Singing / performing live (or not)

[soundofeverything]

I was aware that a lot of performers use backing tracks these days and often what's advertised as "live" isn't exactly that. So was watching out for it at the acts I saw. 

 

It was pretty clear Confidence Man was pretty much all performance, with very little actually "live" in there. Even Dexys were using a guitar & bass backing track. 

 

This video gives some background & examples. 

 

[tarw]

42 minutes ago, soundofeverything said:

I was aware that a lot of performers use backing tracks these days and often what's advertised as "live" isn't exactly that. So was watching out for it at the acts I saw. 

 

It was pretty clear Confidence Man was pretty much all performance, with very little actually "live" in there. Even Dexys were using a guitar & bass backing track. 

 

This video gives some background & examples. 

 

Does it really matter?  I go and watch music I enjoy. I know that there are backing tracks auto tune and effects put on some of them. 
What is the difference between using an effects pedal on a guitar or having an effect put on the vocals?

[Gnomicide]

I've mellowed on this over the years and it's become apparent more and more acts rely on backing tracks to bolster their sound. 

 

My favourite act this year only had drums and vocals live, and you can guarantee that means a click track is involved somewhere, otherwise they'd be all over the shop.

 

I'm still all for live vocals though, I'd rather an out of tune singer than someone miming. I know it's contradictory, but I'm happy with just vocals over backing tracks but not recorded vocals over a live band. 🤷

 

If the people watching don't care, does it really matter? I don't know. I'd still feel kind of cheated if I didn't know and found out later. 

[DeanoL]

Can't see the stage because of the flags, and the music is a backing track... 

[soundofeverything]

34 minutes ago, tarw said:

Does it really matter?  I go and watch music I enjoy. I know that there are backing tracks auto tune and effects put on some of them. 
What is the difference between using an effects pedal on a guitar or having an effect put on the vocals?

I don't think there is a significant difference on an effect on a guitar to one on a vocal. However, that is fairly transparent and understood. 

 

What is not transparent is when you watch a "live" act like Dua Lipa and essentially what you are watching is a performance along to the studio recording with some limited added live instruments & vocal. 

 

Each case is different and could be justified (or not) on the varying facts. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Dua wasn't performing along to studio versions cos there was all sorts of differences e.g. the Bicep interpolation 

[gigpusher]

He loses credibility immediately by saying she headlined on Sunday. 

[Wooderson]

[Pipine]

We’ve been having this discussion on the Dua Lipa thread.. she seemed pretty damned live to me, and to lots of other people I’ve seen post on the topic elsewhere, including sound engineers.

 
Most live shows these days contain some elements such as backing tracks, autotune etc, technology has advanced and artists make the most of it to provide the best experience at their shows.  Artists lean on them to a greater or lesser degree, someone like Madonna now using it fairly heavily but Dua I don’t think was, it sounded great but not completely polished and you could hear duff notes or where she was nearly out of breath often throughout the set.

People just like to tear down artists (especially female artists) for the clicks these days, which is sad.

 

[MEGABOWL]

Proper Noel Gallagher discussion this one

[Watergirl]

I still don't like it. I know smaller acts need to resort to it because they can't afford to bring all the musicians, but I'd rather have an adapted version of a song played by just who is on stage.  If I wanted to hear everyone who is on the original recording I could listen to a record.

 

I enjoyed Afriquoi, but when I started hearing voices that weren't coming from people on stage, that took away from it a bit in my view.  Same Coldplay.  Just play things with the musicians that are there.  Although I enjoyed Coldplay, I'd rather not have had the Korean boy band and Burna Boy singing on a screen.

[tarw]

I’d rather backing tracks than the ginger one taking a tediously long time making loops. 

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

No one gives a sh*t when songs featuring artists that aren't in attendance have the songs filled in with a backing track. Dave for example in 2019 for Thiago Silva. Never mind the Alex lad, but what was Dave meant to do for the rest of the song? Just leave it empty?

 

It's a show, most of which are outdoors with imperfect conditions.

 

I watched this guy critique Dua in a different video and he admitted that she was singing, but with a backing track there as well for support. No one cares though. Why should they? People just want to have fun on a Friday night watching Dua. It's not like the backing track makes Dua who she is and what she's doing on stage. It makes no difference. People are there to see her regardless. If her popularity was only down to a backing track, I would find that weirder, but it's not though.

