel got the USA to add in things both knew Hamas would not agree to. Even in a speech yesterday Blinken said that Israel has not yet finished their military operation - I mean, if he agrees that is the case then there can be no ceasefire can there FFS.

All so they look like they are doing something whilst letting Israel do what they want where and how they want.

[steviewevie]

Seems insolvable. Nuke the lot.

[steviewevie]

now this is a conspiracy I can get on board with.

 

[steviewevie]

maybe Ukraine and Russia are slowly swapping places.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

Telegram CEO been arrested in France 

[steviewevie]

further escalation in middle east it seems...what both Hamas and Netanyahu's govt want.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

further escalation in middle east it seems...what both Hamas and Netanyahu's govt want.

not sure what this means for ongoing ceasefire talks.

[Nobody Interesting]

12 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

not sure what this means for ongoing ceasefire talks.

 

'Pre-emptive' says Israel after it carries out attacks it planned for weeks under the guise of we found they planned to attack us.

[steviewevie]

38 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

'Pre-emptive' says Israel after it carries out attacks it planned for weeks under the guise of we found they planned to attack us.

well...Hezbollah has carried out its attack so...

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

well...Hezbollah has carried out its attack so...

 

Israel fired first so............

[steviewevie]

😄 Anyway Hezbollah have said they're done, so maybe all sides don't in fact want all out war..but they sure are playing with fire...

[Nobody Interesting]

23 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

😄 Anyway Hezbollah have said they're done, so maybe all sides don't in fact want all out war..but they sure are playing with fire...

 

At what point will Israel say they are done?

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

At what point will Israel say they are done?

When Trump wins in November 

[steviewevie]

or they kill Sinwar 

[doogie]

49 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

At what point will Israel say they are done?

When the rest of the Arab world accept's Israel's right to exist and stops trying to destroy it.

[steviewevie]

51 minutes ago, doogie said:

When the rest of the Arab world accept's Israel's right to exist and stops trying to destroy it.

Well they're not really helping themselves with that...

[doogie]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Well they're not really helping themselves with that...

Israel's military actions are nearly always either defensive or preemptive.

 

Sure there's a lot of 'collateral' damage which is always regrettable, but none of that would be necessary if Israel's neighbours weren't hellbent on wiping Israel (and nearly half the world's Jewish population who live there) off the map.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, doogie said:

Israel's military actions are nearly always either defensive or preemptive.

 

Sure there's a lot of 'collateral' damage which is always regrettable, but none of that would be necessary if Israel's neighbours weren't hellbent on wiping Israel (and nearly half the world's Jewish population who live there) off the map.

ok...but surely you can see that what has happened in Gaza is totally disproportional and actually counter productive...and the whole settler thing that is going on in West Bank is hardly defensive (but I guess that isn't official Israeli policy...sort of)...but yes some how need to reach a place where Israeli statehood is accepted and they can feel secure...but also that Palestine have the same and self determination.

In terms of other Arab nations such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan etc they all accept and now work with Israel, it is Iran and their proxies that do not...but the main driver of all that is Palestine, solving that would go a long way to resolving everything. Not easy, so much history, so much hate.

[Nobody Interesting]

You can call 1967 pre-emptive if you want but 1967 was simple invasion and occupation with some places still occupied against UN resolutions to this day.

 

You can call removing Palestinians from settlements and building your own pre-emptive if you want but that is simply against international law and condemned by pretty much the entire world.

Israel is far from blame free and until they accept some of the blame then I see no resolution to the mess we are now in and with Israeli government ministers describing Palestinians as 'sub-human' when the break into prisons to set free army members being held over quite vile crimes shows that at present there is zero chance of Israel backing down on anything.

[doogie]

48 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

You can call 1967 pre-emptive if you want but 1967 was simple invasion and occupation with some places still occupied against UN resolutions to this day.

 

You can call removing Palestinians from settlements and building your own pre-emptive if you want but that is simply against international law and condemned by pretty much the entire world.

Israel is far from blame free and until they accept some of the blame then I see no resolution to the mess we are now in and with Israeli government ministers describing Palestinians as 'sub-human' when the break into prisons to set free army members being held over quite vile crimes shows that at present there is zero chance of Israel backing down on anything.

1967 was absolutely preemptive, but yes, noone in this conflict is blame free.

 

But I maintain the key to resolving this for the long term is the Arabs' recognition of the state of Israel, so Israel is no longer threatened. Exact borders can all be negotiated at that point. Israel has removed settlements before (e.g. from Gaza in 2005) and probably would again if there was a realistic chance of peace as a result.

 

It shouldn't be that much to ask really, considering Israel is tiny in comparison to the rest of the region (it's about the size of Wales) and it is the historic Jewish homeland.