International Politics

[steviewevie]

3 hours ago, Neil said:

and again the kippers will say that's why it was right to brexit.

well looks like Germany having it's own kippery moment, along with lots of other EU countries.

 

[steviewevie]

some high risk brinkmanship going on between NATO and Russia.

[charlierc]

I guess there's a question of how far is Putin bending before breaking. We've burned through multiple red lines by this point.

 

This Wikipedia page was a curio I found when lurking on Reddit the other day. It's a textbook from the late 90s published in Russia by a neo-fascist academic following a so called "neo-Eurasian" approach, which seems to have in retrospect been a bedrock for their foreign policy to a fairly unsettling degree.

[steviewevie]

Looks likes Putin's threats worked...for now...

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Looks likes Putin's threats worked...for now...

...although apparently the missile thing may well have been agreed but they won't ever publicly announce it.

 

[charlierc]

Politico are saying another meeting will be held on whether to give Ukraine permission for those missiles at the UN General Assembly, which takes place in a week and a half. So, for now, more waiting. And presumably more time for Putin & his mob to make threats.

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Politico are saying another meeting will be held on whether to give Ukraine permission for those missiles at the UN General Assembly, which takes place in a week and a half. So, for now, more waiting. And presumably more time for Putin & his mob to make threats.

More time for them to prepare for missile strikes.

They're running out of time if Trump gets in.

[steviewevie]

 

[Neil]

On 9/13/2024 at 6:36 AM, steviewevie said:

some high risk brinkmanship going on between NATO and Russia.

they're risking no one but the plebs like us!

[charlierc]

11 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

Presumably Trump and Netanyahu will not be answering questions about how their push to unravel the 2015 Iran deal brokered by Obama and the EU lead to such a potential situation.

[steviewevie]

Israel taking out Hezbollah with exploding pagers is something else.

[doogie]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Israel taking out Hezbollah with exploding pagers is something else.

 

If the Israelis are responsible for that, they are f**king legends 😆

[steviewevie]

42 minutes ago, doogie said:

 

If the Israelis are responsible for that, they are f**king legends 😆

have to see what repercussions are. Amazing though.

[steviewevie]

If Israel can do this super clever sh*t and also assassinate various leaders in Iran/Lebanon etc then why do they need to bomb the f**k out of Gaza if it isn't some sort of collective punishment (or genocide)?

[doogie]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

If Israel can do this super clever sh*t and also assassinate various leaders in Iran/Lebanon etc then why do they need to bomb the f**k out of Gaza if it isn't some sort of collective punishment (or genocide)?

 

In a word, tunnels.

 

They can't destroy Hamas's terrorist capabilities without destroying the tunnels, and they can't do that without significant 'collateral damage' as they've been intentionally built under peoples' homes and other civilian infrastructure.

 

The hostage situation makes things even harder.

 

And clearly their intelligence is far from perfect as they didn't see the October 7th attacks coming when they really should have.

 

Edited September 17 by doogie

[kaosmark2]

16 hours ago, steviewevie said:

If Israel can do this super clever sh*t and also assassinate various leaders in Iran/Lebanon etc then why do they need to bomb the f**k out of Gaza if it isn't some sort of collective punishment (or genocide)?

Well thousands of people were injured by this. Isn't this just terrorism? Or do hidden explosives injuring thousands not count as terrorism when it's white people hurting brown people?

[steviewevie]

36 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Well thousands of people were injured by this. Isn't this just terrorism? Or do hidden explosives injuring thousands not count as terrorism when it's white people hurting brown people?

I guess could be considered terrorism...although specifically targeting Hezbollah...so is that any different to dropping a bomb on a home full of Hezbollah? Also Hezbollah and Israel have been fighting a warm war since Oct 7th, so this could be considered part of that. Any retaliation from Hezbollah would not be considered terrorism I don't think.

(I also question the white people hurting brown people thing with Lebanon and Israel).

[kaosmark2]

Just now, steviewevie said:

I guess could be considered terrorism...although specifically targeting Hezbollah...so is that any different to dropping a bomb on a home full of Hezbollah? Also Hezbollah and Israel have been fighting a warm war since Oct 7th, so this could be considered part of that. Any retaliation from Hezbollah would not be considered terrorism I don't think.

(I also question the white people hurting brown people thing with Lebanon and Israel).

I mean, we (rightfully) call Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist groups because they unleash explosives that are indiscriminate in who they hurt. They do typically target Israeli officials or people linked to them. I just don't see the difference between this and what those groups do.

[steviewevie]

So...could say that Hamas attack on Oct 7th was possibly meant to provoke a response from Israel, which it definitely did, which would then lead to a wider war in the region. (This might not be true though, who knows?).

But it definitely looks like Israel are trying to provoke Hezbollah/Iran into a wider conflict, maybe because they know they have the protection of US, but also because in terms of military power and espionage they are way superior. Eventually something will give.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I mean, we (rightfully) call Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist groups because they unleash explosives that are indiscriminate in who they hurt. They do typically target Israeli officials or people linked to them. I just don't see the difference between this and what those groups do.

Yes, but when in an actual conflict is it terrorism, or is it just part of warfare?

[kaosmark2]

18 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yes, but when in an actual conflict is it terrorism, or is it just part of warfare?

Given it was targeting people in places like shopping centres, I'd argue terrorism.

 

But at its best its a war crime.

[steviewevie]

36 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Given it was targeting people in places like shopping centres, I'd argue terrorism.

 

But at its best its a war crime.

Targeting Hezbollah?

Anyway, it may well be a war crime...but then the whole thing is full of war crimes..

[steviewevie]

actually saw that a few kids killed and a whole bunch of civilians injured so I take a lot of what I just said back.

[kaosmark2]

25 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Targeting Hezbollah?

Anyway, it may well be a war crime...but then the whole thing is full of war crimes..

The official targets were families of Hezbollah, not even their direct officials.

 

And current reports are over 3000 injured, virtually all civilians.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

The official targets were families of Hezbollah, not even their direct officials.

 

And current reports are over 3000 injured, virtually all civilians.

why families? These pagers were given to Hezbollah to communicate with each other because mobile phones could be tracked.

and where do you get virtually all injured were civilians from?