Rock Werchter 2025

[thetime]

32 minutes ago, ParanoidTourist said:

 

How about Arctic Monkeys, Jack White, The National, Arcade Fire, Eminem, System of a Down, Muse, Gorillaz etc.? 

 

Muse, gorillaz, SOAD, Eminem all before 2000. 

[Floyd_Ams]

9 minutes ago, tmolvik said:

 

Everyone started somewhere, but the problem is that it's still the bands that started before 2000 that draw crowds. Those that started a few years ago will never be as big, and they will never last for the same amount of time. Therefore stadium bands and festivals are slowly dying out, because you'll soon not have the likes of Pearl Jam, Metallica, Springsteen, Stones, McCartney ++

I've given the challenge before, and I can do it again. Give me a band that started after 2000, that also will sell out festivals and/or stadiums, 30 years after. With the exception of Taylor Swift, I can't really think of anyone. If you draw the line 10 years laetr there are probably none (and by stadiums I don't mean the 25k ones). There are those that maybe have a 5 year peak or so after a decent album or two (like KOL), but none that lasts. And there won't be either, because of how the music industry works now. 

Ok from the top of my head: 

Coldplay, Beyoncé, SOAD (stealing a bit here, they are from ‘99), Linkin Park, Arctic Monkeys, Ed Sheeran, Imagine Dragons, Gorillaz…

 

Btw…Apart from SOAD and Gorillaz I don’t like any of the above (other than some songs/albums from a couple of them). 
 

But I get your point. It’s more difficult for bands to get legendary status these days due to the mass consumption and the fact that “genesis” is extremely difficult to achieve anymore. If you are a kid of the 90s (and a bit before and after) you had the luck to experience the birth of multiple genres. More flavors of metal than I can count, Grunge, Trip hop, Techno, D&B…the list is endless. And that made the attachment with these bands stronger. Rock, Metal and then techno was the cool at the time. It’s what we grew up with, what the kids were mostly into back then. Most of the Rock/Metal “fathers” were still around while at the same time electronic music was exploding. Nowadays, it’s mostly mainstream pop and hip hop that gets all the lights.  

That’s all to say…Never say never! 🙂 Music goes in circles just like life and don’t underestimate the effect of nostalgia. For us that’s encapsulated in bands like Pearl Jam or Radiohead for the youth of today that might be Taylor Swift, Kendrick Lamar or Imagine Dragons in 20 years from now. And that’s ok! It will circle back and off it will go again…

[ParanoidTourist]

5 minutes ago, thetime said:

 

Muse, gorillaz, SOAD, Eminem all before 2000. 

 

Well, technically they started late 1990s but the main bulk of their albums came after 2000. Gorillaz first album came in 2001.

[thetime]

1 minute ago, ParanoidTourist said:

 Gorillaz first album came in 2001.

 

I was at there very first uk tour, was a shambles. Played behind a screen all night. 🤣

[tmolvik]

57 minutes ago, ParanoidTourist said:

 

How about Arctic Monkeys, Jack White, The National, Arcade Fire, Eminem, System of a Down, Muse, Gorillaz etc.? 

 

Arctic Monkeys: One of the closest ones, but are mainly doing smaller stadium venues around 15-25k (especially outside UK). Unless they come up with something magic again, they won't headline any major festivals or doing stadiums in 5 years.
Jack White: Not even remotely close. Has hardly headlined anything major, and is not even close to those high rollers.
The National: Seriously?
Arcade Fire: Have tried some 10-20000k venues, but have had problems selling tickets, even in North-America, for many years. Probably not even known by 10% of potential concert goers.
Eminem: Yes, but he started in the 90's.
System of a Down: Started in their 90's and even though they can attract people to festivals still, they are not a major stadium band.
Muse: 90's

Gorillaz: 90's, and stadiums? 

All are good bands, but half of them did not start after 2000 and they are not major stadium bands/artists (except for Eminem)

[tmolvik]

33 minutes ago, Floyd_Ams said:

Ok from the top of my head: 

Coldplay, Beyoncé, SOAD (stealing a bit here, they are from ‘99), Linkin Park, Arctic Monkeys, Ed Sheeran, Imagine Dragons, Gorillaz…

 

Btw…Apart from SOAD and Gorillaz I don’t like any of the above (other than some songs/albums from a couple of them). 
 