 

No need to get all puritanical about it.

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

5 hours ago, soundofeverything said:

I was aware that a lot of performers use backing tracks these days and often what's advertised as "live" isn't exactly that. So was watching out for it at the acts I saw. 

 

It was pretty clear Confidence Man was pretty much all performance, with very little actually "live" in there. Even Dexys were using a guitar & bass backing track. 

 

This video gives some background & examples. 

 

 

Yeah in Con Man it is very obvious that Sugar Bones isn't doing a lot of heavy lifting vocally.  Even in the male dominant song Don't You Know I'm In A Band the vocal sounds identical to the recorded version.

 

But he doesn't really try to hide it as you can hear him shouting over the lyrics into his mic.

 

Maybe he's tried it live but just doesn't work.

 

Janet Planet seems to be mostly live but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a mix of recorded and live.

 

No idea how much the bee keeper producer does with his keys and knob twiddling.

 

Drummer seems live but again could be mixed with recording.

 

Still had a great time seeing them and going to their Brixton gig in December.

Edited July 9 by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs

[soundofeverything]

Seems there's an interesting range of views on this one. Clearly, the use of backing tracks and other enhancements very common in the live music scene these days and the level to which the paying customer accepts it is a matter of personal choice.

 

Confidence Man is an interesting example. The on stage vocals were mostly miming, but I guess people can be aware of that and can still enjoy the show. I watched and enjoyed Orbital, but have no idea how much was actually live, possibly not much. 

 

Not Glasto as such but I understand that the Eagles recent tour all the backing vocals/harmonies are pre recorded and at least some of the time Don Henley was miming. That doesn't seem right to me, but others may be fine with that. 

 

I noticed Beth Ditto told the audience when she signing to a (vocal) backing track. 

[Alex DeLarge]

21 hours ago, soundofeverything said:

This video gives some background & examples. 

 

 

Just because someone has a camera and YouTube account, it doesn't mean their opinion has value.

[Yokel Again]

I think the way music is made these days contributes to this... primarily on a lap top, digitally, with plug ins etc. The most affordable way to reproduce all of these stuff live is to bring along said lap top, play what can be played live, and leave the rest chugging along with the click track. Even just the most basic of backing could allow you to be able to tour with a couple of less musicians, which could be a massive saving for an artist who is already being screwed every which way. 

 

The progression in live sound these days (like all tech) is astounding. 

 

Although, personally, I do find it disappointing when there is no live musicianship. I love watching to see what the band are playing, and how they are playing it. When there's someone just dancing infront of a screen its' not the same TO ME. But appreciate I am probably old fashioned in this. 

 

Little Simz was amazing (watched at home), but part of me did think how much more amazing it would have been to have a massive live band with strings etc ...  although I hate starting to sound like an old man....

 

 

[DeanoL]

16 hours ago, MEGATRONICMEATWAGON said:

No one gives a sh*t when songs featuring artists that aren't in attendance have the songs filled in with a backing track. Dave for example in 2019 for Thiago Silva. Never mind the Alex lad, but what was Dave meant to do for the rest of the song? Just leave it empty?

Get someone in to do those bits. Or do them yourself? 

 

I agree they don't have to, but there's options.

 

I saw Paul Heaton on tour when Jackie fell ill mid-tour. They didn't just use a backing track. I doubt that ever even crossed their mind. The drummer and bass player sang some of Jackie's parts, and Paul sang Rotterdam himself.

 

I guess I'm just from a generation that love stuff like that. I love it when the song sounds different to the album because of the challenges of performing it live. I actively prefer that. If I want it to sound just like it does on the record I can listen to the record. The joy is in seeing it recreated in a live environment.

 

But then I get that for acts like Dua Lipa, the joy of the live performance is actually in the "show" - the dancing, the choreography, the lighting and so on... they're very different beasts. (And frankly why I suspect we'll never have a consensus of an act like that on the Pyramid being brilliant because the sightlines aren't great and lots of people there won't be able to really experience that part of it.)

