Things can only get better

[Skip997]

Just now, Blisterpack said:nation built by socialist (many communists), intellectuals and atheists who developed a wonderful secular democracy that the world should have been copying, not looking to destroy. 

What happened to that wonderful “secular” democracy? (was it ever secular). How much do you know about how it was actually created? 

[Physical_graffiti]

Just now, Blisterpack said:

True. But destruction of Israel is the stated aim of Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Al Qaeda, Iran and many more in the area who Israel are fighting every day simply to exist as a nation.  Those bodies are absolutely feeling empowered by the growing support they feel in the West.  But yes, it's a horrible and complex situation and I feel increasingly isolated in my support for a nation built by socialist (many communists), intellectuals and atheists who developed a wonderful secular democracy that the world should have been copying, not looking to destroy. 

So It's complicated to express a well-rounded political opinion by simply waving a flag or a band saying "Free Palestine", but I feel confident in saying that these things displayed/said at glastonbury is solidarity with innocent civilians being murdered by the Israeli government and a plea for this to stop, and I 100% promise you, not support for any of the groups you mentioned above.

[CanWeRest]

People flying the Palestinian flag during all this makes me sick. The Palestinian government launched a coordinated invasion on Israel and committed attrocities. Then idiots who barely know anything about what's happening start waving their Palestine flags about? Disgusting! You should feel ashamed.

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

8 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

True. But destruction of Israel is the stated aim of Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Al Qaeda, Iran and many more in the area who Israel are fighting every day simply to exist as a nation.  Those bodies are absolutely feeling empowered by the growing support they feel in the West.  But yes, it's a horrible and complex situation and I feel increasingly isolated in my support for a nation built by socialist (many communists), intellectuals and atheists who developed a wonderful secular democracy that the world should have been copying, not looking to destroy. 

 

No other nation should be copying Israel's open air prisons, expansion into territory that doesn't belong to them and operation of an apartheid system.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, HotChipWillBreakYourLegs said:

 

No other nation should be copying Israel's open air prisons, expansion into territory that doesn't belong to them and operation of an apartheid system.

Our of reactions, but this is spot on

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, CanWeRest said:

People flying the Palestinian flag during all this makes me sick. The Palestinian government launched a coordinated invasion on Israel and committed attrocities. Then idiots who barely know anything about what's happening start waving their Palestine flags about? Disgusting! You should feel ashamed.

Absolute nonsense 

You’ve been played 

[tarw]

27 minutes ago, Nuthugger said:

another off topic thread that will descend into chaos. can a mod nudge it away somewhere else? 

Why are you so keen to stifle any discussion. This is a Glastonbury forum and Glastonbury has been about discussing political/world issues throughout its history. 
 

If you don’t want to partake avoid the thread. Don’t deprive others who wish to debate

[Blisterpack]

8 minutes ago, HotChipWillBreakYourLegs said:

 

No other nation should be copying Israel's open air prisons, expansion into territory that doesn't belong to them and operation of an apartheid system.

Israel has over 20% Arab population, a proportion reflected in all aspects of their civil and professional society.  None of them wish to give up their Israeli citizenship. Netanyahu is clearly an awful man, but attempts by left leaning leaders from Israel to resolve issues have failed simply because Palestinian leaders have refused to recognise Israel. Until they do there is no solution. 

[Colorblindjames]

18 minutes ago, CanWeRest said:

People flying the Palestinian flag during all this makes me sick. The Palestinian government launched a coordinated invasion on Israel and committed attrocities. Then idiots who barely know anything about what's happening start waving their Palestine flags about? Disgusting! You should feel ashamed.

Conveniently forgetting the previous 70 years. 

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Colorblindjames said:

Conveniently forgetting the previous 70 years. 

Thanks 

[Blisterpack]

16 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Absolute nonsense 

You’ve been played 

that's not fair.  It's not necessarily a position I would agree with but it's a perfectly rational emotional response to what she is seeing.

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Conveniently forgetting the previous 70 years. 

70 years of Israel being under attack from the day it was (legitimately) created by the United Nations. Nobody forgets. 

[Skip997]

3 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

70 years of Israel being under attack from the day it was (legitimately) created by the United Nations. Nobody forgets. 

70 years of Israel stealing land from the Palestinians 

 

Check the facts on how it was actually created, not the politics, but what happened on the ground 

Edited May 23 by Skip997

[tarw]

7 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Israel has over 20% Arab population, a proportion reflected in all aspects of their civil and professional society.  None of them wish to give up their Israeli citizenship. Netanyahu is clearly an awful man, but attempts by left leaning leaders from Israel to resolve issues have failed simply because Palestinian leaders have refused to recognise Israel. Until they do there is no solution. 

Likewise the current Israeli government are putting pressure on any other countries to stop them from recognising Palestine. 
It’s a very complex situation and to pretend it’s all one sided is ignorance. I hope that there is a new government in Israel that will take a different approach, even Thatcher’s government held talks with the IRA which led to peace

[stuie]

1 hour ago, Nice hymer said:

Steve Bray is an absolute legend, perfectly timed 👏👏👏

 

https://twitter.com/snb19692/status/1793321440474808687?s=48

 

 

 

[al_coholic]

Referring directly to the topic title, and I am in no way endorsing the Conservatives, but I am curious as to what "Things" people think are going to get better after Labour win. 