But I get your point. It’s more difficult for bands to get legendary status these days due to the mass consumption and the fact that “genesis” is extremely difficult to achieve anymore. If you are a kid of the 90s (and a bit before and after) you had the luck to experience the birth of multiple genres. More flavors of metal than I can count, Grunge, Trip hop, Techno, D&B…the list is endless. And that made the attachment with these bands stronger. Rock, Metal and then techno was the cool at the time. It’s what we grew up with, what the kids were mostly into back then. Most of the Rock/Metal “fathers” were still around while at the same time electronic music was exploding. Nowadays, it’s mostly mainstream pop and hip hop that gets all the lights.  

That’s all to say…Never say never! 🙂 Music goes in circles just like life and don’t underestimate the effect of nostalgia. For us that’s encapsulated in bands like Pearl Jam or Radiohead for the youth of today that might be Taylor Swift, Kendrick Lamar or Imagine Dragons in 20 years from now. And that’s ok! It will circle back and off it will go again…

 

Coldplay: 90's
Beyonce: Really 90's, although she went solo early 00's. Can slightly agree with this one, but I think the main reason she can sell some stadiums (if she can outside NA), is because she hardly tours.

Linkin Park: 90's (and is it really Linkin Park anymore)?
Ed Sheeran: Maybe, but he seems to be on the decline and needs to continue in the same pace for 10 more years to be valid, which I'm unsure about. Still one of the relevant alternatives, but last year he did smaller festivals like a medium sized one in Norway.
Imagine Dragons: Already playing smaller festivals, and I'm not sure I'd agree that they've ever been a major stadium band. Typical sub on Werchter-sized. 

Gorillaz: 90's, and not stadium band.

That said, I pretty much agree with everything else you said and hope that it cycles back, but I doubt it when we've become a people with attention spans as 2 year olds..
 

[thetime]

22 minutes ago, tmolvik said:

 

Arctic Monkeys: One of the closest ones, but are mainly doing smaller stadium venues around 15-25k (especially outside UK). Unless they come up with something magic again, they won't headline any major festivals or doing stadiums in 5 years.
 

 

Do you really think that? For me they are one of those acts that will headline major festivals whatever there output is. 

 

In the same way it doesn't matter what the likes of Radiohead, RHCP, Foo Fighters deliver. They will always headline major festivals. 

Edited November 3 by thetime

[Floyd_Ams]

3 minutes ago, tmolvik said:

 

Coldplay: 90's
Beyonce: Really 90's, although she went solo early 00's. Can slightly agree with this one, but I think the main reason she can sell some stadiums (if she can outside NA), is because she hardly tours.

Linkin Park: 90's (and is it really Linkin Park anymore)?
Ed Sheeran: Maybe, but he seems to be on the decline and needs to continue in the same pace for 10 more years to be valid, which I'm unsure about. Still one of the relevant alternatives, but last year he did smaller festivals like a medium sized one in Norway.
Imagine Dragons: Already playing smaller festivals, and I'm not sure I'd agree that they've ever been a major stadium band. Typical sub on Werchter-sized. 

Gorillaz: 90's, and not stadium band.

That said, I pretty much agree with everything else you said and hope that it cycles back, but I doubt it when we've become a people with attention spans as 2 year olds..
 

I’m sorry, I don’t think it makes any difference really on the main subject but just for my own OCD I have to correct you there 🙂. Both Coldplay and Linking Park released their first albums in 2000. With a doubt about Gorillaz all the aforementioned bands sell out football stadiums in minutes. Imagine Dragons play is stadiums these days, headlined RW a couple of years back and are headlining Werchter Boutique this year (how they’ve managed to get so big is beyond me but who cares what I think).
 

Anyway…it doesn’t matter if any of these bands are in decline. Nostalgia, demand and right timing is what will always make them look bigger if they play their cards right. 

[tmolvik]

25 minutes ago, Floyd_Ams said:

I’m sorry, I don’t think it makes any difference really on the main subject but just for my own OCD I have to correct you there 🙂. Both Coldplay and Linking Park released their first albums in 2000. With a doubt about Gorillaz all the aforementioned bands sell out football stadiums in minutes. Imagine Dragons play is stadiums these days, headlined RW a couple of years back and are headlining Werchter Boutique this year (how they’ve managed to get so big is beyond me but who cares what I think).
 

