Football 2024/25

[gary1979666]

2 hours ago, charlierc said:

So a last minute equaliser for Italy last night that put Croatia pretty much out means that England are through to the last 16, along with France and the Netherlands.

 

I guess it's something.

Still pressure for tonight though....lose and we play Portugal, draw and it's Germany.  Granted, we will likely struggle against whichever team, should we win, but it's all relative!

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, gary1979666 said:

Still pressure for tonight though....lose and we play Portugal, draw and it's Germany.  Granted, we will likely struggle against whichever team, should we win, but it's all relative!

Germany would be a challenge, yeah, not least as some of them were involved in losing at Wembley 3 years ago and might fancy revenge.

[Comfy Bean]

On 6/23/2024 at 10:29 PM, pink_triangle said:

Over the 3 games Scotland didn’t deserve to go through. I thought they were the worst team in each game and one of the poorest teams in tournament. I was convinced this year would be the time they got through, but it just didn’t happen.

 

While I don’t think they played to their potential. I looked at the 5 strikers and they only have 14 international goals between them. They just lack that quality up front and got punished.
 

 

Decent summary 👍

 

We simply don’t have strikers that score at this level so our whole set up is to keep it tight and hope we nick one from midfield. 
 

Feels like an opportunity missed with the number of teams who will qualify.

 

Great adventure, ruined by the football….again 🙈

[Comfy Bean]

On 6/23/2024 at 10:58 PM, charlierc said:

Scotland's performance against Switzerland was alright, but I thought tonight they were pretty terrible. Not as bad as against a Germany team that just overwhelmed them, but tonight they just never looked like scoring, and the defence didn't leave me convinced that it was fully watertight, even if it took until pretty much the final kick for a Hungary breakthrough.

 

 

 

Also hope that Hungarian striker who was knocked out is ok. Was a pretty unsettling moment where they had to rush out a huge medical response to get him treated.

Yeah Switzerland gave us a bit of hope back and I was relatively happy at half time on Sunday. 2nd half was a huge disappointment.

 

Agree with you on the defence. In fairness we were missing 3 certain starters by that point at the back. Feels like we’ve been ok for goalies for years now but not so much at the moment.

 

 

[pink_triangle]

36 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

Decent summary 👍

 

We simply don’t have strikers that score at this level so our whole set up is to keep it tight and hope we nick one from midfield. 
 

Feels like an opportunity missed with the number of teams who will qualify.

 

Great adventure, ruined by the football….again 🙈

As you know I have an interest in Stephen Fletcher who is staying in Wrexham one more year. I looked at his goal record and it was 10 goals in 30 games which I think is pretty decent. I accept he is too old now, but why didn’t he play more games for Scotland? With that kind of record your definitely getting over 50 appearances for Wales.

[charlierc]

17 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

Yeah Switzerland gave us a bit of hope back and I was relatively happy at half time on Sunday. 2nd half was a huge disappointment.

 

Agree with you on the defence. In fairness we were missing 3 certain starters by that point at the back. Feels like we’ve been ok for goalies for years now but not so much at the moment.

 

 

I don't recall being that convinced by Angus Gunn and obviously losing Tierney was an unhelpful blow. But it is what it is I guess. Ultimately there was a joy for Scotland in getting there but just not enough for anything more.

[charlierc]

I was at a Foo Fighters concert last night so had a distraction from watching England-Slovenia, and from what I gather, seeing Grohl and the gang was a better use of my time. And that's even with getting stuck in traffic for most of the way from the Severn Bridge to the city centre or getting price gouged by a car park.

 

Anyway, based solely on written observations, I do wonder if we've all been guilty of unduly raising expectations and crowning England as favourites when the squad's balance issues are a real problem that the manager just cannot seem to fix.

 

If we are to play the Netherlands, one of us is going to have be the better option given the Dutch also look pretty incoherent.

[charlierc]

Well at least the end of the group stage means we can stop guessing who's playing who in the where.

 

Germany, Spain, Portugal, France and Belgium all being shoved into one side of the bracket is a wild imbalance. Although you'd think one of England, Italy, Netherlands, Switzerland and Austria might duly see this as a chance to show up.