[Looother]

I was surprised at the prevalence of backing tracks, and I'm not a fan. When I go to see live music I expect the music to be live. I'm there to see something being (re)created in the moment, and accept - and delight in - any imperfection that involves. I couldn't be less interested in the idea of watching someone, however famous, mime a song, however good. Some pop acts, people like Camilla Cabello or Anne-Marie or Sugababes, might be able to get away with singing along to a backing track but Glastonbury is not the Radio 1 Roadshow.

 

Surprises included Remi Wolf, who had a live drummer, a guitarist, and a lot of other sounds coming from nowhere - I can listen to recorded versions of her music whenever I want without leaving home, and I've shelved plans to go to her solo tour in December as a result. I left Arlo Parks' set on BBC Introducing - she seemed to be relying heavily on prerecorded vocals for some songs, and I didn't want to hear them. i understand artists' desire to make their music sound as good as possible, particularly if they're being televised, but a stage is not a studio and I don't expect, or want, the sounds produced there to be identical.

[Pipine]

I’d still expect singers who are putting on a big performance with lots of energetic choreography etc to sing live most of the time, but with support from backing singers and sometimes a backing track.  Usually the backing track seems to come in more in choruses where the song tends to become multilayered anyway with more harmonies etc. and that seems fair use of the technology to me.  

 

I enjoyed confidence man but their blatant heavy reliance on backing tracks does detract from the performance somehow.. I’ve never been able to figure out how seriously they want to be taken! 
 

I’m still rewatching Dua, it’s such a good show, and surprised anyone could miss the breathlessness at the end of most lines,  I’d like to see the Honest Vocal Coach dissect her performance , I’m pretty sure she’d confirm she’s singing live and would have some comments about the notes she missed or the improvements she could make to her breath control. 

[Johnnyseven]

2 hours ago, soundofeverything said:

I watched and enjoyed Orbital, but have no idea how much was actually live, possibly not much. 

 

The parts are all programmed but sent to the synths/drum machines they have on stage with them so the sound can be manipulated in real time. They also control when each of the track parts come in and out and they can extend any section of the tracks depending on how the crowd reacts. You may also occasionally see Paul play one of the synths. It's not quite a press play and go situation as they have to control when each part in the track is played and they can mess around with how they sound and add effects etc. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Justice were both down at the front row pressing the flesh and high firing folk for the entirety of their last track.  Likewise DJ Provai spent more time in the crowd than behind the equipment during Kneecap's sets.

[gigpusher]

I think it's a bit horses for courses in the first place. I can see why you'd be annoyed if a band has for years always played live and suddenly they start using backing tracks, miming etc because it's not what you are expecting to see. I remember the backlash when Ian Brown did his tour with just a backing track.

 

For other up and coming artists I understand the economic necessity of it. For big pop acts with complicated dance routines I understand some backing track elements being required.

 

I personally like a live element and for me that is usually the voices someone interacting with the crowd. I know I don't usually enjoy electronic acts that don't have a lie vocal as I personally don't appreciate what they are doing live and it feels to me like they could just press play on a record.

[clarkete]

2 hours ago, Looother said:

Surprises included Remi Wolf, who had a live drummer, a guitarist, and a lot of other sounds coming from nowhere - I can listen to recorded versions of her music whenever I want without leaving home, and I've shelved plans to go to her solo tour in December as a result.

 

Clearly you were a bit of an outlier, I didn't know them before but went with a friend from Efests.   I'm on old git, but could see they have a large and youthful (compared to me) following and they went down an absolute storm, indeed the three folks there put on a cracking show. 

 

For the broader subject, when we know many bands are struggling to make any money and festivals are dropping like flies that now isn't the time to be precious about whether there's a full band - sure enjoy it when it's there or speculate about singers miming, in the meantime all I did was click on the video long enough to downvote him 😂

 

Edited July 10 by clarkete

[soundofeverything]

1 hour ago, Johnnyseven said:

 

The parts are all programmed but sent to the synths/drum machines they have on stage with them so the sound can be manipulated in real time. They also control when each of the track parts come in and out and they can extend any section of the tracks depending on how the crowd reacts. You may also occasionally see Paul play one of the synths. It's not quite a press play and go situation as they have to control when each part in the track is played and they can mess around with how they sound and add effects etc. 

That's interesting, thanks