Anyway…it doesn’t matter if any of these bands are in decline. Nostalgia, demand and right timing is what will always make them look bigger if they play their cards right. 

OCD goes both ways, so I guess it depends on how you see it 😉 The band formed years before Parachutes, but yeah. First album was in 2000. And nevertheless, yes, they're a band that probably will sell stadiums for years to come (even if their new music sucks). Same story with Linkin Park, but they've never been a major stadium band for me. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing them at RW. Same with pretty much every novelty band, but it's find that they give new artists a chance when they're peaking, even though I wouldn't have thought that Sam Fender was big enough for even such a task. Rather him than Måneskin though. 

 

40 minutes ago, thetime said:

 

Do you really think that? For me they are one of those acts that will headline major festivals whatever there output is. 

 

In the same way it doesn't matter what the likes of Radiohead, RHCP, Foo Fighters deliver. They will always headline major festivals. 

I thought of them as a headliner for many years (and kinda still do), but they need to come up with something new if they wanna keep that role. AM is over 10 years ago now.. As for their audiences, I just looked at what venues they were playing. But yeah, the other ones you mention will headline for years to come if they continue to play, but they're not after 2000. 

Also, don't get me wrong. There's plenty of great newer bands out there, they're just not "rock star-material", because we don't create those to last anymore. The market is too fragmented. That's also way The Slope is my favorite stage at Werchter. That's where you discover them up & close. If that's the artists that should defend the price though, that's a whole other question.

[birdy1902]

Hi all... what are the chances of the Rolling stones headlining next year? I have seen rumours online of a European tour May-July. Admittedly they don't often make festival appearances but I know they have done in the past at Roskilde and Pinkpop (2014 i think).

[ParanoidTourist]

8 hours ago, tmolvik said:

 

Arctic Monkeys: One of the closest ones, but are mainly doing smaller stadium venues around 15-25k (especially outside UK). Unless they come up with something magic again, they won't headline any major festivals or doing stadiums in 5 years.
Jack White: Not even remotely close. Has hardly headlined anything major, and is not even close to those high rollers.
The National: Seriously?
Arcade Fire: Have tried some 10-20000k venues, but have had problems selling tickets, even in North-America, for many years. Probably not even known by 10% of potential concert goers.
Eminem: Yes, but he started in the 90's.
System of a Down: Started in their 90's and even though they can attract people to festivals still, they are not a major stadium band.
Muse: 90's

Gorillaz: 90's, and stadiums? 

All are good bands, but half of them did not start after 2000 and they are not major stadium bands/artists (except for Eminem)

 

Yeah, you're probably right about Jack White but to my knowledge the other mentioned bands still play fairly big arenas. And Gorillaz first album came out in 2001. 

Anyway, the line up will be what it is. But if the rest of the line up is on Sam Fender level, I probably will choose another festival for the first time since 2008.

[Newjem]

Well, it's not really about bands nowadays, is it? Apart from Imagine Dragons I can't think of any other band post-2000 that would be selling out stadiums. Now we are in the era where solo artists play the stadiums - Taylor Swift, The Weeknd, Travis Scott, Dua Lipa, Ed Sheeran, Harry Styles, Lady Gaga... And then there's a special category - K-pop (BTS and Blackpink) but they're not really a band, more of a group I'd say.

[MrTobs]

2 hours ago, Newjem said:

Well, it's not really about bands nowadays, is it? Apart from Imagine Dragons I can't think of any other band post-2000 that would be selling out stadiums. Now we are in the era where solo artists play the stadiums - Taylor Swift, The Weeknd, Travis Scott, Dua Lipa, Ed Sheeran, Harry Styles, Lady Gaga... And then there's a special category - K-pop (BTS and Blackpink) but they're not really a band, more of a group I'd say.

Yeah, I was surprised no one mentioned the obvious acts, that have done stadium tours in recent years.

Surely: Taylor Swift, The Weeknd, Travis Scott, Harry Styles, Lady Gaga, Ed Sheeran, Beyonce, Bad Bunny, Coldplay, BTS and Adele. 

