Singing / performing live (or not)

[clarkete]

11 hours ago, HotChipWillBreakYourLegs said:

 

Giving more money to Spotify is not necessarily the right answer.

 

 

Nor is it what @gigpusher believes. 

 

I know from other subjects they very much live up to their nick in terms of attending many gigs - especially up and coming artists and independent venues, as well as buying vinyl, merchandise, using services that pay better compensation.   

 

Honestly it's tiring how principled they are 😉

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

13 hours ago, clarkete said:

 

Nor is it what @gigpusher believes. 

 

I know from other subjects they very much live up to their nick in terms of attending many gigs - especially up and coming artists and independent venues, as well as buying vinyl, merchandise, using services that pay better compensation.   

 

Honestly it's tiring how principled they are 😉

 

Sure he's great at supporting live music.

 

My point was more focused on Spotify and how they should be better at paying the artists that make them money.

[gigpusher]

On 7/14/2024 at 6:49 AM, HotChipWillBreakYourLegs said:

 

Giving more money to Spotify is not necessarily the right answer.

 

Changing their remuneration model for paying artists definitely is.

 

13 hours ago, clarkete said:

 

Nor is it what @gigpusher believes. 

 

I know from other subjects they very much live up to their nick in terms of attending many gigs - especially up and coming artists and independent venues, as well as buying vinyl, merchandise, using services that pay better compensation.   

 

Honestly it's tiring how principled they are 😉

Yes lol definitely wasn't suggesting more money to Spotify as the solution seeing as I personally don't give them a penny. It was more pointing out that for the majority of people that is the sum total of their expenditure on music and we know that means very little actually ends up in the artists pocket.

 

It's more that people need to accept that the problems in music don't exist in a vacuum. Artists need to make a living and that means smaller touring entourages for some, it means that high profile performances need to look perfect for others. If they all made wads of cash and it was acceptable that they publicly fail occasionally then things could be different but until the majority are willing to spend more money (that actually gets to the artist - so for now that means going to smaller gigs, buying vinyl and merch but we should be actively looking at how we fix streaming) then we need to accept that there are economic forces at play in these situations.

 

 

[Johndenis]

On 7/12/2024 at 12:38 PM, Wooderson said:

 

U2 have always had keyboard/laptop boffins "under the stage". When I saw Fleetwood Mac, Mick had an additional drummer (!) playing along under the stage out of sight.

I've never seen confirmation of just how many folk U2 have under the stage.  2 at least?  They don't seem to have ever become known U2 personnel in their own right like e.g. the Edge's guitar tech.

 

When Coldplay do Vida la Vida, there's amazing pantomime going on with the drums.  The drummer is miming an electronic kick drum with, I think, a pair of snares.  And hitting the world's smallest bell for the huge gong sounds.

 

Folk moaned that Dua Lipa was miming and moaned when she was pitchy (e.g. with Tame Impala).  Can't have it both ways.  Great show imo though the exclusion of Dance The Night was weird - there's a story there but I don't know what it is.

Edited July 16 by Johndenis

[DeanoL]

9 minutes ago, Johndenis said:

I've never seen confirmation of just how many folk U2 have under the stage.  2 at least?  They don't seem to have ever become known U2 personnel in their own right like e.g. the Edge's guitar tech.

 

When Coldplay do Vida la Vida, there's amazing pantomime going on with the drums.  The drummer is miming an electronic kick drum with, I think, a pair of snares.  And hitting the world's smallest bell for the huge gong sounds.

Miming or disguised e-drums used to trigger the samples?

 

There's a really good piece on this here: https://doublechorus.substack.com/p/039-a-finger-drumming-revolution and how many of the tools have always existed but it's taken a new generation of act to make them part of a live show.

[Wooderson]

Coldplay have a huge amount of "assistance" yep.

[Pipine]

I assumed Dua didn’t play Dance the Night because of the copyright issue, does the film company own the rights? 
Or maybe it’s too hard to sing well live.. since she was most definitely singing live..

[OllieMadd]

On 7/12/2024 at 12:49 PM, CaledonianGonzo said:

I guess the poster children for keeping it real are the Stones, who fly by the seat of their pants every time - and thus can swing from thrilling boogie nirvana to total trainwreck with predictable regularity.

Not to be a total pedant - but the drums for Sympathy have been a backing track for a long time.*

 

*Although of course Charlie / Steve then start playing along with them to augment 

 

 

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

12 hours ago, Pipine said:

I assumed Dua didn’t play Dance the Night because of the copyright issue, does the film company own the rights? 
Or maybe it’s too hard to sing well live.. since she was most definitely singing live..

 

My theory is that she doesn't want to be known for that song / movie as her catalogue stands up on its own right.

