Football 2024/25

[charlierc]

9 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Whilst I agree it should be an English man, there's no one really suitable.

 

It's also quite amusing when the premier league is ful of overseas ownerships, managers, players, fans.

 

If they looked at that, there may be a more qualified English managers to take over. Again if you look at recent history like Low and Scaloni, does it need a bells and whistle manager. 

 

Southgate was not a bells and whistles manager and got close to 2 Euros tbf, so I can get that idea.

 

It is a curio imo to change tack, but it will be fascinating to see if this works out. And if a national team reflects the football culture of a country at large, surely importing a manager is on brand for it. Indeed I think there's a few Man United fans annoyed they didn't act quicker to bring Tuchel to Old Trafford, though that could just be allied to their dismay that ten Hag hasn't been told to go away yet.

 

Seems like a few nations might be in this boat, mind. Brazil thought they had a genuine shout at landing Carlo Ancelotti this time last year, to the point where they were genuinely ambushed by him signing a new Real Madrid contract, and also seem to want Guardiola to one day go their way.

[pink_triangle]

9 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Whilst I agree it should be an English man, there's no one really suitable.

 

 

It's also quite amusing when the premier league is ful of overseas ownerships, managers, players, fans.

 

If they looked at that, there may be a more qualified English managers to take over. Again if you look at recent history like Low and Scaloni, does it need a bells and whistle manager. 

 

It’s also hard to see an English manager getting the type of job that would make them “suitable “.

 

 

[charlierc]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

It’s also hard to see an English manager getting the type of job that would make them “suitable “.

I think that's the bigger issue as well. No English manager has won a Premier League-era top flight title, an FA Cup since 2008 (Redknapp with Portsmouth) or a Carabao/Capital One/Carling/EFL Cup since 2004 (McClaren with Middlesbrough). English managers have ofc got top 6 finishes or shown decent potential, but if none of the rich six are willing to take a chance on an English manager - and indeed the Graham Potter debacle at Chelsea may not have helped with this - it's not going to help.

[thetime]

4 hours ago, charlierc said:

I think that's the bigger issue as well. No English manager has won a Premier League-era top flight title, an FA Cup since 2008 (Redknapp with Portsmouth) or a Carabao/Capital One/Carling/EFL Cup since 2004 (McClaren with Middlesbrough). English managers have ofc got top 6 finishes or shown decent potential, but if none of the rich six are willing to take a chance on an English manager - and indeed the Graham Potter debacle at Chelsea may not have helped with this - it's not going to help.

 

The only viable one is Eddie Howe which we've alluded to recently. Which I also see a bit far fetched.

 

Premier league doesn't have much English about it, so why should those clubs appoint English mangers? Unfortunately English football has built a beast. 

[pink_triangle]

8 hours ago, thetime said:

 

The only viable one is Eddie Howe which we've alluded to recently. Which I also see a bit far fetched.

 

Premier league doesn't have much English about it, so why should those clubs appoint English mangers? Unfortunately English football has built a beast. 

It’s far fetched based on the perception from England fans what qualifications someone should need to be England manager. You look at the record of the Argentina manager and may question if those perceptions are correct.

[NorthernSoul52]

Honestly, think Potter's processes would have worked, but happy with Tuchel.

 

The big question is simply if he can adapt to the lack of micromanagement you'd have within international football. A strength Southgate seemed to have was the ability to liase successfully with clubs over players in the run-up to tournament time. It'll be a skill honed in St. George's.

 

Tuchel will need to find a way to make that work for him.

[charlierc]

4 hours ago, NorthernSoul52 said:

Honestly, think Potter's processes would have worked, but happy with Tuchel.

 

The big question is simply if he can adapt to the lack of micromanagement you'd have within international football. A strength Southgate seemed to have was the ability to liase successfully with clubs over players in the run-up to tournament time. It'll be a skill honed in St. George's.

 

Tuchel will need to find a way to make that work for him.