[Punksnotdead]

9 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Well at least the end of the group stage means we can stop guessing who's playing who in the where.

 

Germany, Spain, Portugal, France and Belgium all being shoved into one side of the bracket is a wild imbalance. Although you'd think one of England, Italy, Netherlands, Switzerland and Austria might duly see this as a chance to show up.

Can't believe how piss easy England's half of the draw is! If they don't get to the final, Southgate will deserve getting pelted with beer from the fans. 

[pink_triangle]

11 hours ago, Punksnotdead said:

Can't believe how piss easy England's half of the draw is! If they don't get to the final, Southgate will deserve getting pelted with beer from the fans. 

I think it would be dangerous to underestimate the teams in England half of the draw. They have a nice last 16 match (as do Spain and Portugal) but quarter final and semi final could be a lot tougher.

[pink_triangle]

I often find the group stages of the Euros more interesting than the knockouts which are often dull. This is where you get the stories of the teams who aren’t going to win. I suspect Georgia win yesterday will mean as much (if not more ) to their fans than the eventual winner.

[kaosmark2]

The way Switzerland played against Germany I think they're the form favourites of the half. England and Italy have bigger names in their squads, but Switzerland looked simultaneously well-organised and threatening.

 

I also think England would have a much better time playing against teams like Netherlands, Belgium, or even France, who'll try and attack them as opposed to sit and see when England leave a gap to counter-attack.

[pink_triangle]

57 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

The way Switzerland played against Germany I think they're the form favourites of the half. England and Italy have bigger names in their squads, but Switzerland looked simultaneously well-organised and threatening.

 

I also think England would have a much better time playing against teams like Netherlands, Belgium, or even France, who'll try and attack them as opposed to sit and see when England leave a gap to counter-attack.

While I see the logic Southgate has been a bit like Sven in terms of getting past the teams with worse players, but going out as soon as it approaches a 50/50 contest.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

While I see the logic Southgate has been a bit like Sven in terms of getting past the teams with worse players, but going out as soon as it approaches a 50/50 contest.

The knockout win against Germany?

[lost]

I can't believe how lucky he is with draws, you would hope for a win against Slovakia, I also see Switzerland as a potential banana skin, Italy? Well we beat them in the qualifiers but I seem to remember players like Rashford, Grealish and Foden in his correct position doing the work.

[charlierc]

19 hours ago, Punksnotdead said:

Can't believe how piss easy England's half of the draw is! If they don't get to the final, Southgate will deserve getting pelted with beer from the fans. 

 

8 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I think it would be dangerous to underestimate the teams in England half of the draw. They have a nice last 16 match (as do Spain and Portugal) but quarter final and semi final could be a lot tougher.

I mean it's easier than the other side and it is quite remarkable that all of Germany, Spain, France, Portugal and (while fading) Belgium are all on the opposite side of things.

 

However, Switzerland and Italy is a dangerous quarter final to get either which way, and Austria or The Netherlands (who I think would be the two favourites in their R16 ties) won't exactly roll over in the semis.

 

That and ofc first we need to avoid a faceplant against Slovakia.

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

The knockout win against Germany?

Home advantage though which makes it very different and something the likes of Sven never had. It has got me thinking when was the last time England beat one of the big teams in a tournament knockout game without home advantage. I suppose it depends how you define “big” but  struggling to remember one in my lifetime.

[pink_triangle]

9 minutes ago, charlierc said:

 

I mean it's easier than the other side and it is quite remarkable that all of Germany, Spain, France, Portugal and (while fading) Belgium are all on the opposite side of things.

 

 

However, Switzerland and Italy is a dangerous quarter final to get either which way, and Austria or The Netherlands (who I think would be the two favourites in their R16 ties) won't exactly roll over in the semis.

 

That and ofc first we need to avoid a faceplant against Slovakia.

I would rather play Belgium than Austria or Switzerland. They had their big chance when they choked against wales in 2016, in fairness 2018 they were as good as anyone and unlucky, but that to me was their peak.