[Avalon_Fields]

18 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Miming or disguised e-drums used to trigger the samples?

 

There's a really good piece on this here: https://doublechorus.substack.com/p/039-a-finger-drumming-revolution and how many of the tools have always existed but it's taken a new generation of act to make them part of a live show.

Fascinating, thank you, and at least it’s demonstrating human talent not just the tool doing the work.

[CaledonianGonzo]

2 hours ago, OllieMadd said:

Not to be a total pedant - but the drums for Sympathy have been a backing track for a long time.*

 

*Although of course Charlie / Steve then start playing along with them to augment 

 

 

Yup - and the vocals at the start.  Also the cowbell on Honky Tonk Women.

[Wooderson]

Chaotic sound the Stones make is now part of the schtick. Vividly remember "2000 Light Years" at The G feeling Mick is in a different band to the rest of these fellas here.

[Johndenis]

21 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Miming or disguised e-drums used to trigger the samples?

 

There's a really good piece on this here: https://doublechorus.substack.com/p/039-a-finger-drumming-revolution and how many of the tools have always existed but it's taken a new generation of act to make them part of a live show.

Thanks very much for this, very interesting indeed.  How did you find this blog?

 

Still pretty sure the Coldplay drummer is just miming.  There are, in addition to the wrong drums and a tiny bell, drum fills that come from nowhere 🙂

 

To repay the favour, Here's Bob Lefsetz (a recent discovery for me) on the Stones' recent live show, and why they sound so wonky live (esp at start of gigs) - https://lefsetz.com/wordpress/2024/07/15/the-stones-at-sofi/

[Johndenis]

15 hours ago, Pipine said:

I assumed Dua didn’t play Dance the Night because of the copyright issue, does the film company own the rights? 
Or maybe it’s too hard to sing well live.. since she was most definitely singing live..

Copyright would have no effect or restriction on a live performance.  And I think part of the recording (which, yes, is subject to copyright) was still used during a costume change?  Definitely an artistic choice but a fairly weird one to exclude one of your biggest hits when you're performing your biggest headline slot ever.  

[DeanoL]

12 minutes ago, Johndenis said:

Thanks very much for this, very interesting indeed.  How did you find this blog?

 

Have been a fan of Chris' since seeing him open for Ben Folds and The Divine Comedy in 2002 as Chris T-T - he had a couple of minor indie hits in the late 90s. He's since given up performing his own stuff but still works in music doing production, and plays keys in Jim Bob's band.

 

Those live shows are also kinda fascinating as well, Jim was half of Carter USM who were briefly huge (and headlined Glasto in 1992). Carter were an indie rock duo who used drum machines, samples and backing tracks extensively when playing live. I'd say nobody complained back then but I suspect they did in the letters pages of NME, we just didn't have the internet.

Anyway, now he does Carter songs as part of his "solo" gigs backed by a 5-piece backing band, so they're arguably the "live-est" those songs have ever been performed!

[4AssedMonkey]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

Have been a fan of Chris' since seeing him open for Ben Folds and The Divine Comedy in 2002 as Chris T-T - he had a couple of minor indie hits in the late 90s. He's since given up performing his own stuff but still works in music doing production, and plays keys in Jim Bob's band.

 

Those live shows are also kinda fascinating as well, Jim was half of Carter USM who were briefly huge (and headlined Glasto in 1992). Carter were an indie rock duo who used drum machines, samples and backing tracks extensively when playing live. I'd say nobody complained back then but I suspect they did in the letters pages of NME, we just didn't have the internet.

Anyway, now he does Carter songs as part of his "solo" gigs backed by a 5-piece backing band, so they're arguably the "live-est" those songs have ever been performed!

 

I think the difference with Carter is that Jimbob & Fruitbat never made any assertion that they were anything else than vocals/guitar over a backing track, so in that regard they were totally honest and weren't trying to dupe their audience.

 

That said, still put a proper shift in live and were great gigs.  Seeing Carter in Brixton is still in my top 3 moshpits ever.  The broken nose/black eye combo didn't even take the edge off.  Some of the most chaotic fun I've ever had.

[Ninety9]

2 hours ago, Johndenis said:

Copyright would have no effect or restriction on a live performance.  And I think part of the recording (which, yes, is subject to copyright) was still used during a costume change?  Definitely an artistic choice but a fairly weird one to exclude one of your biggest hits when you're performing your biggest headline slot ever.  

Correct, about midway through the set there was a breakdown section and we were teased with some of the lyrics but that was it

[clarkete]

7 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Yup - and the vocals at the start.  Also the cowbell on Honky Tonk Women.

 

Ooh you tease