Things can only get better

[Physical_graffiti]

Just now, Blisterpack said:

but why aren't they holding banners demanding the release of hostages?

Why aren't they protesting the war in Sudan? If you're going to protest a bad thing, why not protest every single other bad thing in the world?

 

Whilst I'm sure those protesting the Israeli government would also want the release of hostages, end to the war in Sudan, and for the price of Freddos not be increased, I would argue the death and destruction currently being committed by the Israeli government is on a much, much larger scale to anything else going on in the world, so you'd therefore imagine this would provoke the most protests. It is also supported by our government, and the point of the protest is to put pressure on our government to put pressure on Israel to stop it.

[gfa]

Why is there a politics thread in the glasto boards....

 

haven't we learnt this is a rubbish idea?

[Blisterpack]

7 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

'recognising Palestine' at the moment is not that straightforward though.  It brings a legitimacy to Hamas (as a controlling administration) that is a proscribed terrorist group and is actually holding hostages. In some ways it could extend the problem rather than resolve it. The two state solution is what everybody wanted at the outset and it remains the goal but in some ways those states need to be settled and to recognise the legitimacy of each other. Probably do-able in terms of the West Bank, but no way with Gaza. 

just to add, it would probably be easier without Netanyahu and the opposition forces in Israel are growing. That is the beauty of a democracy.  

[Physical_graffiti]

1 minute ago, gfa said:

Why is there a politics thread in the glasto boards....

 

haven't we learnt this is a rubbish idea?

Glasto is explicitly political, and with it happening right before an election, and Israel/Palestine probably something that will come up a  fair few times among the performers and crowd at the festival - it's a legitimate thing to discuss/debate/speculate on, and how it might affect glastonbury. People don't have to read or engage if they don't want to.

[Blisterpack]

8 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

Why aren't they protesting the war in Sudan? If you're going to protest a bad thing, why not protest every single other bad thing in the world?

 

Whilst I'm sure those protesting the Israeli government would also want the release of hostages, end to the war in Sudan, and for the price of Freddos not be increased, I would argue the death and destruction currently being committed by the Israeli government is on a much, much larger scale to anything else going on in the world, so you'd therefore imagine this would provoke the most protests. It is also supported by our government, and the point of the protest is to put pressure on our government to put pressure on Israel to stop it.

Mad take that. Comparing the hostage situation to the price of Freddos.... really?

[Colorblindjames]

18 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

but why aren't they holding banners demanding the release of hostages?

The hostages Israel is holding? 

 

if you are referring to the ones Hamas are holding there’s no need to protest about that because our government doesn’t support Hamas. 

[gfa]

4 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

Glasto is explicitly political, and with it happening right before an election, and Israel/Palestine probably something that will come up a  fair few times among the performers and crowd at the festival - it's a legitimate thing to discuss/debate/speculate on, and how it might affect glastonbury. People don't have to read or engage if they don't want to.

The point is it always turns into a binfire on this website.

 

I love talking politics but keep it to the politics thread

Also its a General Election thread now talking about hamas - its not even on topic!!

Edited May 23 by gfa

[Physical_graffiti]

3 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Mad take that. Comparing the hostage situation to the price of Freddos.... really?

Yes, that's exactly what I did 🙂

[Colorblindjames]

9 minutes ago, gfa said:

Why is there a politics thread in the glasto boards....

 

haven't we learnt this is a rubbish idea?

Your head is gonna explode when you see the left field tent. 

[gfa]

2 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Your head is gonna explode when you see the left field tent. 

read my reply above

[Blisterpack]

4 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

Yes, that's exactly what I did 🙂

you literally did. Israeli hostages, war in Sudan, increase in price of Freddos, all as possible additions for people to protest about in addition to the actions of Israel in Gaza. 

[tarw]

@Blisterpack I would love to meet you at the festival and get your views on the situation. I am open minded and will listen to the views of anyone. I might disagree with those views but I am open to change my opinion. You have said before that you feel threatened people asking you about it. I don’t think that you need to be - at Glastonbury anyway. 

[kaosmark2]

Mod note

 

We're leaving this thread up for now, as Glastonbury is political, D:Ream are playing, and this song was part of the '97 election. Organic discussion is of course welcome.

 

That said, please have a reminder that we have a UK politics and International Politics thread over in the discussion section, and we'd urge users to focus most ongoing and in-depth political conversations over there.

 

If this thread starts to descend into name calling and insults, those comments will be edited or deleted, and the thread locked.

 

 

[tarw]

3 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Mod note

 

We're leaving this thread up for now, as Glastonbury is political, D:Ream are playing, and this song was part of the '97 election. Organic discussion is of course welcome.

 

That said, please have a reminder that we have a UK politics and International Politics thread over in the discussion section, and we'd urge users to focus most ongoing and in-depth political conversations over there.

