Football 2024/25

[thetime]

56 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Ten Hag being fired is not that great a surprise, although such are the margins in football that the final moment that made this sacking happen was a comically soft penalty given to West Ham yesterday. But in retrospect, I have no idea why he was kept on beyond the summer given INEOS talked to people to replace him then decided nobody was better.

 

No idea who'll be next either. 

 

Big talk on Amorim already being agreed. 

 

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

Big talk on Amorim already being agreed. 

So I have seen with him as the first big link. Brentford's Thomas Frank was mentioned by one or two people but Amorim seems to be first in the queue, and given he was linked with quite a few PL jobs including Liverpool and West Ham and even as a Pep successor on the other side of Manchester, could be a decent hire.

[thetime]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

So I have seen with him as the first big link. Brentford's Thomas Frank was mentioned by one or two people but Amorim seems to be first in the queue, and given he was linked with quite a few PL jobs including Liverpool and West Ham and even as a Pep successor on the other side of Manchester, could be a decent hire.

 

More to do with the players. 

 

It will be the same cycle of top 4 finish, bad season and then sacked. 

[charlierc]

11 hours ago, thetime said:

 

More to do with the players. 

 

It will be the same cycle of top 4 finish, bad season and then sacked. 

We do seem close to the threshold tbf where we go from "the right manager appointment can fix this" to "yeah, it's just a f**king mess with no smooth way out"

 

At the very least the successor is going to have to do better in the transfer market rather than being the kind of guy who thinks throwing £20million over Ajax's asking price for Antony is a good idea.

[lost]

Its difficult to like Real Madrid sometimes. Absolute playground stuff at the awards last night. I get that he played for Athletico but you'd like to think clubs support players from the same country.

[Neil]

Moyes is still available to take the utd job

[thetime]

Looks like Amorim it is.

 

 

[charlierc]

5 hours ago, Neil said:

Moyes is still available to take the utd job

Much as I think he might like a redemption arc like he had at West Ham, I think that ship has sailed with Sporting confirming that Man U are looking to buy Amorim out of his contract in Lisbon.

[thetime]

33 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Much as I think he might like a redemption arc like he had at West Ham, I think that ship has sailed with Sporting confirming that Man U are looking to buy Amorim out of his contract in Lisbon.

 

How is Eddie Howe's position perceived at Newcastle? Down to 12th with arsenal at the weekend.

[charlierc]

41 minutes ago, thetime said:

How is Eddie Howe's position perceived at Newcastle? Down to 12th with arsenal at the weekend.

I can't say I'm speaking for all fans here. But I think there's two things going on.

 

On the one hand, we had an incoherent summer where we screwed up in the transfer market and there seems to be unresolved tension from changes at boardroom level, so there's sympathy for Howe that he's being asked to replicate 2022/23 with a stale squad that's missing things in certain areas.

 

But on the other, we're in a tactical style that looks like it's reached the limit of what it can achieve, with a slow defensive line, midfield that is just too easy to bypass and an inability to build coherent moves down the right flank. The mentality of some of our players has also looked off for a lot of this season. I know there's been a few games where we nearly got it right - Isak not squaring for Joelinton to tap in on Sunday was real WTF territory - but equally, it's 5 without a win and a lot of the underlying stats suggest we're playing like a midtable team right now. You won't get happiness when you slump like that.

 

There's always some fans who will say changing manager in the solution, but that happens all the time so that's hardly unique in this case. I do think that if we lose the Carabao tie with Chelsea tomorrow, then fail to beat Arsenal on Saturday and have another fruitless day at Forest in the last one before the next international break, making it 8 without a win in all competitions, that's going to turn the temperature up. Wouldn't say it'll necessarily guarantee a sacking but it won't help.

Edited October 29 by charlierc

[thetime]

10 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I can't say I'm speaking for all fans here. But I think there's two things going on.

 

On the one hand, we had an incoherent summer where we screwed up in the transfer market and there seems to be unresolved tension from changes at boardroom level, so there's sympathy for Howe that he's being asked to replicate 2022/23 with a stale squad that's missing things in certain areas.