[charlierc]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I would rather play Belgium than Austria or Switzerland. They had their big chance when they choked against wales in 2016, in fairness 2018 they were as good as anyone and unlucky, but that to me was their peak.

Yeah they would've been worthy champions in 2018 but couldn't beat a stubborn French side in the semis. I think Euro 2016 was too soon for them and the mentality wasn't quite there, as proven by losing to a more street-smart Italy in the groups and choking against Wales. But since that 2018 game it has felt like it's been all the way down.

 

But that's not to look down on Switzerland or Austria either. Both of them look like they would be extremely stubborn and difficult obstacles to overcome.

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Yeah they would've been worthy champions in 2018 but couldn't beat a stubborn French side in the semis. I think Euro 2016 was too soon for them and the mentality wasn't quite there, as proven by losing to a more street-smart Italy in the groups and choking against Wales. But since that 2018 game it has felt like it's been all the way down.

 

But that's not to look down on Switzerland or Austria either. Both of them look like they would be extremely stubborn and difficult obstacles to overcome.

I think France v Belgium was a 50/50 game and in knockout football someone has to lose. Both teams were miles better than England or Croatia so always felt this was the real final.

[charlierc]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I think France v Belgium was a 50/50 game and in knockout football someone has to lose. Both teams were miles better than England or Croatia so always felt this was the real final.

France felt like the best team at the Russia World Cup anyway tbf, though it feels like they've forever been searching for the best way to replicate what they had there. Didn't think they were as good at the last World Cup, even if they were a penalty shoot-out (or indeed a brilliant Martinez save) from making it two in a row.

[kaosmark2]

17 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Home advantage though which makes it very different and something the likes of Sven never had. It has got me thinking when was the last time England beat one of the big teams in a tournament knockout game without home advantage. I suppose it depends how you define “big” but  struggling to remember one in my lifetime.

I still think that win deserves a lot of credit. It was the win that made things feel like something had changed. It is the only example, but I think the "home advantage" is moving the goalposts a bit.

[charlierc]

5 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I still think that win deserves a lot of credit. It was the win that made things feel like something had changed. It is the only example, but I think the "home advantage" is moving the goalposts a bit.

There seem to be a lot of football fans that like to downplay things that go well when they're in a "bollocks to everything" mood.

[pink_triangle]

6 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I still think that win deserves a lot of credit. It was the win that made things feel like something had changed. It is the only example, but I think the "home advantage" is moving the goalposts a bit.

 

England have beaten 2 top team in knockouts in my life (Spain and Germany) both were at home. That could be a coincidence but home advantage is big. The games against Portugal Sven lost I suspect he would have won at least one with home advantage.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, charlierc said:

There seem to be a lot of football fans that like to downplay things that go well when they're in a "bollocks to everything" mood.

In all honesty I don't even think things are THAT bad for England. Struggling against teams set up to defend has been a bit of an issue for a while anyway. The biggest concern is that a few of our attacking players look leggy - Kane in particular but tbh the entire front 4 - and Southgate is hesitant to make substitutions early enough to actually give them a breather and give the subs a chance to impact the game. 

 

I think Gallagher got unfair criticism for the 1st half against Slovenia, he did a lot of good work off the ball covering gaps and stopping passes even being attempted. Mainoo roamed forward a little more, but alongside either Rice just looked so much more comfortable than he had alongside TAA. Either of them or Wharton seem like a suitable partner for Rice and I'm not too worried about the midfield. If Shaw's fit to play 20-30 minutes against Slovenia then can come into the rest of the knockouts, I think that solves 80% of the left-sided issue. 

 

I expect the game against Slovakia to be incredibly dull and uninteresting viewing, although I'll probably watch it anyway. I do think England have more tools to make their campaign click than Belgium, Netherlands, and possibly even France do. The French seem very reliant on an aging Griezmann and an inconsistent Mbappe, and their only plan B option looks to be an aging Giroud.

 

I think England should still be considered 3rd favourites tbh. I had them there behind France and Germany at the start of the tournament, and I'd place them behind Germany and Spain now. I'm not naive enough to think England are in any way comfortable against Switzerland/Italy/Austria, and to a lesser extent Romania, but every team in the tournament has some problems.