 

If this thread starts to descend into name calling and insults, those comments will be edited or deleted, and the thread locked.

 

 

Out of reactions so thanks. Best thing to do imo

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, tarw said:

@Blisterpack I would love to meet you at the festival and get your views on the situation. I am open minded and will listen to the views of anyone. I might disagree with those views but I am open to change my opinion. You have said before that you feel threatened people asking you about it. I don’t think that you need to be - at Glastonbury anyway. 

I go every year with a group of friends who are jewish. They have family in Tel Aviv. Proud to be Jewish, the most peaceful and respectful people you will ever meet. Massively anti-Netanyahu, proud of their country but always fearful of the risks they face from their neighbours. 

We were very close to putting our tickets back in the pot this year; our friends fear that the atmosphere may be hostile to Israel, a country they see as the home of their people (though they live in London). We are going but I suspect we will have to be careful about where we go, who we see etc because much as some on here think it's no biggie - it is difficult to listen to some who sometimes appear to be lionising terrorists, or at least giving them the succour that they are thriving on. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Blisterpack said:

I go every year with a group of friends who are jewish. They have family in Tel Aviv. Proud to be Jewish, the most peaceful and respectful people you will ever meet. Massively anti-Netanyahu, proud of their country but always fearful of the risks they face from their neighbours. 

We were very close to putting our tickets back in the pot this year; our friends fear that the atmosphere may be hostile to Israel, a country they see as the home of their people (though they live in London). We are going but I suspect we will have to be careful about where we go, who we see etc because much as some on here think it's no biggie - it is difficult to listen to some who sometimes appear to be lionising terrorists, or at least giving them the succour that they are thriving on. 

Come along to the meet and you’ll be more than welcome … just like absolutely any other posters on the forum . And I’d very much imagine festival wide 

[Skip997]

I suspect we will have to be careful about where we go, who we see etc because much as some on here think it's no biggie - it is difficult to listen to some who sometimes appear to be lionising terrorists, or at least giving them the succour that they are thriving on. 

1 minute ago, Blisterpack said:

There are plenty of Jewish people who attend the so called “pro Palestinian” demo’s without issue. Am confident that Glastonbury will be fine 

[tarw]

2 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I go every year with a group of friends who are jewish. They have family in Tel Aviv. Proud to be Jewish, the most peaceful and respectful people you will ever meet. Massively anti-Netanyahu, proud of their country but always fearful of the risks they face from their neighbours. 

We were very close to putting our tickets back in the pot this year; our friends fear that the atmosphere may be hostile to Israel, a country they see as the home of their people (though they live in London). We are going but I suspect we will have to be careful about where we go, who we see etc because much as some on here think it's no biggie - it is difficult to listen to some who sometimes appear to be lionising terrorists, or at least giving them the succour that they are thriving on. 

I think that’s very sad. I would say that nearly every person who protests about the actions of the Israeli government is not lionising Hamas but purely the actions of the government 

[kaosmark2]

8 minutes ago, tarw said:

Out of reactions so thanks. Best thing to do imo

Yeah. We're not looking to shut down discussion or anything, but we had a brief chat about it and figured just a gentle nudge to the right places and a reminder to be civil might be worthwhile.

[pandahands]

17 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Mod note

 

We're leaving this thread up for now, as Glastonbury is political, D:Ream are playing, and this song was part of the '97 election. Organic discussion is of course welcome.

 

That said, please have a reminder that we have a UK politics and International Politics thread over in the discussion section, and we'd urge users to focus most ongoing and in-depth political conversations over there.

 

If this thread starts to descend into name calling and insults, those comments will be edited or deleted, and the thread locked.

 

 

And yet, you both decided to lock the thread raising awareness of Paul Currie getting cancelled by the festival that spiraled into the same binfire re Israel vs Palestine as this one. Where's the consistency?

[kaosmark2]

Just now, pandahands said:

And yet, you both decided to lock the thread raising awareness of Paul Currie getting cancelled by the festival that spiraled into the same binfire re Israel vs Palestine as this one. Where's the consistency?

That had already descended into insults at the time, and had become further removed from any link to the original topic of the post.

 

Also, to be clear, we will not be engaging in ongoing public debate about moderation decisions. We will politely respond to questions like this once to make our reasoning clear, but there will not be continued discussion and we will delete any attempts to try and create ongoing arguments about moderation.

[4AssedMonkey]

1 hour ago, al_coholic said:

Referring directly to the topic title, and I am in no way endorsing the Conservatives, but I am curious as to what "Things" people think are going to get better after Labour win. 

 

Starmers In Tray will be huge and dealing with Israel, Russia and migration will be high on the list. I also don't think there is much cash around to fix the multitude of socio-economic issues we have in this country. 