 

But on the other, we're in a tactical style that looks like it's reached the limit of what it can achieve, with a slow defensive line, midfield that is just too easy to bypass and an inability to build coherent moves down the right flank. The mentality of some of our players has also looked off for a lot of this season. I know there's been a few games where we nearly got it right - Isak not squaring for Joelinton to tap in on Sunday was real WTF territory - but equally, it's 5 without a win and a lot of the underlying stats suggest we're playing like a midtable team right now. You won't get happiness when you slump like that.

 

There's always some fans who will say changing manager in the solution, but that happens all the time so that's hardly unique in this case. I do think that if we lose the Carabao tie with Chelsea tomorrow, then fail to beat Arsenal on Saturday and have another fruitless day at Forest in the last one before the next international break, making it 8 without a win in all competitions, that's going to turn the temperature up. Wouldn't say it'll necessarily guarantee a sacking but it won't help.

 

He's probably got off a bit lightly with the money spent, with all the media attention on Ten Hag.

 

Can see him having lots of pressure next few weeks. 

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

I can't say I'm speaking for all fans here. But I think there's two things going on.

 

On the one hand, we had an incoherent summer where we screwed up in the transfer market and there seems to be unresolved tension from changes at boardroom level, so there's sympathy for Howe that he's being asked to replicate 2022/23 with a stale squad that's missing things in certain areas.

 

But on the other, we're in a tactical style that looks like it's reached the limit of what it can achieve, with a slow defensive line, midfield that is just too easy to bypass and an inability to build coherent moves down the right flank. The mentality of some of our players has also looked off for a lot of this season. I know there's been a few games where we nearly got it right - Isak not squaring for Joelinton to tap in on Sunday was real WTF territory - but equally, it's 5 without a win and a lot of the underlying stats suggest we're playing like a midtable team right now. You won't get happiness when you slump like that.

 

There's always some fans who will say changing manager in the solution, but that happens all the time so that's hardly unique in this case. I do think that if we lose the Carabao tie with Chelsea tomorrow, then fail to beat Arsenal on Saturday and have another fruitless day at Forest in the last one before the next international break, making it 8 without a win in all competitions, that's going to turn the temperature up. Wouldn't say it'll necessarily guarantee a sacking but it won't help.

 

I'd agree with most of this. I would say that for all the fact we'd been picking up points playing badly earlier in the season, I thought the performance where we drew against City got me hopeful, as I think that's possibly our best display since thrashing PSG a year ago. But there's been nothing since, in performance or points, which I'm finding worrying.

 

I think Howe has managed to shift tactics a little bit, but I can't see us building good moves down the right regularly starting without a signing. Almiron having a stunning 18months kinda masked over it for a bit, but that's now looking like an extended purple patch instead of anything sustainable.

[NorthernSoul52]

Mate dropped a depressing stat on me this morning - since 2003-04, no English manager has overseen more UCL games than Frank Lampard.

[thetime]

2 hours ago, NorthernSoul52 said:

Mate dropped a depressing stat on me this morning - since 2003-04, no English manager has overseen more UCL games than Frank Lampard.

To be fair those playing in the Champions league regularly, don't employ English managers. 

 

Which is a valid reason why England can't get one. 

Edited October 30 by thetime

[NorthernSoul52]

All this talk about "English managers" the press was having over Southgate's successor - well, we either don't produce them or we don't give them the chances anymore.

[thetime]

48 minutes ago, NorthernSoul52 said:

All this talk about "English managers" the press was having over Southgate's successor - well, we either don't produce them or we don't give them the chances anymore.

 

I don't think they've been given chances for a long time.

 

Chelsea have had a couple, other than that your clubs who play in the Champions league regularly don't employ English managers. 

 

When you have a league full of overseas ownerships, why would they care about the English coaches. 

Edited October 30 by thetime

[charlierc]

3 hours ago, thetime said:

I don't think they've been given chances for a long time.

 

Chelsea have had a couple, other than that your clubs who play in the Champions league regularly don't employ English managers. 

 

When you have a league full of overseas ownerships, why would they care about the English coaches. 