With some doubts but also possibly Billie Eilish, Kanye, Justin Bieber, Blackpink and Bruno Mars and at the right moment maybe Rihanna, Drake and Dua Lipa. 

Pink probably counts as 90's right even tho her stadium tours have been only recently. 

Edited November 3 by MrTobs

[tmolvik]

51 minutes ago, MrTobs said:

Yeah, I was surprised no one mentioned the obvious acts, that have done stadium tours in recent years.

Surely: Taylor Swift, The Weeknd, Travis Scott, Harry Styles, Lady Gaga, Ed Sheeran, Beyonce, Bad Bunny, Coldplay, BTS and Adele. 

With some doubts but also possibly Billie Eilish, Kanye, Justin Bieber, Blackpink and Bruno Mars and at the right moment maybe Rihanna, Drake and Dua Lipa. 

Pink probably counts as 90's right even tho her stadium tours have been only recently. 

 

My point was not that there's no newer bands doing stadium shows, because there are, when they're in the spotlight for a few years. I highly doubt that any of them will be doing it 30 years after their break through tough, unless it's those once off that creates interest because of limited availability. That's why we'll say that artists aren't big enough, because either they have to book them on their way up like Sam Fender (before only doing solo shows) or on their decline (like KOL). And 5 years later most of them are forgotten. Out of the above, I'd still say that Taylor Swift is the only exception to the rule. She'll probably stay big and relevant as long as she wants to. The others might sell out smaller venues or the odd major stadiums in specific cities, but not even close to the 80-90's mastodons.

[Newjem]

16 minutes ago, tmolvik said:

 

My point was not that there's no newer bands doing stadium shows, because there are, when they're in the spotlight for a few years. I highly doubt that any of them will be doing it 30 years after their break through tough, unless it's those once off that creates interest because of limited availability. That's why we'll say that artists aren't big enough, because either they have to book them on their way up like Sam Fender (before only doing solo shows) or on their decline (like KOL). And 5 years later most of them are forgotten. Out of the above, I'd still say that Taylor Swift is the only exception to the rule. She'll probably stay big and relevant as long as she wants to. The others might sell out smaller venues or the odd major stadiums in specific cities, but not even close to the 80-90's mastodons.

Some of them are already doing it for 10+ years. I don't know why they should all get irrelevant so quickly. There's nothing that would suggest it. Yes, some artists will be forgotten in a few years when they fail to deliver good albums or people just lose interest but that's nothing new. That happened to some 80-90s bands as well.

[MrTobs]

27 minutes ago, tmolvik said:

 

My point was not that there's no newer bands doing stadium shows, because there are, when they're in the spotlight for a few years. I highly doubt that any of them will be doing it 30 years after their break through tough, unless it's those once off that creates interest because of limited availability. That's why we'll say that artists aren't big enough, because either they have to book them on their way up like Sam Fender (before only doing solo shows) or on their decline (like KOL). And 5 years later most of them are forgotten. Out of the above, I'd still say that Taylor Swift is the only exception to the rule. She'll probably stay big and relevant as long as she wants to. The others might sell out smaller venues or the odd major stadiums in specific cities, but not even close to the 80-90's mastodons.

I strongly disagree. There is nothing to suspect that someone like Coldplay won't do stadiums in 30 years. They are kind of doing their best to lose their status with releasing one mediocre album after another, but they are not declining at all.

For some of the others we will have to see, but I don't see why someone like Adele, Lady Gaga or Beyonce should suddenly become less popular. I'd even argue in opposite to lots of the rock-band-stadium acts like Foo Fighters or RHCP, they have the chance to keep staying relevant in the general musical zeitgeist, cause they proved themselves to not only be top performers, but also their artistic output is still top-level and feels fresh.

If you look at the list of highest grossing stadium tours of all time, even adjusting inflation, 5 of the Top 10 are by newer artists. 

[Ohad]

36 minutes ago, MrTobs said:

I strongly disagree. There is nothing to suspect that someone like Coldplay won't do stadiums in 30 years. They are kind of doing their best to lose their status with releasing one mediocre album after another, but they are not declining at all.

For some of the others we will have to see, but I don't see why someone like Adele, Lady Gaga or Beyonce should suddenly become less popular. I'd even argue in opposite to lots of the rock-band-stadium acts like Foo Fighters or RHCP, they have the chance to keep staying relevant in the general musical zeitgeist, cause they proved themselves to not only be top performers, but also their artistic output is still top-level and feels fresh.