 

So in my opinion I don't think "Things" are going to get a lot better for many months or possibly years. But it will be interesting to find out. 

 

This goes to the heart of the problem with party politics.  It is impossible to make any worthwhile changes and see the effects in a single term, so most "things" seemingly rarely change.  That said, "things" have certainly gotten worse under an extended period of Tory rule and would likely improve for anyone in the UK who isn't at least a millionaire under an extended period of Government from Labour or a coalition which excludes the Tories.

 

This is the best chance in a long time of kicking them out.  I only hope that the left doesn't descend into infighting, tear itself apart again and turn itself into a f**king bin fire like they always do.

[Colorblindjames]

1 minute ago, 4AssedMonkey said:

 

This goes to the heart of the problem with party politics.  It is impossible to make any worthwhile changes and see the effects in a single term, so most "things" seemingly rarely change.  That said, "things" have certainly gotten worse under an extended period of Tory rule and would likely improve for anyone in the UK who isn't at least a millionaire under an extended period of Government from Labour or a coalition which excludes the Tories.

 

This is the best chance in a long time of kicking them out.  I only hope that the left doesn't descend into infighting, tear itself apart again and turn itself into a f**king bin fire like they always do.

Those asking for Labour loyalty weren’t very loyal last time out. They can get in the bin now as far as I’m concerned.

[Ell99]

33 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I go every year with a group of friends who are jewish. They have family in Tel Aviv. Proud to be Jewish, the most peaceful and respectful people you will ever meet. Massively anti-Netanyahu, proud of their country but always fearful of the risks they face from their neighbours. 

We were very close to putting our tickets back in the pot this year; our friends fear that the atmosphere may be hostile to Israel, a country they see as the home of their people (though they live in London). We are going but I suspect we will have to be careful about where we go, who we see etc because much as some on here think it's no biggie - it is difficult to listen to some who sometimes appear to be lionising terrorists, or at least giving them the succour that they are thriving on. 

 

Myself and my girlfriend are both Jewish and will be attending too. We are in a big group of both Jews and non Jews and agree that it is a very sensitive topic.

 

As one poster rightly mentions above, lots of Jews do attend the Pro-Palestinian marches and do so feeling very comfortable within the Jewish-bloc there. As they are rightly marching for and advocating for peace - a foundation of the Jewish religion. However, many Jews that I know, would not feel comfortable partaking. 

 

Myself and mf GF have naturally been talking a lot about what Glastonbury will be like this year. I totally expect there to be a lot of Palestinian flags and mentions of the War by performers. Now - this is the point that is difficult for non-Jews to completely understand or appreciate, and something that I have found it hard to articulate to my non-Jewish friends but I will give it a go:

 

When I see throngs of people with Palestinian flags and chanting "free Palestine" - sentiments that I 100% agree with and would advocate for a two state solution. It does still trigger something within me and gives me a viceral reaction in my gut. This has happened a few times at gigs in the last 6 months when chants from the crowd or performers have come out of the blue and taken my attention away from the music.

 

As people will have no doubt seen levels of anti-semitism have drastically risen since Oct 7th, and I know that the rational part of me is telling me that the vast majority of these people on the marches, don't have anything against Jewish people. However, the sad fact is, that some do have within them, even if it is a slight unconscious bias, traits of anti-semitism. I believe that this is because the complexity of the situation - being anti the Israeli government, questioning the formation of the state of Israel, the fact that these war-mongering people are all Jewish - this cocktail gets mixed up and can lead anti-Israel sentiments to become anti-Jewish.

 

The crux of it is, that for me, when I ask myself if I would feel comfortable pronouncing to these people that I am Jewish, I would have some trepidation. It is a feeling of isolation which is horrible to have. As a liberal person that has been brought up in London, feeling a sense of alienation is really unpleasant and not something that I ever thought I would have to contend with as a Jew. 

 

I still can't wait for Glastonbury, will have a brilliant time - but I know these slight feelings of unease will crop up, and that applies for several Jews that I know attending the festival. And may I reiterate - that is despite the fact that we all maintain the sentiments that we want this war over, that the innocent killing of Palestinian's is abysmal, but also not forgetting that the hostages held in Gaza must be released, and that the atrocities of Oct 7th cannot be forgotten, especially for a people who have historically suffered so greatly.  

Edited May 23 by Ell99

[stuie]

1 hour ago, Blisterpack said:

Give Starmers's wikipedia page a read. Seriously, he is the sort of working class intellectual heavyweight that the country has been screaming out for since Wilson. You are so right, it's not going to look perfect straight away but he will change the culture of Government and that should bring trust and confidence that those in charge actually know what they are doing and actually care. 

^This. 

And even if nothing changes at all for years, having a government that doesn’t stoke hatred and seek to divide us and constantly gaslight us will be good for the country.