Potter's failure at Chelsea, even with the club being an unmanageable basketcase in 2022/23, hasn't really helped sell big clubs on it. It's that strange balance where it would've been interesting to see Man Utd or Liverpool look at one with their recent vacancies, but both clubs are in the business of winning trophies and wanted a manager with trophy wins on their CV, which leads to it being a foreign manager by default.

 

Even if we're naturally at the risk of echoing Sam Allardyce infamously claiming he'd have got asked to manage Man Utd if he was Sam Allardicio.

[charlierc]

18 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I'd agree with most of this. I would say that for all the fact we'd been picking up points playing badly earlier in the season, I thought the performance where we drew against City got me hopeful, as I think that's possibly our best display since thrashing PSG a year ago. But there's been nothing since, in performance or points, which I'm finding worrying.

 

I think Howe has managed to shift tactics a little bit, but I can't see us building good moves down the right regularly starting without a signing. Almiron having a stunning 18months kinda masked over it for a bit, but that's now looking like an extended purple patch instead of anything sustainable.

The performances against Man City, Everton and Brighton were good enough to win the games, but the lack of a killer instinct up front hurts. Wide right is a definite problem area - Murphy and Almiron are out of form, Gordon and Barnes both play better on the left and playing Isak in a wide role leaves us without a proper striker. So this will have to be addressed. Brentford's Mbuemo is being talked up as a dream target and in fairness, he would be a great signing judging by his form at Brentford, though it's hard to imagine the Bees would let him go.

 

It is noticeable that we play a different tactical style to boot, but it seems like one that would be a better fit for a different squad to ours. It seems like we need quicker centre-backs than Burn & Schar if we're going to have a midfield that all fly forward in a 3-man line.

[thetime]

10 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Potter's failure at Chelsea, even with the club being an unmanageable basketcase in 2022/23, hasn't really helped sell big clubs on it. It's that strange balance where it would've been interesting to see Man Utd or Liverpool look at one with their recent vacancies, but both clubs are in the business of winning trophies and wanted a manager with trophy wins on their CV, which leads to it being a foreign manager by default.

 

Even if we're naturally at the risk of echoing Sam Allardyce infamously claiming he'd have got asked to manage Man Utd if he was Sam Allardicio.

 

It's a difficult situation, which I can not see improving in the future.

 

Southgate may pick one up, but perhaps clubs will stay clear due to his popularity. 

[charlierc]

Beat Chelsea 2-0 in the Carabao. And to think I was worried.

[charlierc]

Huh. Didn't see Newcastle beating Arsenal coming, but very happy to do so. Particularly as it gives me bragging rights over the multiple Arsenal supporting friends and family I have.

[kaosmark2]

5 hours ago, charlierc said:

Huh. Didn't see Newcastle beating Arsenal coming, but very happy to do so. Particularly as it gives me bragging rights over the multiple Arsenal supporting friends and family I have.

Good performance as well. Arguably the best our backline has looked all season, and some sharp behaviour on the counter.

[thetime]

Very surprised Coventry have sacked Robins. Coventry were on the road to nowhere before he took over, were on there way to league 2. 

 

Got them promoted to the Championship, within one game to the premier league. Also within a toe of achieving the impossible to the FA Cup final. 

[charlierc]

5 hours ago, thetime said:

Very surprised Coventry have sacked Robins. Coventry were on the road to nowhere before he took over, were on there way to league 2. 

 

Got them promoted to the Championship, within one game to the premier league. Also within a toe of achieving the impossible to the FA Cup final. 

I know a Coventry fan or two and they are furious. They are also bewildered given they made similarly slow starts in the last two seasons but they both ended up going very well, and they'd recently played well in wins over Luton and Middlesbrough - sides who've been in the Prem more recently.

 

So yeah. I can see why they're totally mystified by this choice. But what is football if not illogical at times?

[pink_triangle]

10 hours ago, thetime said:

Very surprised Coventry have sacked Robins. Coventry were on the road to nowhere before he took over, were on there way to league 2. 

 

Got them promoted to the Championship, within one game to the premier league. Also within a toe of achieving the impossible to the FA Cup final. 

I remember watching Coventry in the league 2 play off semi finals as a neutral against Notts county. They looked a complete different level to me and not surprised they have done well.