I've heard he has previous - apparently at Chelsea he came up with the master blueprint that turned things around and helped them win the Champions League while on the way to London to take his first training session, and those who covered Chelsea in 2020/21 say it was notably quick how they took on board his change in philosophy.

[charlierc]

15 hours ago, thetime said:

 

The only viable one is Eddie Howe which we've alluded to recently. Which I also see a bit far fetched.

 

Premier league doesn't have much English about it, so why should those clubs appoint English mangers? Unfortunately English football has built a beast. 

 

7 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

It’s far fetched based on the perception from England fans what qualifications someone should need to be England manager. You look at the record of the Argentina manager and may question if those perceptions are correct.

You even had this with Southgate tbf - his prior experience as a manager was getting Middlesbrough relegated and England U21s, yet in the England job, he just got it, and it's not something you necessarily would've seen coming from such a skinny CV.

 

Much as I'm aware that, in a way, the England team is reflecting the league as a whole, given it seems genuinely difficult for English coaches to get a shot even with mid-table sides, let alone the big guns that are first in the queue to win stuff.

[thetime]

48 minutes ago, charlierc said:

 

You even had this with Southgate tbf - his prior experience as a manager was getting Middlesbrough relegated and England U21s, yet in the England job, he just got it, and it's not something you necessarily would've seen coming from such a skinny CV.

 

Much as I'm aware that, in a way, the England team is reflecting the league as a whole, given it seems genuinely difficult for English coaches to get a shot even with mid-table sides, let alone the big guns that are first in the queue to win stuff.

 

It's been happening for a long time, can't see it changing. 

 

Chelsea have had 15 permanent managers since hoddle, 2 were English.

 

United not had one since Ron Atkinson in the mid 80s. 

 

City not had one since they got new money. 

 

Liverpool 2 English managers since Joe Fagan 1983.

 

Arsenal not had one since Done Howe 1983. 

 

Spurs have had a couple in 20 years, Everton and villa have had a few down recent years. 

 

Your club seem to have English managers consistently. 

 

 

 

[NorthernSoul52]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

I've heard he has previous - apparently at Chelsea he came up with the master blueprint that turned things around and helped them win the Champions League while on the way to London to take his first training session, and those who covered Chelsea in 2020/21 say it was notably quick how they took on board his change in philosophy.

Sounds positive. We'll see how he can work out.

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

 

It's been happening for a long time, can't see it changing. 

 

Chelsea have had 15 permanent managers since hoddle, 2 were English.

 

United not had one since Ron Atkinson in the mid 80s. 

 

City not had one since they got new money. 

 

Liverpool 2 English managers since Joe Fagan 1983.

 

Arsenal not had one since Done Howe 1983. 

 

Spurs have had a couple in 20 years, Everton and villa have had a few down recent years. 

 

Your club seem to have English managers consistently. 

I'd have taken a non-British manager in 2004 rather than the disaster Graeme Souness turned out to be tbf.

 

But I'm aware that English managers just aren't in vogue - Howe, Dyche and O'Neil, the latter of whom is under pressure, is all that there is for English managers in the PL this season, even if Welshman Steve Cooper has previously worked in the England set-up and both former Scottish international Russell Martin and Northern Irish international Kieran McKenna were born in England.

[charlierc]

We'll set aside how Newcastle losing to Brighton already makes me feel nostalgic for an international break and not having to worry about that.

 

I'm struggling to tell if Man City's late winner should've been allowed following the VAR review or not. Though I will declare that I think Jose Sa should've saved the header regardless.

[thetime]

56 minutes ago, charlierc said:

We'll set aside how Newcastle losing to Brighton already makes me feel nostalgic for an international break and not having to worry about that.

 

I'm struggling to tell if Man City's late winner should've been allowed following the VAR review or not. Though I will declare that I think Jose Sa should've saved the header regardless.

 

Citys goal should of stood for me, it's one of them goals that could of gone either way. 

 

Newcastle needed a win yesterday, with chelsea twice and arsenal in the next 3. 

[thetime]

Liverpool look so much better without klopps histrionics. 