If you look at the list of highest grossing stadium tours of all time, even adjusting inflation, 5 of the Top 10 are by newer artists. 

 

Specifically Gaga would be a poor example (because her popularity and the extent of her tours has decreased very fast after her climax), but I agree, artists like Beyonce and Coldplay sell out massive toura while they aren't really relevant for the charts anymore (don't kill me beehive)

[sisco]

Where do we think Fontaines DC will be placed? I typically judge them by where Idles are placing (4th main last year) but I think with the increase in popularity they may just jump a spot to 3rd Main.

[Newjem]

1 hour ago, Ohad said:

 

Specifically Gaga would be a poor example (because her popularity and the extent of her tours has decreased very fast after her climax), but I agree, artists like Beyonce and Coldplay sell out massive toura while they aren't really relevant for the charts anymore (don't kill me beehive)

Just because she's not doing 5 dates in Wembley that doesn't mean she's not still selling out big stadiums. Did Stade de France a 2 Tottenham dates on her last tour in 2022.

[MrTobs]

58 minutes ago, Ohad said:

 

Specifically Gaga would be a poor example (because her popularity and the extent of her tours has decreased very fast after her climax), but I agree, artists like Beyonce and Coldplay sell out massive toura while they aren't really relevant for the charts anymore (don't kill me beehive)

While that's true, she still did a small stadium tour in 2022 and I think it's also due to her concentrating on her acting career. I think that if she goes back to putting out music and touring on a regular basis, she still can sell massive tours. She has a big core audience comparable to Beyonce (especially never underestimate the loyality of queer audiences towards their icons^^), but she is also being taken more serious as an artist by the general audience in recent years, so people will show up to see her perform Shallow for example.

I also feel like she would be a great headliner for festivals, but not sure if she's willing to do that.

[tmolvik]

2 hours ago, Newjem said:

Some of them are already doing it for 10+ years. I don't know why they should all get irrelevant so quickly. There's nothing that would suggest it. Yes, some artists will be forgotten in a few years when they fail to deliver good albums or people just lose interest but that's nothing new. That happened to some 80-90s bands as well.

 

That was not my initial question. I haven't said that every band will get irrelevant (although I kinda think so with the newer ones), but to name a band that that started after 2000 that will be stadium-size relevant in 30+ years. Except for some of the bands that our OCD's says are borderline 90/00 depending on how you count, it only Taylor Swift I'm quite convinced of. Maybe Ed Sheeran, but like I said, he's already started to play smaller festivals (but has the potential to be relevant again). If we had drawn the line at 2010, there would probably be none. 

 

Of course there were many that got forgotten in the 80-90's as well, but they are pretty much the only ones people regard as major headliners. My point is, that when they are gone, you won't have anything like them that can draw crowds year after year (but that doesn't mean that there are new ones that can do it for a couple of years).

 

2 hours ago, MrTobs said:

I strongly disagree. There is nothing to suspect that someone like Coldplay won't do stadiums in 30 years. They are kind of doing their best to lose their status with releasing one mediocre album after another, but they are not declining at all.

For some of the others we will have to see, but I don't see why someone like Adele, Lady Gaga or Beyonce should suddenly become less popular. I'd even argue in opposite to lots of the rock-band-stadium acts like Foo Fighters or RHCP, they have the chance to keep staying relevant in the general musical zeitgeist, cause they proved themselves to not only be top performers, but also their artistic output is still top-level and feels fresh.

If you look at the list of highest grossing stadium tours of all time, even adjusting inflation, 5 of the Top 10 are by newer artists. 

 

I don't think you read my initial post, so I don't think we really disagree. It's not about current bands not being able to continue for years bacause Coldplay can, but they are also a band starting in the 90's, so not the ones I was asking about. Beyonce is bordeline if you count 90's/00's. Adele could be, but she's already started with Las Vegas, which is pretty much what artist on the way out are doing when they are tired of touring and needs money (unless you're Elvis). Lady Gaga might have the potential, but she hasn't done a tour since 2018. 