 

Starmers In Tray will be huge and dealing with Israel, Russia and migration will be high on the list. I also don't think there is much cash around to fix the multitude of socio-economic issues we have in this country. 

 

So in my opinion I don't think "Things" are going to get a lot better for many months or possibly years. But it will be interesting to find out. 

[Blisterpack]

36 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

What happened to that wonderful “secular” democracy? (was it ever secular). How much do you know about how it was actually created? 

I know a lot about Israel.  I also know that much of the Middle East, certainly in terms of the nations we know today, is very 'young'. Not just Israel, but also Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE: all 20th century constructs built out of post war (and post-colonial) settlements. It's a very common way for the world to be carved up. Europe has been there many times.  

[Physical_graffiti]

31 minutes ago, CanWeRest said:

People flying the Palestinian flag during all this makes me sick. The Palestinian government launched a coordinated invasion on Israel and committed attrocities. Then idiots who barely know anything about what's happening start waving their Palestine flags about? Disgusting! You should feel ashamed.

People who have a different political opinion to you aren't necessarily "idiots who barely know anything". Maybe consider that they could be very well educated.

 

Very much speaking anecdotally, but the ones I know who do it are against the murder of innocent people (all innocent people). As these attacks from Israel are currently happening on a huge scale against innocent Palestinians, including babies and children, and supported by our government, you can understand the desire to protest.

[Blisterpack]

1 minute ago, al_coholic said:

Referring directly to the topic title, and I am in no way endorsing the Conservatives, but I am curious as to what "Things" people think are going to get better after Labour win. 

 

Starmers In Tray will be huge and dealing with Israel, Russia and migration will be high on the list. I also don't think there is much cash around to fix the multitude of socio-economic issues we have in this country. 

 

So in my opinion I don't think "Things" are going to get a lot better for many months or possibly years. But it will be interesting to find out. 

Give Starmers's wikipedia page a read. Seriously, he is the sort of working class intellectual heavyweight that the country has been screaming out for since Wilson. You are so right, it's not going to look perfect straight away but he will change the culture of Government and that should bring trust and confidence that those in charge actually know what they are doing and actually care. 

[Talcroft]

1 hour ago, uscore said:

I feel like I may have been misquoted here.

 

Sorry! Small phone screens! Will edit

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, al_coholic said:

Referring directly to the topic title, and I am in no way endorsing the Conservatives, but I am curious as to what "Things" people think are going to get better after Labour win. 

 

Starmers In Tray will be huge and dealing with Israel, Russia and migration will be high on the list. I also don't think there is much cash around to fix the multitude of socio-economic issues we have in this country. 

 

So in my opinion I don't think "Things" are going to get a lot better for many months or possibly years. But it will be interesting to find out. 

For me the easy win is the sheer scale of corruption … I realise that there will be some under other govts but they can quite easily chose to tidy up politics . The level under the current govt is unprecedented . Other things will likely take time and maybe a couple of parliaments … so it’s important to absolutely obliterate them so they have no hope of power for a good while yet 

[Blisterpack]

1 minute ago, Physical_graffiti said:

People who have a different political opinion to you aren't necessarily "idiots who barely know anything". Maybe consider that they could be very well educated.

 

Very much speaking anecdotally, but the ones I know who do it are against the murder of innocent people (all innocent people). As these attacks from Israel are currently happening on a huge scale against innocent Palestinians, including babies and children, and supported by our government, you can understand the desire to protest.

but why aren't they holding banners demanding the release of hostages?

[tarw]

4 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I know a lot about Israel.  I also know that much of the Middle East, certainly in terms of the nations we know today, is very 'young'. Not just Israel, but also Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE: all 20th century constructs built out of post war (and post-colonial) settlements. It's a very common way for the world to be carved up. Europe has been there many times.  

That is probably a large part of the problem. Any artificial creation of borders will always lead to problems. Look at the partitioning of Ireland and India that our country was responsible for. 

[Blisterpack]

15 minutes ago, tarw said:

Likewise the current Israeli government are putting pressure on any other countries to stop them from recognising Palestine. 
It’s a very complex situation and to pretend it’s all one sided is ignorance. I hope that there is a new government in Israel that will take a different approach, even Thatcher’s government held talks with the IRA which led to peace

'recognising Palestine' at the moment is not that straightforward though.  It brings a legitimacy to Hamas (as a controlling administration) that is a proscribed terrorist group and is actually holding hostages. In some ways it could extend the problem rather than resolve it. The two state solution is what everybody wanted at the outset and it remains the goal but in some ways those states need to be settled and to recognise the legitimacy of each other. Probably do-able in terms of the West Bank, but no way with Gaza. 

[Blisterpack]

3 minutes ago, tarw said:

That is probably a large part of the problem. Any artificial creation of borders will always lead to problems. Look at the partitioning of Ireland and India that our country was responsible for. 

all political borders (by and large) are artificial.