[charlierc]

23 hours ago, thetime said:

 

Citys goal should of stood for me, it's one of them goals that could of gone either way. 

 

Newcastle needed a win yesterday, with chelsea twice and arsenal in the next 3. 

I think we can get a result from one of those three but yes. Not ideal. Isak looked unfit and the back-up options just aren't up to snuff. New right-winger might have to be a January purchase.

[charlierc]

Barcelona v Atletico Madrid could be first La Liga match held in United States - BBC Sport

 

This is an escalating choice given that when they had a failed attempt, it was intended to be Barcelona v Girona. I know there's a degree of cash-chasing too given they already have the Spanish Super Cup in Saudi Arabia, but if this does go ahead as planned, Jesus wept.

[NorthernSoul52]

Big up The New Saints!

[thetime]

On 10/22/2024 at 5:34 PM, charlierc said:

Barcelona v Atletico Madrid could be first La Liga match held in United States - BBC Sport

 

This is an escalating choice given that when they had a failed attempt, it was intended to be Barcelona v Girona. I know there's a degree of cash-chasing too given they already have the Spanish Super Cup in Saudi Arabia, but if this does go ahead as planned, Jesus wept.

 

Not a great surprise and will happen in the premier league. Football sold its soul many years ago.

 

No point moaning about it going around the world. Especially when English owners of the clubs are very thin. 

 

 

[charlierc]

Just now, thetime said:

 

Not a great surprise and will happen in the premier league. Football sold its soul many years ago.

 

No point moaning about it going around the world. Especially when English owners of the clubs are very thin. 

 

 

I'm aware this boundary has been close for a while. UEFA even talked up the idea of holding a Champions League final in America. But it's still feeling like how many more sharks do we need to jump. And I say this aware of how much controversy there is around our owners (although ironically the 15% owned by two of Boris Johnson's mates gives Newcastle more English ownership than some other clubs).

[thetime]

47 minutes ago, charlierc said:

 the 15% owned by two of Boris Johnson's mates gives Newcastle more English ownership than some other clubs).

That is stretching it somewhat.

 

Utd are still American owned.

 

It does amuse me though, when overseas games get muted and everyone up in arms. 

 

Limited English ownership, managers, players. Why would overseas ownership care about the traditions of the game? 

 

Pre season tournaments being so popular, clubs wanting world domination of overseas fans. It's coming. 

[charlierc]

3 hours ago, thetime said:

That is stretching it somewhat.

 

Utd are still American owned.

 

It does amuse me though, when overseas games get muted and everyone up in arms. 

 

Limited English ownership, managers, players. Why would overseas ownership care about the traditions of the game? 

 

Pre season tournaments being so popular, clubs wanting world domination of overseas fans. It's coming. 

Oh totally. I'm aware that my comment about the Reubens at Newcastle was quite the stretch.

 

I know this has been talked up for a while - think 15/16 years ago the Premier League first mooted the idea of a game 39 being played as a ceremonial extra game where there would be a randomly drawn extra game between teams held in January outside the UK, and the idea was met with a lot of disdain.

 

I'm aware that clubs and leagues around the world have been pushing this, given obviously we already have NFL games in the UK and their basketball league now has games in France, but I guess this is a sport where there's just a lot more noise generated.

 

I don't necessarily think PL games abroad is imminent but I guess we'll see who is the first to try and make a leap for it.

[charlierc]

Huh. Didn't see Barcelona walloping Real Madrid in El Clasico coming. I thought they might win but that's something else, and a decent week from them given they finally beat Bayern Munich in the week.

[thetime]

Dalot 🤣

[Neil]

the "not a sacking club" have been sacking again!!!

[charlierc]

Ten Hag being fired is not that great a surprise, although such are the margins in football that the final moment that made this sacking happen was a comically soft penalty given to West Ham yesterday. But in retrospect, I have no idea why he was kept on beyond the summer given INEOS talked to people to replace him then decided nobody was better.

 

No idea who'll be next either.