The newer artist on the highest grossing lists are the same as we've already mentioned (except for Harry Styles, which I'm pretty much willing to bet my pension on, is not a stadium seller in 30 years). Also, you can adjust for inflation, but at the same time you can't really compare the level of logistics and support current bands have compared to those touring 30 years ago. It would have been impossible to do the same. That's why, even if it's older artists, all these tours are newer ones. There are just a whole new level of possibilities.

Anyway... Love the enthusiasm, but to no drag this completely out of what's really the topic in this forum; bring on Eminem & Paul McCartney!  Then Måneskin, BTS, Harry Styles or whatever can play on the moon for what I care 😉 

[Ohad]

1 hour ago, MrTobs said:

While that's true, she still did a small stadium tour in 2022 and I think it's also due to her concentrating on her acting career. I think that if she goes back to putting out music and touring on a regular basis, she still can sell massive tours. She has a big core audience comparable to Beyonce (especially never underestimate the loyality of queer audiences towards their icons^^), but she is also being taken more serious as an artist by the general audience in recent years, so people will show up to see her perform Shallow for example.

I also feel like she would be a great headliner for festivals, but not sure if she's willing to do that.

 

1 hour ago, Newjem said:

Just because she's not doing 5 dates in Wembley that doesn't mean she's not still selling out big stadiums. Did Stade de France a 2 Tottenham dates on her last tour in 2022.

 

Wasn't trying for one second to discredit her of course. 🙂

Her last tour also suffered massive delays due to COVID and still sold many, many tickets, despite losing some momentum. Just noting that her tours from Monster/BTW eras has been... well, bigger. More dates, more cities, more attendees. And it has been 10 years since. This is not true to Beyonce, for example. Her tours keeps getting more and more massive.

 

I would take Gaga as a headliner in a heartbeat. I don't enjoy most of her dancy music but she's hella talented singer and performer (if you already mentioned her acting career - Gagas singing is pretty much the only good thing in Joker2).

 

Edited November 3 by Ohad

[Newjem]

1 hour ago, tmolvik said:

 

That was not my initial question. I haven't said that every band will get irrelevant (although I kinda think so with the newer ones), but to name a band that that started after 2000 that will be stadium-size relevant in 30+ years. Except for some of the bands that our OCD's says are borderline 90/00 depending on how you count, it only Taylor Swift I'm quite convinced of. Maybe Ed Sheeran, but like I said, he's already started to play smaller festivals (but has the potential to be relevant again). If we had drawn the line at 2010, there would probably be none. 

 

Of course there were many that got forgotten in the 80-90's as well, but they are pretty much the only ones people regard as major headliners. My point is, that when they are gone, you won't have anything like them that can draw crowds year after year (but that doesn't mean that there are new ones that can do it for a couple of years).

 

 

I don't think you read my initial post, so I don't think we really disagree. It's not about current bands not being able to continue for years bacause Coldplay can, but they are also a band starting in the 90's, so not the ones I was asking about. Beyonce is bordeline if you count 90's/00's. Adele could be, but she's already started with Las Vegas, which is pretty much what artist on the way out are doing when they are tired of touring and needs money (unless you're Elvis). Lady Gaga might have the potential, but she hasn't done a tour since 2018. 

The newer artist on the highest grossing lists are the same as we've already mentioned (except for Harry Styles, which I'm pretty much willing to bet my pension on, is not a stadium seller in 30 years). Also, you can adjust for inflation, but at the same time you can't really compare the level of logistics and support current bands have compared to those touring 30 years ago. It would have been impossible to do the same. That's why, even if it's older artists, all these tours are newer ones. There are just a whole new level of possibilities.

Anyway... Love the enthusiasm, but to no drag this completely out of what's really the topic in this forum; bring on Eminem & Paul McCartney!  Then Måneskin, BTS, Harry Styles or whatever can play on the moon for what I care 😉 

 

 Hopefully, efestivals will still be kicking in 30 years so we can talk about it then 😅

[tmolvik]

2 hours ago, Newjem said:

 

 Hopefully, efestivals will still be kicking in 30 years so we can talk about it then 😅

Noe sure I'll be kicking myself, but if Mick Jagger can, who knows 😉

[49Lawson]

After this morning's announcement, I'd be looking at Noah Kahan to sub Sam Fender I think. 

 

(Also, some great chat over the weekend team, was some really interesting points)